Calvinism is Gospel !

[DavidLamb]

Anyone who brings TULIP or Calvin into a discussion on soteriology is either a Calvinist or has CDS.

Our conversation to that point dealt with scripture, doctrine, and reason. Nothing about TULIP or Calvin. When those things are dragged into a discussion it is almost always because an individual has given up in the arena of ideas and reason, and know they have lost the argument in that arena. It's simple deflection.

Sorry but what is CDS in this context? I looked it up and found three possible meanings for the abbreviation, but none seems to fit here: "Credit-Default Swap," "Computer Design Software" and "Cirque du Soleil." Could it be "Calvinism Denial Syndrome?"

 

[GWH]

We are saved by grace.

This means we are saved by the exercise of God's power.

We are therefore saved by the activity of God; not what we do.

What we do is in response to what God has done.

Yes, God initiates; souls cooperate--or not.

 

[GWH]

These folks are incapable of discussing in good faith. Believing what the Bible explicitly articulates makes you a Calvinist.

Just the opposite. Tulipism corrupts the Gospel, demeaning God's ominlove and justness.

 

[Journey_man]

You are right, she does not believe what Scripture says on that point, she mocks it and tells people to go
preach in cemeteries and then lies about that too... she does not believe God is required at all in the process
of coming to believe, as she is some kind of Darwinian new ager, believing that people have evolved beyond that.

She denies what Scripture says of man to the point where she is a Pelagian heretic.

There are countless opposing versions of the gospel, being preached in Churches around the world. Most preaches don't preach the whole counsel of God, because they're afraid to offend some in their congregation.

The true gospel message is rejected and even hated by many professing Christians, they call it "hate speech". Many preaches avoid preaching about sin and judgement, they throw the true gospel message under the bus, in order to get more bums on seats.

I will pray for that lady, because I know where she is coming from. I also found the true gospel message very hard to accept for a few years after I first heard it.

 

[Journey_man]

She does not believe what the Bible says of man's inability. She denies it is even written when it has been shown to her
multiple times. You cannot force the blind to see or the deaf to hear. They are not interested in what the Bible says.

Most Christian Denominations, teach that everyone is born with a free will. I was raised in a Roman Catholic family, our Parish Priest taught us that were are all like "small gods", and each of us has the potential to do good or evil.
He said that it was his duty to teach us "piety", or how to live a good life. He said we are all born in the image of God, and the Lord Jesus came to show us how to live.

We can't convince anyone to accept spiritual things, by engaging in a philosophical debate. The gospel can't be understood or explained, through the scientific method.

 

[Magenta]

Through no choice of his own, man is born into the human race and lives in his natural state as a child of wrath (Eph 2 v 3), not a child of God (John 3 v 3; Gal 3 v 26; 1 John 2 v 22-23; 1 John 4 v 3; 1 John 1 v 7). He lives his life driven by three main motivators: the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life (1 John 2 v 15-17). He is hostile to/unable to submit to God (Rom 8 v 7), incapable of knowing or understanding the spiritual things of God (1 Cor 2 v 14; Matt 11 v 27), because he does not have the Spirit of God in him required to give Spiritual wisdom (1 Cor 1 v 18). Considering Godly Spiritual things to be foolishness, he rejects God and His Word, which, if left unremedied, will result in his ultimate destruction, having not attained to eternal life (Romans 1 v 18-32; 1 Cor 2 v 11, 14; James 1 v 23-24; 1 Thes 2 v 13-16; 1 Peter 2 v 9-17; Revelation 14 v 9-10; John 3 v 16).

 

[Magenta]

It may seem arbitrary to us, but whatever the reason, it was not man's will, but God who brought about the new birth:

(Joh 1:13) who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Is she still blaspheming God? Telling us He is unfair, that He does things for no good reason?

 

[Journey_man]

Can you find the verse which states all mankind is born unable to believe the Good New of Christ Jesus

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".
Ephesians 2:1 "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,"

Acts 13:48 "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed".

Acts 13:48 answers you question, if you look at the surrounding context of the verse you would find that many were gathered and they all heard the gospel, but only those who (were appointed to eternal life believed). The gospel message was foolishness to the rest.

 

[brightfame52]

..... Jesus had done everything needed to save any person wanting to know God.​

​

What does that tell you? ​

What person did He not save who wanted to know God?​

​

​

.​

Just admit it, you dont believe that Jesus saved them He died for b4 they believed ! See my Faith persuaded me that Jesus Christ death saved me and all for whom He shed His Precious blood. The Jesus of the scripture saves His People, gives them eternal life and the True Knowledge of God Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Jn 5 20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[Magenta]

John 17 verses 2-3 ~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[brightfame52]

God grafted in Gentiles into the vine that Jews had previously only knew, to make Jews rejecting Jesus Christ jealous!

In Rom 8:29 the forekew ones, does it include Gentiles ? Yes or No ?

 

[GWH]

Most Christian Denominations, teach that everyone is born with a free will. I was raised in a Roman Catholic family, our Parish Priest taught us that were are all like "small gods", and each of us has the potential to do good or evil.
He said that it was his duty to teach us "piety", or how to live a good life. He said we are all born in the image of God, and the Lord Jesus came to show us how to live.

We can't convince anyone to accept spiritual things, by engaging in a philosophical debate. The gospel can't be understood or explained, through the scientific method.

Jesus couldn't convince many Jews using his method either (Matt. 13:14-15, 23:37), so what is your point?

 

[Journey_man]

You know if you had been encountered a different evangelical church at your conversion, you would not believe this way.

We did not inherit Adam's guilt and dead is not synonymous with sin nature.

Can you show me the scripture which clearly states all men are born unable to believe the Gospel?

Even if we can clearly show "born with a sin nature /original sin" as concept affirmed throughout all scripture, that still does not equate to being born with the inability to believe only reject.

There is a constant universal command throughout scripture "to repent and believe in" therefore isolated verses plucked out of context to support a fabricated doctrine which supported by scripture.

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." — 1 Corinthians 2:14

This is the verse you're looking for, "natural man" refers to every unconverted/unregenerated man. We are all "natural men", until we are quickened to life, out of our spiritually dead state in which we were born.

The natural/dead man doesn't receive the things of the Spirit of God. He can't know them because dead men know nothing about spiritual things. The believers already have eternal life, the unbelievers are born dead and they remain dead for all eternity, unless they are born again in this life.

 

[Journey_man]

Jesus couldn't convince many Jews using his method either (Matt. 13:14-15, 23:37), so what is your point?

The Lord Jesus never tried to convince anyone to believe anything. Everyone who heard the gospel, either believed or they didn't believe. There was no hi pressure sales tactics required, because God's people were already chosen before the earth was created. God prepared us before we heard it, by giving us the gift of grace and faith.

Unless one receives the gifts of grace and faith before they hear the gospel, it will be foolishness to them and they wouldn't accept it in a billion years. Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. See how that works, you can't believe, unless you have been appointed to eternal life.

 

[GWH]

The Lord Jesus never tried to convince anyone to believe anything. Everyone who heard the gospel, either believed or they didn't believe. There was no hi pressure sales tactics required, because God's people were already chosen before the earth was created. God prepared us before we heard it, by giving us the gift of grace and faith.

Unless one receives the gifts of grace and faith before they hear the gospel, it will be foolishness to them and they wouldn't accept it in a billion years. Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. See how that works, you can't believe, unless you have been appointed to eternal life.

I think the correct understanding of how it works is indicated by 2Thes. 2:10 & 1Tim. 2:3-4 plus the Scripture previously cited that you reject. Wow! What a heretical corruption of the Gospel ala tulipism!

A major blind spot or heresy is known as the doctrine of TULIP (tulipism), which may be described as follows:

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation (contradicting Deut. 30:19, Matt. 7:7, 23:37).
U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement/condition such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell (contradicting Eph. 2:8-10).
L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls (contra John 3:16, Rom. 3:21-5:1).
I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved (cf. Matt, 23:37, 2Thes. 2:10-13).
P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy/blasphemy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved (cf. Heb. 6:4-6, Matt. 12:31).

The orthodox viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) or evangelism/Gospelism (per Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:16, Acts 17:30, Rom. 3:22-26, 1Tim. 2:3-4, 2Pet. 3:9, Tit. 2:11, Col. 1:23, Ezek. 18:23, etc.) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation (Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which presumes/implies sufficient human volition for sinners to make them morally accountable (Rom. 1:20, Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37), who may become totally depraved via committing apostasy/blasphemy against the HS (per Heb. 6:4-6, Matt. 12:31).
F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not because His grace is resistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins (John 3:16-18, Rom. 3:21-5:1, Heb. 9:26-28).
W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on saving faith God’s condition for forgiveness, and cooperating with God by accepting His grace through faith is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws (John 6:29, Eph. 2:8-10).

 

[brightfame52]

We have a powerful motive for defending Calvinism. For one thing, as the Gospel it is the only hope for sinful men - the only power of God unto salvation, the only means of the gathering and preserving of the Church.

Even more compelling, Calvinism glorifies God. The glory of God is the heartbeat of Calvinism, and the heart of hearts of every Calvinist. Calvin's enemies have always seen this and have sneered at him as "that God-intoxicated man." Calvinism gives the magnificent answer to the question, "What is the chief end of man?": "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him for ever." (Westminster Shorter Catechism, Quest. 1). But the glory of God is the goal of the Gospel, that is, the goal of God Himself through the Gospel: "...to the praise of the glory of his grace" (Ephesians 1:6). His glory He will not give to another (Isaiah 42:8). "Of Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things;" to Him, therefore, be glory for ever. (Romans 11:36)

Calvinism is the Gospel

 

[Mem]

TULIP-inists

If only I could've heard your pronouncement of this word.

The person preaching is exercising grace in sharing the word of God. If God exercised grace...power, salvation would have followed. Unless, of course, you believe that when God exercises His power, He fails to accomplish His purpose.

I believe His will is that you freely come to Him, but of course you must do such by grace (such that He provides everything necessary) through faith (that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him, as His Word says)

 

[Journey_man]

I think the correct understanding of how it works is indicated by 2Thes. 2:10 & 1Tim. 2:3-4 plus the Scripture previously cited that you reject. Wow! What a heretical corruption of the Gospel ala tulipism!

A major blind spot or heresy is known as the doctrine of TULIP (tulipism), which may be described as follows:

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation (contradicting Deut. 30:19, Matt. 7:7, 23:37).
U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement/condition such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell (contradicting Eph. 2:8-10).
L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls (contra John 3:16, Rom. 3:21-5:1).
I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved (cf. Matt, 23:37, 2Thes. 2:10-13).
P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy/blasphemy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved (cf. Heb. 6:4-6, Matt. 12:31).

The orthodox viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) or evangelism/Gospelism (per Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:16, Acts 17:30, Rom. 3:22-26, 1Tim. 2:3-4, 2Pet. 3:9, Tit. 2:11, Col. 1:23, Ezek. 18:23, etc.) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation (Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which presumes/implies sufficient human volition for sinners to make them morally accountable (Rom. 1:20, Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37), who may become totally depraved via committing apostasy/blasphemy against the HS (per Heb. 6:4-6, Matt. 12:31).
F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not because His grace is resistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins (John 3:16-18, Rom. 3:21-5:1, Heb. 9:26-28).
W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on saving faith God’s condition for forgiveness, and cooperating with God by accepting His grace through faith is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws (John 6:29, Eph. 2:8-10).

Every point you tried to make is fundamentally flawed, because they're all based on the unbiblical opinions of unlearned or ill informed men.

I won't have enough space here to respond to every one of your baseless objections, so I'll just deal with a few key points.

1 Tim 2:3-4 doesn't refer to every single person, who was alive at the time it was written.
In verse 1, Paul urges believers to pray for "all people," and immediately clarifies in verse 2 that this includes kings and all who are in high positions, all classes, ranks, and nations of people, without distinction of Jew or Gentile. It is a rejection of the idea that salvation is limited only to one group.

You claim that "faith is Gods condition for salvation". But the Bible does not support this view at all, in fact it's the opposite, faith is a gift from God, - Philippians 1:29: For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Faith is described as a privilege "granted" to believers, indicating it is given rather than generated by humans.

Deut 30:19 is not an offer of salvation to all, because only Gods elect respond with faith and obedience because it was given to them to believe. Do you suppose that highly intelligent people choose to spend eternity in hell, while they rejected the free offer of eternal paradise????.

Can you please explain how and or why John 3:16, & Rom 3:21, 5:1 negate "Limited Atonement". The "whosoever" doesn't mean "universalism" as you suggest. It simply means whosoever believes, and we already know that only the elect of God believe because it was given to them (as a gift) to believe.

It would be better to deal with a few verses at a time, rather than a truck load at a time.

 

[John146]

That's a common refrain, but not true. I don't believe God wills anyone to sin. I don't believe God wills anything against His nature. Allowing things is different from willing things.

You still haven't come to grips with how great God actually is. Perhaps a conversation for another time.

You think that God is great by forcing you to be saved? Electing some to salvation and sending others to hell without a chance?

 

[HeIsHere]

Anyone who brings TULIP or Calvin into a discussion on soteriology is either a Calvinist or has CDS.

Our conversation to that point dealt with scripture, doctrine, and reason. Nothing about TULIP or Calvin. When those things are dragged into a discussion it is almost always because an individual has given up in the arena of ideas and reason, and know they have lost the argument in that arena. It's simple deflection.

Did you read the title of this thread.

TULIP and Calvinism are real concepts, CDS is not.