Calvinism is Gospel !

[HeIsHere]

It says they were given the right to BECOME children of God. They were not children of God, yet they believed.

Just know John 1:12-13 is another go to verse by the T-crew.

But note the verse before ....

He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

The be an honest interpreter of scripture one must take into account the context!!

The connection back to the OT is imperative! This is not about one's personal will, you will notice that Calvinists hyper-individualize text to suit their system.

• not of blood = being a descendant or blood relative of Abraham (Rom. 9:7)
• nor of the will of the flesh = being one who “pursued” or “ran after” the law so as to merit righteousness (Rom. 9:31)
• nor of the will of man = being married or in anyway connected to the patriarchal head

The apostle is telling the Jews that their blood line is not the access to salvation!

The attempt to dumb down scripture is often in play for those who are making it fit a schema.

Even from the commentators....

Albert Barnes – “Nor of the will of man – This may refer, perhaps, to the will of man in adopting a child, as the former phrases do to the natural birth; and the design of using these three phrases may have been to say that they became the children of God neither in virtue of their descent from illustrious parents like Abraham, nor by their natural birth, nor by being “adopted” by a pious man.”

John Gill – “…nor of the will of man: of the best of men, as Abraham, David, and others; who, though ever so willing and desirous, that their children, relations, friends, and servants, should be born again, be partakers of the grace of God, and live in his sight, yet cannot effect any thing of this kind: all that they can do is to pray for them, give advice, and bring them under the means of grace; but all is ineffectual without a divine energy.”

 

[biblestudent78]

Free willers largely do not believe this. However, believing what the Bible explicitly articulates
means you will be called a Calvinist among other things abusive perverts choose to lie about.

Of the 235 million Christians in America, about 1.5 million believe the strict Calvinism you express. All who only use biblical snippets craft an imaginary Christian faith of their own creation.

 

[biblestudent78]

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2

.

Not the Calvinistic belief. But I agree with the sentiment of this verse.

 

[HeIsHere]

Of the 235 million Christians in America, about 1.5 million believe the strict Calvinism you express. All who only use biblical snippets craft an imaginary Christian faith of their own creation.

I read somewhere maybe on CC or a podcaster, their churches are in big trouble, some attendance has dropped significantly over the past generation.

Makes sense .. it has been dismantled by modern day scholars quite effectively who actually read Koine Greek unlike Augustine and self-taught John Calvin.

 

[biblestudent78]

I think you fully understand. When you were saved, was it TULIP that you were taught that lead you to a saving knowledge and godly sorrow? Or was it the preaching of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Actually, if you believed in "predestination" then the Jesus story must seem very strange. If you are chosen for salvation before the earth was formed, then there is absolutely no need for Jesus. You do not need forgiveness of anything. God determined that before you were born. If, on the other hand, if you were predestined for hell then Jesus was powerless to save you because He did the will of His Father.

 

[PennEd]

Of course that was in Romans, more specifically Romans 2 v 16, and Scripture haters especially despise Romans.

Boy, if they hate Roman’s 2:16, they must despise chapter 9!

Romans 9 NKJV

18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Magenta]

Of the 235 million Christians in America, about 1.5 million believe the strict Calvinism you express. All who only use biblical snippets craft an imaginary Christian faith of their own creation.

I am not a Calvinist, I am a Bible believing Christian who is regularly slandered
by those who contradict and deny what the Bible explicitly articulates. Some of
these people go beyond their usual slander to blaspheme God. It is disgusting.

Eh, what do you do, quote the whole Bible each and every time?

 

[Magenta]

Boy, if they hate Roman’s 2:16, they must despise chapter 9!

Romans 9 NKJV

18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Yes, they do hate chapters eight and nine especially. I have seen it repeated again and again
that inability is not in the Bible, when it is plain as day... for those with eyes to see. But then
one of those same people claims God is not required at all in the process of coming to believe.

Romans 8 v 5-9 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[HeIsHere]

The sower and the soils teaches that the state of a person’s heart has a bearing on the word, showing it can be squashed or accepted.

To believe that the states of the hearts in the parable are that way due to divine action, is eisegesis.

 

[Magenta]

Actually, if you believed in "predestination" then the Jesus story must seem very strange. If you are chosen for salvation before the earth was formed, then there is absolutely no need for Jesus. You do not need forgiveness of anything. God determined that before you were born. If, on the other hand, if you were predestined for hell then Jesus was powerless to save you because He did the will of His Father.

If you could obey the commandments, then what need did you have of Jesus? Eh, well, I guess
you have not heard of, or at least you are clueless about, the natural man, since we all started
out as one, a child of wrath, hostile to God, but these Biblical truths are regularly denied and
mocked. It also seems you are ignorant of the parable of the seeds. Please read the Bible.

 

[Magenta]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[Magenta]

All who only use biblical snippets craft an imaginary Christian faith of their own creation.

How many verses do you use when you quote the bible? Do you quote whole books at once, whole chapters at once,
whole paragraphs at once, the whole Bible? Tell me what is acceptable and I will let you know if I agree or not.

But I bet you do the very same thing you pretend is unacceptable.

Although the truth is that giving parallel verses is a proper hermeneutic.

 

[HeIsHere]

Actually, if you believed in "predestination" then the Jesus story must seem very strange. If you are chosen for salvation before the earth was formed, then there is absolutely no need for Jesus. You do not need forgiveness of anything. God determined that before you were born. If, on the other hand, if you were predestined for hell then Jesus was powerless to save you because He did the will of His Father.

Well the Calvinist would say that although they are chosen/created for salvation, I have been told, they still need to be regenerated and this can only happen because of the work of Christ Jesus.

But do they have the responsibility of belief in the truth, no they can not, God created all fallen men to be unable and only to hate Him.

So belief/faith comes after being born from above/regenerated.

So the message of the Good News is required as a Post Hoc event, after the spontaneous event of being born again, then and only then is Good News necessary, which makes no absolute sense for sure!

 

[biblestudent78]

I read somewhere maybe on CC or a podcaster, their churches are in big trouble, some attendance has dropped significantly over the past generation.

Makes sense .. it has been dismantled by modern day scholars quite effectively who actually read Koine Greek unlike Augustine and self-taught John Calvin.

There are at least 5 forces at play in the rapid decline in Church attendance in North America.
1. Divisions driven by politics
2. Divisions driven by issues of human sexuality
3. The rise of the internet where people stay home and catch something "religious" from time to time and find alternate information.
4. The rapid rise of "The prosperity gospel
5. The intellectual conflict most of the educated young feel between and sciences and "inerrant" bible.

We all wax eloquent over arcane battles over the same theological disagreements thousands of years old. But they have little or nothing to do with the rapid demise in Christianity in North America. The vast majority of "what we claim to believe as true religion and biblical Christianity is prepackaged hand-me-down artifacts from a cast of ancient and medieval men we've never heard of.

IMHO the fundamental reason modern Christianity is in decline in North America is because nobody ever sees Christianity outside a church building. We are not the lovers, healers, reconciliation delivers, servants and living examples of Jesus. Seems to me, that we are OK with a Christianity that is pure theology, all mental and occasionally briefly emotional but always driven by the false hope we can live selfishly and be indistinguishable from pagans and heathens if we just believe right, all is forgiven. If we are honest. Our deepest concerns are not for the "errant" theology of all the other Christians but for our selfish unconverted and unrepentant lives. Christianity was never about theology. It was about conforming our lives day by day toward the image of the Jesus who came to show us how to live, love, sacrifice and succeed in this life and the one to come.

 

[Magenta]

The proper ordo salutis begins with God, not man as some insist.

But then we have free willers claiming for God to act unilaterally makes
Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will,
and the offer of repentance fraudulent. "Free will" is an idol to such people.

I glorify God, not myself, unlike those claiming they could do what Scripture says they could not.

 

[brightfame52]

They were not children of God, yet they believed.

Yes they are.. He gathers them in by the call before they believe Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Arent His Lost unbelieving Sheep still His Sheep before they hear and believe ? Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Same difference, Sheep are another name for Children of God

 

[Thaddeus]

Setting aside the argument of whether calvanism is the gospel. Im not sure how effective a preacher of calvanism would be in street preaching. They could call out to passers by:
''God has ordained most of you go to hell, but some of you can be saved because you are chosen''

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 4 verses 3-4 ~ 2 Corinthians 4 verse 4 ~ Even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, Who is the image of God.

 

[biblestudent78]

Well the Calvinist would say that although they are chosen/created for salvation, I have been told, they still need to be regenerated and this can only happen because of the work of Christ Jesus.

But do they have the responsibility of belief in the truth, no they can not, God created all fallen men to be unable and only to hate Him.

So belief/faith comes after being born from above/regenerated.

So the message of the Good News is required as a Post Hoc event, after the spontaneous event of being born again, then and only then is Good News necessary, which makes no absolute sense for sure!

If we are saved before birth why as this "need to change?" You're going to heaven! Live it up. Live with gusto. You have nothing to lose and certainly no driving reason to be anything other than the saved person God created you to be. Why all this talk about "regeneration" whatever that means. Those born heaven bound need nothing from anybody or anything. If you were born saved, what relevance is Jesus? You already have salvation. What has Jesus got to offer you that you need?

 

[HeIsHere]

There are at least 5 forces at play in the rapid decline in Church attendance in North America.
1. Divisions driven by politics
2. Divisions driven by issues of human sexuality
3. The rise of the internet where people stay home and catch something "religious" from time to time and find alternate information.
4. The rapid rise of "The prosperity gospel
5. The intellectual conflict most of the educated young feel between and sciences and "inerrant" bible.

We all wax eloquent over arcane battles over the same theological disagreements thousands of years old. But they have little or nothing to do with the rapid demise in Christianity in North America. The vast majority of "what we claim to believe as true religion and biblical Christianity is prepackaged hand-me-down artifacts from a cast of ancient and medieval men we've never heard of.

IMHO the fundamental reason modern Christianity is in decline in North America is because nobody ever sees Christianity outside a church building. We are not the lovers, healers, reconciliation delivers, servants and living examples of Jesus. Seems to me, that we are OK with a Christianity that is pure theology, all mental and occasionally briefly emotional but always driven by the false hope we can live selfishly and be indistinguishable from pagans and heathens if we just believe right, all is forgiven. If we are honest. Our deepest concerns are not for the "errant" theology of all the other Christians but for our selfish unconverted and unrepentant lives. Christianity was never about theology. It was about conforming our lives day by day toward the image of the Jesus who came to show us how to live, love, sacrifice and succeed in this life and the one to come.

It is complex for certain, they all have had an impact but I would say the rise of dispensationalism over the past 100 years which has caused "checking out mentality" is the prime and most pressing problem.