Calvinism is Gospel !
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Not once does the Bible say the natural man's will is free... in fact, quite the opposite, since he is a slave to sin and captive to to the will of the devil, blinded to truth, opposed to the spiritual things of God, unable/incapable of submitting to God or obeying Him. But in the mind of free willer/Pelagian heretics that is freedom. He hears the gospel as foolishness but the foolishness of free willers is that that person will choose to believe even though Jesus said it is impossible. The natural man can no more change his God hating heart than an Ethiopian can change the colour of his skin or a leopard his spots. He is unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called.
It is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit, and there are none good, no, not one! But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, such as nothing good lives in man's flesh, and flesh serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death, all in favour of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said. In fact they routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated, and really seem unable to stop ascribing to the unregenerated man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that only the regenerated person is in possession of. Some of these people are so liberated in their thinking against Biblical truth that they routinely blaspheme God and freely and repeatedly slander those they disagree with.
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
It is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit, and there are none good, no, not one! But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, such as nothing good lives in man's flesh, and flesh serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death, all in favour of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said. In fact they routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated, and really seem unable to stop ascribing to the unregenerated man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that only the regenerated person is in possession of. Some of these people are so liberated in their thinking against Biblical truth that they routinely blaspheme God and freely and repeatedly slander those they disagree with.
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
Anyone who brings TULIP or Calvin into a discussion on soteriology is either a Calvinist or has CDS.And there is it once again... you do not agree, you have CDS!
Our conversation to that point dealt with scripture, doctrine, and reason. Nothing about TULIP or Calvin. When those things are dragged into a discussion it is almost always because an individual has given up in the arena of ideas and reason, and know they have lost the argument in that arena. It's simple deflection.
So Jesus was wrong in Matthew 20:28 when He said He gave His life a ransom for many?
The title of this thread is “Calvinism is the Gospel!”
How do you not bring TULIP or Calvin into the discussion?
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
2 Corinthians 5:15
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I Timothy 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
These folks are incapable of discussing in good faith. Believing what the Bible explicitly articulates makes you a Calvinist.
You would have to go back and read the discussion. We were discussing being saved by grace and what that entailed. There was no previous reference to Calvin or TULIP. You can read it for yourself.
One of the reasons few profitable discussions actually take place on this site is because people talk past each other. And because many are simply dishonest. They either ignorantly, or more often, deliberately misrepresent others understanding.
You employed 1 John 2:2 and your understanding of the verse is that world includes every person ever conceived or who will be conceived. Yet in Matthew 20:28 Jesus said He gave His life as a ransom for many. How do you reconcile these seemingly antithetical scriptures?
But all these verses are in contrast to Matthew 20:28. How do you reconcile the difference?
You seem to think “many” means “a lot, but not all”.
But “many” could mean “all”.
If you asked me if I had CDs by Joy Electric, I might say, “Yes, many”.
You then ask, “How many?”
I reply, “All of them, every album and EP produced by Ronnie Martin.”
So if it is said that Jesus gave His life as a ransom for many, it can mean everyone, and “many” is used to indicate a vast number.
Try again?
Without God's power to silence our flesh while being given the Gospel no one could believe.
That power is the grace God uses to save a soul.
What does that tell you about the flesh?
........
Flesh serves the law of sin, for the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! Because everyone born of God overcomes the world. In the mixed up unBiblical theology of the free will crowd, man overcomes the world with his wicked heart and is then born again.
Cannot the same be said of all? All can mean everyone included in a particular group. In other words...all the group are made up of many...perhaps many from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
The fact is, many and all are different Greek words with different Greek meanings.
I'm not quibbling over how God saves. I'm establishing that it is through the exercise of God's power is what saves an individual. Salvation is the result of the activity of God alone. The responses of man...faith, repentance, obedience, etc., result from the manifestation of God's power in/on/through an individual.
Well, think of Saul of Tarsus and his conversion. Was he seeking the Lord, or looking for salvation? No, for we read:
(Act 9:1 NKJV) Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest
(Act 9:2) and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
(Act 9:3) As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven.
(Act 9:4) Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Did Saul even try to resist the Lord? Of course not! No wonder he included himself by saying "we" in these verses from Ephesians:
(Eph 2:4 NKJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
(Eph 2:5) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
(Eph 2:6) and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
(Eph 2:7) that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Dead people, whether physically dead, like Lazarus, or dead in trespasses, like Saul and the Ephesian Christians before conversion, are unable to resist anything.
It cannot have been the Jews as a nation, because Jesus said to some Jews:
(Joh 8:42 NKJV) Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
(Joh 8:43) Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
(Joh 8:44) You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Perhaps you are meaning something different by "eschatological" to what I thought the word meant - connected to what are called "the last things." Yes, he certainly mentions future glory, in for example verses 18-25. He then goes back to taking about the present lives of his readers - things like prayer and the Holy Spirit's help in it, God causing all things to work together for the believer's good, and God's constant ant everlasting love, from which nothing can separate the Christian.
It may seem arbitrary to us, but whatever the reason, it was not man's will, but God who brought about the new birth:
(Joh 1:13) who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
But the angel said to Joseph:
(Mat 1:21) And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."
The angel didn't say: "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will do everything needed to save any person wanting to know God."
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