Calvinism is Gospel !

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John 18 v 37b John 8 v 47 Matthew 13 v 11b For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice. Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Plus 2 Timothy 1 v 9, He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began.
 
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Sure. People are at different places. The Prodigal Son himself was at different places leaving and returning home. But who orchestrated the events of his life: him or God? Did he arrange a famine?

God fulfills His will within the choices of men. God is much greater than He is ever given credit for.

And this wasn't actually my question. My question was: were the results due to the activity or inactivity of the individuals, or the exercise of power or lack thereof by God?

You seem to believe the first. I believe the second.
Then you must believe that everything that occurs is the will of God. I do not believe this.
 
John Calvin, Advocate of Torture and Execution of His Foes

Calvin did not patiently discuss his differences with people who promoted competing ideas. Calvin requested beheadings, made death threats, and praised God for orchestrating the torture of heretics.

Calvin spelled out his theologically reinforced vengeance in a personal letter:


Calvin believed God made sure criminals didn’t die quickly when tortured. This vengeful attitude and his support for outdated Old Covenant laws that legislated capital punishment for competing theologians that challenged his preferred doctrines look more like ISIS than Jesus.

Personal correspondence and city council records betray John Calvin’s extraordinary influence in Geneva.

Although he was asked to leave in 1538 when he enforced his strict moral standards and pushed for the church’s independent power to excommunicate people, Genevan officials invited him to return in 1541 to resolve church divisions. Upon his return, the city council approved his Ecclesiastical Ordinances that included the establishment of the Consistory.

The Consistory, a church court that oversaw the discipline of the citizens of Geneva, met every Thursday to review cases (This book is a chronicle of the Consistory’s records from 1542-1544.) John Calvin led the court. Although the Consistory did not have the power to imprison, exile, or kill those who were guilty, Calvin could still convince the city magistrates to wield such power when his theological opponents contradicted him.

When Jacques Gruet, a theologian with differing views, placed a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite, he was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547. Gruet's own theological book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.

Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar, suffered a worse fate. He was Calvin's longtime acquaintance who resisted the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. However, he angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's Institutes with critical comments in the margins. So what did Calvin do? You can read his resolution from a personal letter he wrote to a friend:

The next time Servetus attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on a visit, Calvin had him arrested and charged with heresy. The 38 official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. The city magistrates condemned him to death.

Calvin requested that Servetus be beheaded, instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but to no avail, and ultimately he supported killing Servetus and all such heretics.

On October 27, 1553, green wood was used for the fire so Servetus would be slowly baked alive from the feet upward. For 30 minutes he screamed for mercy and prayed to Jesus as the fire worked its way up his body to burn the theology book strapped to his chest as a symbol of his heresy. Calvin summarized the execution this way:


How could such torture be condoned? In November 1552 the Geneva Council declared Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion to be a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against."

Disagreeing with Calvin’s view of God was a violation warranting the death penalty according to the way John Calvin interpreted Leviticus 24:16.

The Geneva city council records describe one verdict where a man who publicly protested against John Calvin’s doctrine of predestination was flogged at all the city’s main intersections and then expelled (“The Minutes Book of the Geneva City Council, 1541-59,” translated by Stefan Zweig, Erasmus: The Right to Heresy).

You did not get to disagree with Calvin in this town.

John Calvin argued:

Most bad Bible interpretation causes disappointment in an unbiblical god, anxiety about what he demands, or a false sense of security rooted in biased beliefs. But it can kill. John Calvin justified murder with his bad Bible interpretation.

People want to pretend they know history and the power structures during the Reformation, it requires years of study,
No matter what you post they will typically stay within their ignorance.

To call Calvin's behaviour "misdeeds" is an attempt to trivialize so in that sense they are handling the historical record very dishonestly.
 
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I agree. Besides, are the people who point to John Calvin's supposed misdeeds claiming that nobody with Arminian or Free Will beliefs has ever been guilty of similar things to those of which they accuse Calvin?

Can you name one?

Have you studied all 26 years that John Calvin lived in Geneva?
 
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Gods Grace was given before the foundations of the earth were laid
1pet :1:19-

19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was Revelation manifest in these last times for you.

Rev 8:13

God grace is the work of the cross for all. God doesn't want any to parish yet there will be those who are not saved. In fact over the time man has been on the earth it is safe to say there are many who were not before they died. However That is only unto GOD who knows not us. Our focus is not on the Elect. The Church is not to boast in election. But in humility and obedience. Gods power is to all. and for all and His grace has been provided for all. Yet there are those who will not be saved.

I hope I answered your question.

Calvinists individualize scripture ... which again is another contextual problem.
 
John18-37b-John8-47-Matthew13-11b.png

John 18 v 37b John 8 v 47 Matthew 13 v 11b For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice. Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Plus 2 Timothy 1 v 9, He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Amen! And add Matt. 12:37.
The reason tulipists do not hear GW is indicated in 2Thes. 2:10.

Scripture ignored/not heard includes:

Re divine omnilove: John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4.

Re God's justness/righteousness: 2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3.

Re perseverance: Gal. 5:4, Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10.

etcetera
 
Not good bible to combine those two verses to make a point. Jesus was praying specifically for his disciples, that much is clear. Jeremiah is referencing Israel at the time of the return of Jesus as King of kings when he establishes his earthly kingdom in Jerusalem.

Right, it is quite something.
I mean one can use the Bible to support/teach anything by using a bunch of verses from here, there and elsewhere!!
 
Then you must believe that everything that occurs is the will of God. I do not believe this.
That's a common refrain, but not true. I don't believe God wills anyone to sin. I don't believe God wills anything against His nature. Allowing things is different from willing things.

You still haven't come to grips with how great God actually is. Perhaps a conversation for another time.
 
Those verses do confirm that we're all born unable to believe, so they're not nonsense. I found the gospel message to be awful and unacceptable, for three years after I first heard it. I wrestled with the idea that God chose His elect before He created the world.

I finally surrendered and allowed God to be sovereign over every aspect of His creation. Prior to that I didn't allow Him to have full control over everything. I wanted to have some control, power and glory for myself, because I thought God would spoil my party. That's the message I'm getting form you now.

Can you find the verse which states all mankind is born unable to believe the Good New of Christ Jesus
 
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I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion but I am sure that it's not true, because the God of the Bible does chose/grant salvation to some and He leaves others dead in their sin.

You obviously don't believe the many scriptures which declare that everyone is born dead in their sin, we're all born spiritually dead, with a fallen sin nature. It's impossible for the natural man to turn from his sin, repent and believe on the Lord Jesus. It goes against his nature, because he loves his sin and hates God.

The only way a natural man could produce saving faith, would be to change his very nature. That means he would need to die and then resurrect himself as a new creature. If you could do that, then you wouldn't need God because you would be your own god.

You know if you had been encountered a different evangelical church at your conversion, you would not believe this way.

We did not inherit Adam's guilt and dead is not synonymous with sin nature.

Can you show me the scripture which clearly states all men are born unable to believe the Gospel?

Even if we can clearly show "born with a sin nature /original sin" as concept affirmed throughout all scripture, that still does not equate to being born with the inability to believe only reject.

There is a constant universal command throughout scripture "to repent and believe in" therefore isolated verses plucked out of context to support a fabricated doctrine which supported by scripture.
 
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Thanks. Now to your question. Is grace offered to all. Yes. I'm sure you are familiar with common grace. God's power is manifest to all in Providence. The sun shines on all as does the rain fall on all. But that isn't what you really want considered. Is grace that saves applied to all? I would suggest that Romans 1:16 teaches against this. While God's power is exercised towards those who come to faith, the same is not stated towards those who do not believe. When I couple this with Isaiah 55:11, which teaches that God's word always accomplishes what it was sent forth to accomplish, a failure of God's word to effect salvation means that God's purpose in sending forth His word isn't always to save. But when it is, He exercises His power to that end.
 
Sealing and indwelling are 2 different things. Seals go on the outside. Indwelling is on the inside. The latter is regeneration. The former is an authentication of the indwelling with outward manifestations.

I thought about it. I'm open to the idea of a seal being different, but considering Ephesians 4:30

Ephesians 4:30

30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

This is a more direct scripture describing the Holy Spirit and linking it up with the seal metaphor. In this verse, it's speaking of the Holy spirit indwelling you. And then it says it's by this grieving Holy spirit, that you have been sealed. I think the seal is a metaphor for security rather than position of it being outside of you.

It is by the Holy spirit that grieves... I'd say that's the indwelling... by which you've been sealed.
 
People want to pretend they know history and the power structures during the Reformation, it requires years of study,
No matter what you post they will typically stay within their ignorance.

To call Calvin's behaviour "misdeeds" is an attempt to trivialize so in that sense they are handling the historical record very dishonestly.
You were replying to a post from Anchorite, who did not mention the word "Misdeeds." That was me. I was using the word in the way I understand it, which is pretty much in line with this AI overview of the word:

"A misdeed (noun) is a bad, immoral, or illegal act. It refers to any action that is considered unethical, wicked, or a violation of rules and laws. [1, 2, 3]

Quick Facts
  • Synonyms: Wrongdoing, offense, crime, sin, transgression, or fault.
  • Usage: Often used in plural form ("misdeeds") when referring to a history of bad behavior (e.g., "paying for past misdeeds").
  • Context: It is a somewhat formal word, most commonly found in news reports, literature, or discussions regarding ethics and justice"

I wasn't "attempting to trivialize" anything, or being dishonest.
 
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Can you name one?
No, but the fact that I am unable to do so is not evidence that out of all the Christians who hold or have held Arminian beliefs, not one ever fell into grievous sin.
Have you studied all 26 years that John Calvin lived in Geneva?
No. I have never claimed to have done so. Indeed, I came to believe the doctrines known by some as "Calvinism" long before I had even heard of a person called John Calvin. My limited knowledge of Calvin himself is the reason I have stayed well clear of the matter of Calvin and Servetus.
 
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You were replying to a post from Anchorite, who did not mention the word "Misdeeds." That was me. I was using the word in the way I understand it, which is pretty much in line with this AI overview of the word:

"A misdeed (noun) is a bad, immoral, or illegal act. It refers to any action that is considered unethical, wicked, or a violation of rules and laws. [1, 2, 3]

Quick Facts
  • Synonyms: Wrongdoing, offense, crime, sin, transgression, or fault.
  • Usage: Often used in plural form ("misdeeds") when referring to a history of bad behavior (e.g., "paying for past misdeeds").
  • Context: It is a somewhat formal word, most commonly found in news reports, literature, or discussions regarding ethics and justice"

I wasn't "attempting to trivialize" anything, or being dishonest.

Well, yes I did not include your exact words "supposed misdeeds."
I will try to be more careful next time.
 
Well, yes I did not include your exact words "supposed misdeeds."
I will try to be more careful next time.
Thanks for that. My point in Post 1094 was that you saw that using the word "misdeeds" somehow trivializing Calvin's acts. As synonyms for "misdeeds" include "sin", "transgression", and "crime", I don't see why you should have thought I was trivializing anything. Anyway, thanks again for your reply.
 
The Book of Romans does not teach TULIP.... no sovereign election for salvation anywhere.

The purpose of Romans 9.

You cannot claim your family lineage as why you should get heaven.

Romans 9:33 KJVS
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offense: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

What the TULIP sect keeps pushing as "Irresistible grace" amounts to God casting a spell (as in witchcraft) upon a person to make that person do his will. The concept is straight from the classroom of the occult of the demonic thinking. It is declaring that God is not really better than Satan.

And, we always wondered why 'irresistible grace' sat wrong with you when someone tried to explain it to you. It is the demonic way of doing things. "Casting Spells" to have someone do your will.

........
 
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Thanks for that. My point in Post 1094 was that you saw that using the word "misdeeds" somehow trivializing Calvin's acts. As synonyms for "misdeeds" include "sin", "transgression", and "crime", I don't see why you should have thought I was trivializing anything. Anyway, thanks again for your reply.

The phrase makes it seem as though his persecution against the innocent people of Geneva were only alleged .. when the historical record shows the opposite.
 
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What the TULIP sect keeps pushing as "Irresistible grace" amounts to God casting a spell (as in witchcraft) upon a person to make that person do his will. The concept is straight from the classroom of the occult of the demonic thinking. It is declaring that God is not really better than Satan.

And, we always wondered why 'irresistible grace' sat wrong with you when someone tried to explain it to you. It is the demonic way of doing things. "Casting Spells" to have someone do your will.

........
It is nothing to do with casting spells or the occult. It is more linked to what we read in the Messianic psalm, Psalm 110:

(Psa 110:1) A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
(Psa 110:2) The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
(Psa 110:3) Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
 
The phrase makes it seem as though his persecution against the innocent people of Geneva were only alleged .. when the historical record shows the opposite.
But I explained in answer to your question, "Have you studied all 26 years that John Calvin lived in Geneva?" My answer was: "No. I have never claimed to have done so. Indeed, I came to believe the doctrines known by some as "Calvinism" long before I had even heard of a person called John Calvin. My limited knowledge of Calvin himself is the reason I have stayed well clear of the matter of Calvin and Servetus." I haven't been arguing one way or the other about whether Calvin Calvin was guilty of putting Servetus to death, and that is why I said "supposed misdeeds", because I know that not everybody believes that he was guilty. Anyway, it now seems as if your attention has switched from my use of the word "misdeeds" to my use of "supposed."
 
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