Calvinism is Gospel !
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I think the idea of human rationale of the term " predestination." and The Idea if I am chosen for salvation and some would say others are not, is a game of making a group elite over others when Grace is to all. How do you reconcile God's election for you and not your wife or children? Is the mind-set to be " I was predation by God to be saved" but my wife not so much.
I see you reject sound Biblical teachings, and worse, promote the opposite of Scripture.
PS~ Regeneration is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit of granting spiritual life
to sinners. This is not a work in which man contributes, but is a work of God alone.
Saint Augustine (354–430 AD) did not have a strong command of Greek, particularly in his youth, but he did eventually acquire enough proficiency to consult Greek texts, such as the Septuagint and Greek commentators, as his career progressed. While he famously struggled with and hated learning the language as a child, leading to a lifelong limitation in his ability to read it fluently, he was not entirely ignorant of it.
John Calvin was an excellent Greek scholar who possessed a high proficiency in the original language of the New Testament. As a trained Renaissance humanist, he insisted on studying the scriptures in their original languages (ad fontes) and frequently consulted Greek texts for his commentaries and sermons. He could also read Hebrew.
The rapid decline in Church attendance in North America is widespread. There are about 3.5 million fewer Baptists attending church and Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian and Episcopal churches show continuing declines in attendance as well. Approximately 4,000 Protestant churches closed in the United States in 2024, according to a report from Lifeway Research, based on data analysis from 35 denominations. While thousands of new churches are planted annually, in 2024, closures outpaced openings by roughly 200, representing a continuing trend of decline for many older congregations. Those growing fastest are Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Seventh Day Adventists, Pentecostals, and Non-Denominal churches although much of their "growth" is from those leaving denominations.
More denial of what Scripture teaches. Nobody is born saved.
Perhaps since you are clueless about regeneration, you could read up on what being born again means.
Being born again is a must.
Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verse 21 and 2 verse 13; Ephesians 2 verse 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verse 6 and 2 verse 13
Chris Fischer did a video criticizing Calvin's use of Greek in that as per the usual he used the Greek to shoehorn in his preconceived ideas he had adopted from his adoration of Augustine.
But a general search online will praise his capabilities.
So yes he could read the Greek and Hebrew he still was nowhere near in training as someone like Theodore Beza.
Pure human intellect and reasoning.
Certainly not how the Spirit would interpret God’s Sovereign Election.
I too see a distinctly unchristian shadow moving around where you are concerned. I'm sorry you are exposed to it.
I'm here to be exposed to all thoughts and Christian beliefs. I have respect and appreciate most for those who contend but disagree with me. I assume all motives are honorable. IMHO the smallest and most limiting vessel of Christian thought is a dogma. That is a set of religious ideas that may not be violated. Realistically, nobody has original dogmas. They come from our church, or parents, our spouses etc. The sad effect of dogmas is that it requires the bible to conform and support those dogmas and we spend most all our scriptural education justifying them. It causes us to constrain God in our unique bottle.
Anyone who know the history of Christianity - and the Hebrew Bible for that matter - knows that from the very start honest people truly seeking God have had to contend with numerous other Christian ideas of God's will. Early on these were just traditional points of view in a given region around the Mediterranean. As the early Church experience periodic political persecutions they banded more closely together even though their understanding of Christianity varied. Many of the early churches met in houses usually before dawn or after dark. Many of those hosting home churches were women. Many attendees were slaves. We know from history that they had a communal meal, sang songs and prayed. Their fundamental faith was that Jesus would return soon and redeem them.
And then Christianity, or the vast majority of it - was captured by the Roman Government. Christianity became the religion of the State. The State controlled much of what became of an evolving christianity that even took on the organization of the State. It became hierarchical and modeled the Roman Government which became an inseparable union. The Church became rich....very rich, partly from the partitioners but mostly from land and buildings provided by the State. The Church became an independent state of its own. And the Church became over time more and more corrupt. It split east and west with the Roman Catholic Church in the west and the Eastern Orthodox Church in the east.
The Protestant movement started and an internal revolt against corruption in the Church. Everything we believe today in our non-catholic world are concepts crafted during the next 250 yrs as Protestant Christianity split and split and split each finding unique takes on important biblical theology. Their defense - against other Protestant churches and the Roman Catholic church evolved virtually all the dogmas we believe in today. The preaching on the American Frontier caused our most famous pastors and preachers to simplify the Gospel in a way that everyone could personally experience a religious conversion. That led to the rapid evolution of more denominations. Notably, the invention of Premillennialism in the 1830's establish another fissure and later Pentecostalism, Mormonism and 7th Day Adventists along with a host of other christian sects were invented;
All this is to note, hopefully, that today we should feel humbled by those Christians who evolved these many many versions of Christianity. Our response should be to use our unique educational tools to find both grace for ourselves and for those that evolved their Christianity from different traditions. The single, but unfortunate thread, is that each tradition claims the same biblical authority for every dogma they hold most dear.
The challenge is to approach the New Testament and the Hebrew Bible with new eyes. Looking for new insights instead of just more confirmation of whatever dogmas we were taught.
Isn't "God's Sovereign Election" just church talk for saved before birth?
Thank you, I appreciate that, and also the apology @CS1 offered earlier, both are rarities in this environment.
From God’s Perspective?
Sure!
You don’t think God knew/knows those that are His before they are even born?
You may be overcomplicating the gospel: it is not a self-help manual, a political blueprint, or a checklist of rules. At its core, the gospel is a single, simple, objective truth: through the Father’s mercy and grace, Jesus Christ—and Jesus Christ alone—is the complete and exclusive Savior, with all that being Savior entails. Everything else in the Bible explains, confirms, and celebrates that central reality. There is no more to the gospel than that.
[2Co 11:3 KJV]
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[Tit 3:4-7 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
If sound Biblical teaching is follow lock stock and barrel everything that a French philosopher said 500 yr ago, then you are right. I don't think he got it right. The more deeply you dive into his theology the more bizarre it becomes. On one hand God saved you before the earth was created. Great, easy to grasp. I don't believe it but at least is a simple claim. Then he tries to explain why that is "not enough." So we get layers and layers of writings attempting to explain supernatural events and how they impact us now because the belief that you were saved before you were born means the death of any need for any religion and that did not work for a theologian leading a Christian movement. So, now we are saved before we are born, but that is not good enough for God. He needs you to go through a religious experience only in the Church where God does some more work through the Holy Spirit on you.
This is where it get weird for me. On one hand there are those chosen to be saved and they are saved no matter what happens. Then there are those destined by God to go to hell.... but God then God can change His mind. Calvin’s theory of regeneration refers to the sovereign, monergistic work of the Holy Spirit in which God unilaterally grants spiritual life to a spiritually dead sinner, enabling them to believe. Regeneration Precedes Faith: In Calvinism, a person cannot exercise saving faith until they are first born again (regenerated). Because of total depravity, a sinner is spiritually dead and unable to choose God; therefore, God must first change the heart, causing faith to be the fruit or effect of regeneration, rather than its cause.
So first God determined before the world was created that John Doe was going to hell and Jim Smith was going to heaven. That was his Sovereign Will. But for some unknown reason God changes His mind (which itself is a highly controversial idea.) However, it can't because John Does deserves it. John Doe may not even know God changed His mind and is not going to send John Doe to heaven instead of His original plan to send John to hell. Unfortunately, Calvin gives us no clue as to why God changed His mind. Regeneration is a work of God alone. Similar to physical birth, the person being born again does not cooperate with or contribute to the initial impartation of spiritual life. John Doe has no clue. It is described as a "secret operation" of the Holy Spirit on the soul of John Doe totally unknown to John.
So the net is God decides John Doe is going to hell before he is born
God changes His mind for reasons "unknowable"
So God "regenerates" John without his knowledge or awareness
Suddenly John is going to heaven but he is totally unaware.
The not so secret circular logic. John is going to hell at the divine will of God. God then changes His mind and regenerates John. If John knows he is being regenerated then it does not count because then John would be a party in his salvation. So John must not know the Holy Spirit is regenerating him. The sign that John was regenerated is that he is given faith. If John is regenerated but never comes to faith is he actually regenerated? If he comes to faith but loses his faith is he still regenerated. In this scenario, aren't we talking about coming to belief instead of coming to faith? Because faith is all about what you do while belief is just what you claim to believe?
Forcing is often the misrepresentation offered. Free willers pretend the natural man can
do what Scripture says he cannot. I uphold being enabled and am then told I was forced.
What free willers put forth is not Biblical. Do you claim Paul was forced?
Flesh serves the law of sin, for the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! Because everyone born of God overcomes the world. In the mixed up unBiblical theology of the free will crowd, man overcomes the world with his wicked heart and is then born again.
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