Is The Hope of The Church Only For the Young and Healthy? (What Do We Tell The Sick, The Disabled, and The Elderly?)

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

This is a topic that has weighed heavily on my mind for years, and all the more so as I get older.

Now first of all, OF COURSE God's hope is NOT for just the young and healthy. We all know that (but we'll see how many people answer this thread after only reading the title.)

Second, please DO NOT turn this into a "healing" debate thread in which people argue over whether everyone can/should get healed in this life -- if only they have enough faith. This is just my own belief, but I have seen too many of God's faithful suffer from too many things... And so I personally believe that YES, GOD WANTS ALL TO BE HEALED -- but for some, it will not be until they reach heaven. And this is the perspective I am writing from.

Yes, I could be wrong. But for anyone wanting to debate these topics, the entire forum is open to you and I invite you to write your own thread elsewhere. Thank you!

* In contrast, this thread is asking: Does it seem like the church's resources are often concentrated on the young and healthy? If so, what more can we do for those who don't fit into those categories?

I'm asking this because most everyone I know, whether single or married, is a caretaker for one or several family members who are suffering from: cancer, mentally and/or physical disablement, mental illness, diabetes, dementia, and a myriad of other conditions that require full-time care -- or close to it.

I recently spent time with friends who are in these caretaking positions, doing the best they can, and I couldn't help but notice the sharp contrast between what these families are going through (like sharp, daily arguments due to memory loss) -- and the chipper, upbeat, joyful atmosphere of their churches on Sunday -- because it was the season when they were all celebrating high school and college graduations.

The congregations celebrated these hopeful young lives with cheers and gifts, proudly displaying where they were going to college, along with future degrees and plans.

And while it was joyous to behold, my heart was heavy.

"Lord," I said, "we have these days in the church where we celebrate children, young people, and young families -- but what about all the people who aren't young, who don't have bright futures, and are no longer strong and healthy?" After all, there is no season of the church that celebrates the sick, disabled, or elderly and all they have going on in their lives because of it.

My family is currently going to a church for its many outreaches for the young (as I have several young family members,) but I believe God has called me back to my roots -- a WELS Lutheran church with a mostly elderly population. (Lutheran churches are often called "Heaven's Gates" because they are usually elderly, dying congregations.) One man I chatted with was in a specialized wheelchair because he is partially paralyzed, but his "good" hand tightly gripped mine as we exchanged Sunday pleasantries. It made me think of all the emotional and physical struggles he must have been, and is still going through.

I went home with a heart full of sorrow, and I told God about how troubled I was that we chatter with excitement about the young and healthy -- but what can we say to God's lifelong soldiers who aren't and won't get any better, whether a day or decades from now -- until they reach heaven?

Is this what the Christian life is meant to be? We give everything we have while we're "of worth" -- only to be forgotten, pushed out, and discarded when we're no longer seen as useful?

And so, dear reader, I would like to ask advice from anyone out there who is caring for someone who does not fit into the "young and healthy" category -- or does not fit into that category themselves.

* What can we do to make the lives of the sick, the differently abled, and the aging feel like they have more purpose and importance? How can we give them the hope and joy that we faithfully preach to everyone else every Sunday?

* What little things can we do that make a big difference? Does it mean just talking to them, finding an activity they can still enjoy, playing a game of cards with them, etc.? (For example, one elderly woman I met commented on how much she liked my nail polish, and I know God is saying that if/when I get back, I should offer to polish her nails.)

* How can we let these long-lived, hard-fought, faithful servants of God know that they, too, are an important part of the church community?

* If you are one of the people that the church seems to forget, what things would make a difference to you? How have you helped other people in this situation, and what have others done that made a difference to you?

* How can we help our caretakers so that they don't burn out? What can we do to make their needs more visible -- and met?

I know this is a hodge-podge of general questions, but I would truly be interested in hearing stories and advice from people who have been/are in these situations (whether caretaker or person cared for,) and how we as a church can keep people in these gorups from being left behind.

Is the truly only meaningful thing we can say to someone who is progressively getting worse -- "Well, at least you'll be healed in heaven! There will be no more tears and sadness, and everything will be perfect with Jesus! Now all you have to do now is hurry up and die!"

Because sometimes, in all honesty, this is what it feels like (at least to me.)

And I have been praying that God will give me better (and more hopeful) answers.

 

[NightTwister]

Hey Everyone,

This is a topic that has weighed heavily on my mind for years, and all the more so as I get older.

Now first of all, OF COURSE God's hope is NOT for just the young and healthy. We all know that (but we'll see how many people answer this thread after only reading the title.)

Second, please DO NOT turn this into a "healing" debate thread in which people argue over whether everyone can/should get healed in this life -- if only they have enough faith. This is just my own belief, but I have seen too many of God's faithful suffer from too many things... And so I personally believe that YES, GOD WANTS ALL TO BE HEALED -- but for some, it will not be until they reach heaven. And this is the perspective I am writing from.

Yes, I could be wrong. But for anyone wanting to debate these topics, the entire forum is open to you and I invite you to write your own thread elsewhere. Thank you!

* In contrast, this thread is asking: Does it seem like the church's resources are often concentrated on the young and healthy? If so, what more can we do for those who don't fit into those categories?

I'm asking this because most everyone I know, whether single or married, is a caretaker for one or several family members who are suffering from: cancer, mentally and/or physical disablement, mental illness, diabetes, dementia, and a myriad of other conditions that require full-time care -- or close to it.

I recently spent time with friends who are in these caretaking positions, doing the best they can, and I couldn't help but notice the sharp contrast between what these families are going through (like sharp, daily arguments due to memory loss) -- and the chipper, upbeat, joyful atmosphere of their churches on Sunday -- because it was the season when they were all celebrating high school and college graduations.

The congregations celebrated these hopeful young lives with cheers and gifts, proudly displaying where they were going to college, along with future degrees and plans.

And while it was joyous to behold, my heart was heavy.

"Lord," I said, "we have these days in the church where we celebrate children, young people, and young families -- but what about all the people who aren't young, who don't have bright futures, and are no longer strong and healthy?" After all, there is no season of the church that celebrates the sick, disabled, or elderly and all they have going on in their lives because of it.

My family is currently going to a church for its many outreaches for the young (as I have several young family members,) but I believe God has called me back to my roots -- a WELS Lutheran church with a mostly elderly population. (Lutheran churches are often called "Heaven's Gates" because they are usually elderly, dying congregations.) One man I chatted with was in a specialized wheelchair because he is partially paralyzed, but his "good" hand tightly gripped mine as we exchanged Sunday pleasantries. It made me think of all the emotional and physical struggles he must have been, and is still going through.

I went home with a heart full of sorrow, and I told God about how troubled I was that we chatter with excitement about the young and healthy -- but what can we say to God's lifelong soldiers who aren't and won't get any better, whether a day or decades from now -- until they reach heaven?

Is this what the Christian life is meant to be? We give everything we have while we're "of worth" -- only to be forgotten, pushed out, and discarded when we're no longer seen as useful?

And so, dear reader, I would like to ask advice from anyone out there who is caring for someone who does not fit into the "young and healthy" category -- or does not fit into that category themselves.

* What can we do to make the lives of the sick, the differently abled, and the aging feel like they have more purpose and importance? How can we give them the hope and joy that we faithfully preach to everyone else every Sunday?

* What little things can we do that make a big difference? Does it mean just talking to them, finding an activity they can still enjoy, playing a game of cards with them, etc.? (For example, one elderly woman I met commented on how much she liked my nail polish, and I know God is saying that if/when I get back, I should offer to polish her nails.)

* How can we let these long-lived, hard-fought, faithful servants of God know that they, too, are an important part of the church community?

* If you are one of the people that the church seems to forget, what things would make a difference to you? How have you helped other people in this situation, and what have others done that made a difference to you?

* How can we help our caretakers so that they don't burn out? What can we do to make their needs more visible -- and met?

I know this is a hodge-podge of general questions, but I would truly be interested in hearing stories and advice from people who have been/are in these situations (whether caretaker or person cared for,) and how we as a church can keep people in these gorups from being left behind.

Is the truly only meaningful thing we can say to someone who is progressively getting worse -- "Well, at least you'll be healed in heaven! There will be no more tears and sadness, and everything will be perfect with Jesus! Now all you have to do now is hurry up and die!"

Because sometimes, in all honesty, this is what it feels like (at least to me.)

And I have been praying that God will give me better (and more hopeful) answers.

The basket of ear plugs at the entry to the sanctuary tells you everything you need to know about how they treat the elderly.

 

[seoulsearch]

The basket of ear plugs at the entry to the sanctuary tells you everything you need to know about how they treat the elderly.

@NightTwister -- I love how you have a talent for summing things up simply, but in such a poignant way, it truly cuts to the bone.


I have to admit to being one of the people who takes a set of ear plugs at a loud church -- I know a few young people who are losing their hearing (due to earbuds, work around loud machines, etc.) and I hope to preserve mine as long as possible.

As for the "elderly," some of my favorite posters here on the forum are in their 60's and 70's -- I love their wisdom -- and the wit they often display when sharing it.

Sometimes I come here specifically looking for more of their posts, and hopefully more members like them.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

I'm old. I'm disabled. I can still get around. I've never thought much about what the Church Body can do for me. I'm still involved in ministry that endeavors to help others. I'm not wheel chair bound, but even if I was, there are certainly things I could do to minister to others.

As a community we have people of all ages in any particular church body. A lot of congregations are mostly older folks with few young. But even those will have cause to celebrate the successes and milestones of the few younger members of the congregation.

My own church has a good sampling of all age groups. It has Home Groups for just about everyone and if you don't feel like you fit into any of the existing Home Groups, then you're encouraged to start your own. We celebrate every good thing that happens and pray for each other's needs.

When I look back on my life I've been involved in some ministry or other most all the time since I became a Believer. The question for me is how can I serve v.s. how can I be served?

What about elderly who are alone and home bound or in a care facility? First, the Body needs to know that there is a need somehow, which often doesn't happen. If I was home bound and couldn't get out I probably wouldn't broadcast my need and thus wouldn't receive any comfort/assistance unless someone stumbled across my need. If the need is known, then hopefully members of the Body who feel called will reach out. My wife visits someone in a care facility once a week who is a member of our church. She's developed dementia so usually doesn't have a clue who my wife is but my wife has been good to spend time with her and bring her little gifts. The giving of our time in such cases is one of the best gifts we can offer.

There are both younger and older folks who are lonely, alone, and who probably feel forgotten. How do we/how can we minister to those? Much of that loneliness is a result of our personalities, how we structure our lives, etc., but still the lonely have needs and the church body should desire to reach out to those folks. Mostly you can encourage them to join whatever programs, like home groups, or prayer groups, that the church has. But perhaps the most ideal thing would be to get people in that category involved in some ministry or other where they're helping others.

As a Body, we are all types of people with all kinds of needs. It would be nice if every church had an assistant pastor whose job it was to try and fill as many needs of the community as possible. It would need to be someone with an outgoing personality who could easily get to know people and get them talking to learn about what needs are out there. If such a Minister caught me while I was heading to the door after service, if he got to know me he would see that my need, perhaps, is to be involved somehow in helping others. In so doing I'm helping myself, keeping myself whole and healthy.

For care givers there could be a home group dedicated to them where they can meet with others who are experiencing some of the same difficulties and trials that go with care giving. Having others to share your trials and tribulations with brings healing and will strengthen those care givers. Care givers need care too.

 

[Lynx]

About making elderly people feel more useful and engaged - past a certain point there's just nothing to be done.

One of my bleakest moments with Grandma was one day when she wanted to stay in bed. She had been doing that a lot lately, wanting to not get up. I wanted to get her up and about because I didn't want her to waste away in bed all day. "What's the point? What have I got to do except watch TV all day anyway?" I didn't really have an answer for that.

It was almost a relief when her dementia progressed to the point that she was no longer aware of her condition. She didn't know who her kids were sometimes, but at least she wasn't so depressed anymore.

As for the church focus on the young, that's the driving force. The older we get, the less appealing excitement and adventure are, and the more appealing comfort and security are. Young people are not only more able to go and do, they are also more WILLING to go and do.

Mind you I'm not saying older people should just curl up and hibernate on the sidelines. If an elderly person feels like he can hang in there long enough, go for it dude. But most elderly people want a bit less activity because they have the sense to know their bodies are older.

I remember one time I was in the kitchen with our senior (now deceased) pastor and we were looking for something. The current pastor's wife had rearranged the whole kitchen. Back in the day the church kitchen had been the senior pastor's domain. He was always at the forefront whenever we were cooking anything there. Now he couldn't even find the salt. He commented, "I used to know where everything was. But now I'm not in charge anymore." Then he repeated quietly, to himself, "I'm not in charge anymore" and sighed.

This was a man I have NEVER seen any less than upbeat and encouraging. As much respect as I have for my father (and I have a lot for him) I respected our senior pastor even more. But even this man sometimes got a bit down when he contemplated not being able to do what he used to do.

Again, I'm not saying elderly people should be pushed to the sidelines. Neither am I saying they should be pushed into the mainstream of activities. They are probably going to be on the border of most things the church has going on, and they will probably sometimes be a bit blue about not being able to participate like they used to.

Best I can think to do is, be understanding when they are less than eager to do something, and when they are sad about not being able to do something. And if they try to do it anyway, help out all you can.

Cause sometimes life just sucks, and old age is a major suck. It's also not the way the world was when God made it. But we gotta put up with it for now.

When the situation brings you down, just remember: "Sometimes life just sucks." It's okay to not feel okay about it. Sometimes there are no good solutions, and we shouldn't break stuff trying to force a solution. Sometimes the best thing we can do is just acknowledge that sometimes life sucks.

 

[NightTwister]

@NightTwister -- I love how you have a talent for summing things up simply, but in such a poignant way, it truly cuts to the bone.


I have to admit to being one of the people who takes a set of ear plugs at a loud church -- I know a few young people who are losing their hearing (due to earbuds, work around loud machines, etc.) and I hope to preserve mine as long as possible.

As for the "elderly," some of my favorite posters here on the forum are in their 60's and 70's -- I love their wisdom -- and the wit they often display when sharing it.

Sometimes I come here specifically looking for more of their posts, and hopefully more members like them.

Thank you for that. It means a lot. Unfortunately, sometimes that wit too easily becomes sarcasm or snark, which isn't edifying for anyone. I'm working on reducing that.

 

[Caan]

Thank you for that. It means a lot. Unfortunately, sometimes that wit too easily becomes sarcasm or snark, which isn't edifying for anyone. I'm working on reducing that.

I for one have garnered many a laugh from your Wry humor--
And.... if you weren't aware of the Holy Spirit's working in Your Life,
Well I just could not tolerate the new look.!!

Honestly Brother, I think you have a tender Heart for the Lord and His people.

So there , hows that for completely NOT responding to the thread topic...

 

[seoulsearch]

I for one have garnered many a laugh from your Wry humor--
And.... if you weren't aware of the Holy Spirit's working in Your Life,
Well I just could not tolerate the new look.!!

Honestly Brother, I think you have a tender Heart for the Lord and His people.

So there , hows that for completely NOT responding to the thread topic...

Now look here, Mr. Caan...

It's great to see you in the forums, but aren't you supposed to be causing trouble -- in the chatrooms???

 

[seoulsearch]

Thank you for that. It means a lot. Unfortunately, sometimes that wit too easily becomes sarcasm or snark, which isn't edifying for anyone. I'm working on reducing that.

No worries @NightTwister!

You're one of the regulars in these threads and one of the ones whose posts I always look forward to (242 coffee makers and all.)

I think most of us (or at least, the people I've met here on CC) are ALL getting more sarcastic the older we get -- and the other thing about getting older is that we have to keep reminding ourselves to care!

(One of the things I like about this stage in life is that I don't really have to care what other people think -- but I have to remember that on a certain level, I should.)

 

[seoulsearch]

I'm old. I'm disabled. I can still get around. I've never thought much about what the Church Body can do for me. I'm still involved in ministry that endeavors to help others. I'm not wheel chair bound, but even if I was, there are certainly things I could do to minister to others.

As a community we have people of all ages in any particular church body. A lot of congregations are mostly older folks with few young. But even those will have cause to celebrate the successes and milestones of the few younger members of the congregation.

My own church has a good sampling of all age groups. It has Home Groups for just about everyone and if you don't feel like you fit into any of the existing Home Groups, then you're encouraged to start your own. We celebrate every good thing that happens and pray for each other's needs.

When I look back on my life I've been involved in some ministry or other most all the time since I became a Believer. The question for me is how can I serve v.s. how can I be served?

What about elderly who are alone and home bound or in a care facility? First, the Body needs to know that there is a need somehow, which often doesn't happen. If I was home bound and couldn't get out I probably wouldn't broadcast my need and thus wouldn't receive any comfort/assistance unless someone stumbled across my need. If the need is known, then hopefully members of the Body who feel called will reach out. My wife visits someone in a care facility once a week who is a member of our church. She's developed dementia so usually doesn't have a clue who my wife is but my wife has been good to spend time with her and bring her little gifts. The giving of our time in such cases is one of the best gifts we can offer.

There are both younger and older folks who are lonely, alone, and who probably feel forgotten. How do we/how can we minister to those? Much of that loneliness is a result of our personalities, how we structure our lives, etc., but still the lonely have needs and the church body should desire to reach out to those folks. Mostly you can encourage them to join whatever programs, like home groups, or prayer groups, that the church has. But perhaps the most ideal thing would be to get people in that category involved in some ministry or other where they're helping others.

As a Body, we are all types of people with all kinds of needs. It would be nice if every church had an assistant pastor whose job it was to try and fill as many needs of the community as possible. It would need to be someone with an outgoing personality who could easily get to know people and get them talking to learn about what needs are out there. If such a Minister caught me while I was heading to the door after service, if he got to know me he would see that my need, perhaps, is to be involved somehow in helping others. In so doing I'm helping myself, keeping myself whole and healthy.

For care givers there could be a home group dedicated to them where they can meet with others who are experiencing some of the same difficulties and trials that go with care giving. Having others to share your trials and tribulations with brings healing and will strengthen those care givers. Care givers need care too.

I always appreciate your thoughtful, detailed, and pragmatic answers, @Tall_Timbers.

I enjoy reading all the responses in these threads, but I always pay special attention to yours because you have the life experience and receipts to back it up.

May God bless your wife for faithfully visiting the woman in the care facility! It certainly can't be an easy thing to do, especially since she has dementia.

Right now I'm experiencing the ways in which God can shift our ministry interests as we progress in life.

Years ago I wanted to marry and raise a family like most everyone else.

However, these days I find myself more concerned with thoughts of how to help those who are trying to adjust to being single after death or divorce ("adult orphans,") the people who aren't immediately part of the "mainstream" who need extra help, and the caretakers who are faithfully looking after those that they can.

Thank you so much for such a helpful post!

 

[seoulsearch]

About making elderly people feel more useful and engaged - past a certain point there's just nothing to be done.

One of my bleakest moments with Grandma was one day when she wanted to stay in bed. She had been doing that a lot lately, wanting to not get up. I wanted to get her up and about because I didn't want her to waste away in bed all day. "What's the point? What have I got to do except watch TV all day anyway?" I didn't really have an answer for that.

It was almost a relief when her dementia progressed to the point that she was no longer aware of her condition. She didn't know who her kids were sometimes, but at least she wasn't so depressed anymore.

As for the church focus on the young, that's the driving force. The older we get, the less appealing excitement and adventure are, and the more appealing comfort and security are. Young people are not only more able to go and do, they are also more WILLING to go and do.

Mind you I'm not saying older people should just curl up and hibernate on the sidelines. If an elderly person feels like he can hang in there long enough, go for it dude. But most elderly people want a bit less activity because they have the sense to know their bodies are older.

I remember one time I was in the kitchen with our senior (now deceased) pastor and we were looking for something. The current pastor's wife had rearranged the whole kitchen. Back in the day the church kitchen had been the senior pastor's domain. He was always at the forefront whenever we were cooking anything there. Now he couldn't even find the salt. He commented, "I used to know where everything was. But now I'm not in charge anymore." Then he repeated quietly, to himself, "I'm not in charge anymore" and sighed.

This was a man I have NEVER seen any less than upbeat and encouraging. As much respect as I have for my father (and I have a lot for him) I respected our senior pastor even more. But even this man sometimes got a bit down when he contemplated not being able to do what he used to do.

Again, I'm not saying elderly people should be pushed to the sidelines. Neither am I saying they should be pushed into the mainstream of activities. They are probably going to be on the border of most things the church has going on, and they will probably sometimes be a bit blue about not being able to participate like they used to.

Best I can think to do is, be understanding when they are less than eager to do something, and when they are sad about not being able to do something. And if they try to do it anyway, help out all you can.

Cause sometimes life just sucks, and old age is a major suck. It's also not the way the world was when God made it. But we gotta put up with it for now.

When the situation brings you down, just remember: "Sometimes life just sucks." It's okay to not feel okay about it. Sometimes there are no good solutions, and we shouldn't break stuff trying to force a solution. Sometimes the best thing we can do is just acknowledge that sometimes life sucks.

I guess as Christians, we feel it's our duty, and pillar of faith, that we MUST say something to people that supposedly makes it seem better or gives them hope.

However, I agree that sometimes we just have to sit with people and agree that life sucks. I guess something in me fights it because it seems like it's not a "Christian enough" solution.

How do we talk to people who have no hope left in this lifetime (that things will get better)? I suppose sometimes the answer is to just sit with them and keep them company.

I have struggled with this dilemma before in a different form.

Back when I wrote inmates who had LWOP (life without patrol,) I asked God, "What do you say to someone who knows very well that he's going to spend the rest of his life in a box and will never see the free world again?"

Now I am by no means trying to compare the populations I have mentioned in this thread to prison inmates. But the point is that God gave me a few "Rosetta Stones" back then -- formulas that worked in the past -- and so I ask Him if there are new ways to use them that might help in a new situation.

One thing that I found was that some inmates seemed to really love hearing about everyday life -- even if it was just about going to the grocery store. I had a hard time understanding why they wanted to hear about an aspect of life that was so mundane and something they could never again participate in. And then I realized it was because reading descriptions of everyday activities in the free world made them feel like they were being included in, or participating in free world life -- even if it was just vicariously. In turn, this made them feel less forgotten and left behind.

And as I feel God calling me more towards populations who can no longer participate in much of regular life, I am asking God to help me learn/adjust/build on what I know to hopefully form a connection with people in these situations. Hence, God nudging me to polish a woman's finger nails -- a simple luxury that for her, was long left behind.


I am truly sorry about your Grandma, @Lynx, as she truly had a heart of gold.

I remember when I was there, and how at one point, she said to me, "I just love you so much," when she'd only known me a few days.

I'm very glad that she is at rest with our Lord now, hopefully cooking and baking up a storm.

 

[Caan]

Now look here, Mr. Caan...

It's great to see you in the forums, but aren't you supposed to be causing trouble -- in the chatrooms???

I'm multitasking...

 

[seoulsearch]

I'm multitasking...View attachment 291317

LOL!!!

Causing trouble in two places at once... Impressive!

Caan wins the Internetz for the day!

 

[Magenta]

One man I chatted with was in a specialized wheelchair because he is partially paralyzed, but
his "good" hand tightly gripped mine as we exchanged Sunday pleasantries. It made me think
of all the emotional and physical struggles he must have been, and is still going through.

I found this very touching. I imagine how happy he was to have someone to talk to!

 

[Lynx]

I guess as Christians, we feel it's our duty, and pillar of faith, that we MUST say something to people that supposedly makes it seem better or gives them hope.

However, I agree that sometimes we just have to sit with people and agree that life sucks. I guess something in me fights it because it seems like it's not a "Christian enough" solution.

How do we talk to people who have no hope left in this lifetime (that things will get better)? I suppose sometimes the answer is to just sit with them and keep them company.

I have struggled with this dilemma before in a different form.

Back when I wrote inmates who had LWOP (life without patrol,) I asked God, "What do you say to someone who knows very well that he's going to spend the rest of his life in a box and will never see the free world again?"

Now I am by no means trying to compare the populations I have mentioned in this thread to prison inmates. But the point is that God gave me a few "Rosetta Stones" back then -- formulas that worked in the past -- and so I ask Him if there are new ways to use them that might help in a new situation.

One thing that I found was that some inmates seemed to really love hearing about everyday life -- even if it was just about going to the grocery store. I had a hard time understanding why they wanted to hear about an aspect of life that was so mundane and something they could never again participate in. And then I realized it was because reading descriptions of everyday activities in the free world made them feel like they were being included in, or participating in free world life -- even if it was just vicariously. In turn, this made them feel less forgotten and left behind.

And as I feel God calling me more towards populations who can no longer participate in much of regular life, I am asking God to help me learn/adjust/build on what I know to hopefully form a connection with people in these situations. Hence, God nudging me to polish a woman's finger nails -- a simple luxury that for her, was long left behind.


I am truly sorry about your Grandma, @Lynx, as she truly had a heart of gold.

I remember when I was there, and how at one point, she said to me, "I just love you so much," when she'd only known me a few days.

I'm very glad that she is at rest with our Lord now, hopefully cooking and baking up a storm.

Huh... Makes sense.

That would explain why dad, who is still in rehab (lost his feet, not drug rehab!) keeps asking me what I bought at the auction last Saturday.

 

[Lynx]

The basket of ear plugs at the entry to the sanctuary tells you everything you need to know about how they treat the elderly.

The pastor's wife is always concerned about leaving the elderly out, and I am always concerned about not blasting everybody else's ears. I happen to be running the soundboard these days during service since David retired.

Your pithy comment may have just changed our church policy, both at the sound board and at the welcome center. I just sent my pastor a text message to request it.

 

[Gideon300]

Hey Everyone,

This is a topic that has weighed heavily on my mind for years, and all the more so as I get older.

Now first of all, OF COURSE God's hope is NOT for just the young and healthy. We all know that (but we'll see how many people answer this thread after only reading the title.)

Second, please DO NOT turn this into a "healing" debate thread in which people argue over whether everyone can/should get healed in this life -- if only they have enough faith. This is just my own belief, but I have seen too many of God's faithful suffer from too many things... And so I personally believe that YES, GOD WANTS ALL TO BE HEALED -- but for some, it will not be until they reach heaven. And this is the perspective I am writing from.

Yes, I could be wrong. But for anyone wanting to debate these topics, the entire forum is open to you and I invite you to write your own thread elsewhere. Thank you!

* In contrast, this thread is asking: Does it seem like the church's resources are often concentrated on the young and healthy? If so, what more can we do for those who don't fit into those categories?

I'm asking this because most everyone I know, whether single or married, is a caretaker for one or several family members who are suffering from: cancer, mentally and/or physical disablement, mental illness, diabetes, dementia, and a myriad of other conditions that require full-time care -- or close to it.

I recently spent time with friends who are in these caretaking positions, doing the best they can, and I couldn't help but notice the sharp contrast between what these families are going through (like sharp, daily arguments due to memory loss) -- and the chipper, upbeat, joyful atmosphere of their churches on Sunday -- because it was the season when they were all celebrating high school and college graduations.

The congregations celebrated these hopeful young lives with cheers and gifts, proudly displaying where they were going to college, along with future degrees and plans.

And while it was joyous to behold, my heart was heavy.

"Lord," I said, "we have these days in the church where we celebrate children, young people, and young families -- but what about all the people who aren't young, who don't have bright futures, and are no longer strong and healthy?" After all, there is no season of the church that celebrates the sick, disabled, or elderly and all they have going on in their lives because of it.

My family is currently going to a church for its many outreaches for the young (as I have several young family members,) but I believe God has called me back to my roots -- a WELS Lutheran church with a mostly elderly population. (Lutheran churches are often called "Heaven's Gates" because they are usually elderly, dying congregations.) One man I chatted with was in a specialized wheelchair because he is partially paralyzed, but his "good" hand tightly gripped mine as we exchanged Sunday pleasantries. It made me think of all the emotional and physical struggles he must have been, and is still going through.

I went home with a heart full of sorrow, and I told God about how troubled I was that we chatter with excitement about the young and healthy -- but what can we say to God's lifelong soldiers who aren't and won't get any better, whether a day or decades from now -- until they reach heaven?

Is this what the Christian life is meant to be? We give everything we have while we're "of worth" -- only to be forgotten, pushed out, and discarded when we're no longer seen as useful?

And so, dear reader, I would like to ask advice from anyone out there who is caring for someone who does not fit into the "young and healthy" category -- or does not fit into that category themselves.

* What can we do to make the lives of the sick, the differently abled, and the aging feel like they have more purpose and importance? How can we give them the hope and joy that we faithfully preach to everyone else every Sunday?

* What little things can we do that make a big difference? Does it mean just talking to them, finding an activity they can still enjoy, playing a game of cards with them, etc.? (For example, one elderly woman I met commented on how much she liked my nail polish, and I know God is saying that if/when I get back, I should offer to polish her nails.)

* How can we let these long-lived, hard-fought, faithful servants of God know that they, too, are an important part of the church community?

* If you are one of the people that the church seems to forget, what things would make a difference to you? How have you helped other people in this situation, and what have others done that made a difference to you?

* How can we help our caretakers so that they don't burn out? What can we do to make their needs more visible -- and met?

I know this is a hodge-podge of general questions, but I would truly be interested in hearing stories and advice from people who have been/are in these situations (whether caretaker or person cared for,) and how we as a church can keep people in these gorups from being left behind.

Is the truly only meaningful thing we can say to someone who is progressively getting worse -- "Well, at least you'll be healed in heaven! There will be no more tears and sadness, and everything will be perfect with Jesus! Now all you have to do now is hurry up and die!"

Because sometimes, in all honesty, this is what it feels like (at least to me.)

And I have been praying that God will give me better (and more hopeful) answers.

I live in a retirement village. The average age of those living independently is 83. I know a number who are in their 90's. They still get around, some using rollators and some mobility scooters. My wife has both.

The church here has around 60 members. In that sense, these older believers are the church. The only younger ones are the pastor and the chaplain. Believers treat other believers as normal.

The people are in various stages of health. A few are very hard of hearing. Two men have dementia and their wife struggle with that. There is one man whose wife is wheelchair bound. He is one of the stronger men and he seems to take the load of getting her in and out of the vehicle in his stride.

Part of the problem is an aspect of church life generally. The early church functioned as a body, not as a bunch of believers led by a paid professional that believers depended on.

"What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church." 1 Corinthians 14:26

"Must be done....." Not these days. So people sit in the pews, sing whatever the music director gives them and listen to the pastor preach. Yet there are some saints who have a testimony, a word or a gift of the Spirit. So the people miss out on hearing what God has to say.

If the church functioned as the body that we are, everyone would know that they are valued for who they are in Christ. We are all members of the body of Christ. It does not matter how old we are. Paul told Timothy to respect older men, to treat them like fathers. Since fathers are treated so badly these days, that may not make a lot of sense. However, there needs to be an attitude of respect. It's not optional. God requires it.​

 

[seoulsearch]

Huh... Makes sense.

That would explain why dad, who is still in rehab (lost his feet, not drug rehab!) keeps asking me what I bought at the auction last Saturday.

I'm sure it's different for different people, but maybe your Dad is asking you about your auction adventures because it's a way for him to vicariously get out himself.

It can be amazing how little things can help people feel included or heard.

But it reminds me of years ago when I went bargain hunting the day after Christmas, and you were kind enough to ask what I'd found. I just said, "Oh, you know, just a couple of things," because what guy wants to hear a girl ramble about half-price beauty sets!

But the thing is, you did.

You insisted I tell you about everything in detail, and the part I was most excited about was the deals I had found and how they were half-price! And it wasn't because you cared about beauty products, it was because you cared that I was having fun!

Maybe it's the same for your Dad.

We all love seeing family members having fun and picking up something they're really interested in -- maybe your dad is interested in you stalking bargains at the auction the way you were interested in me hunting down perfume.

The next time he asks, maybe you can do an all-out show-and-tell for him? (If you don't already.)

 

[seoulsearch]

I live in a retirement village. The average age of those living independently is 83. I know a number who are in their 90's. They still get around, some using rollators and some mobility scooters. My wife has both.

The church here has around 60 members. In that sense, these older believers are the church. The only younger ones are the pastor and the chaplain. Believers treat other believers as normal.

The people are in various stages of health. A few are very hard of hearing. Two men have dementia and their wife struggle with that. There is one man whose wife is wheelchair bound. He is one of the stronger men and he seems to take the load of getting her in and out of the vehicle in his stride.

Part of the problem is an aspect of church life generally. The early church functioned as a body, not as a bunch of believers led by a paid professional that believers depended on.

"What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church." 1 Corinthians 14:26

"Must be done....." Not these days. So people sit in the pews, sing whatever the music director gives them and listen to the pastor preach. Yet there are some saints who have a testimony, a word or a gift of the Spirit. So the people miss out on hearing what God has to say.

If the church functioned as the body that we are, everyone would know that they are valued for who they are in Christ. We are all members of the body of Christ. It does not matter how old we are. Paul told Timothy to respect older men, to treat them like fathers. Since fathers are treated so badly these days, that may not make a lot of sense. However, there needs to be an attitude of respect. It's not optional. God requires it.​

Thank you @Gideon300 for this very thorough reply!

It's always interesting to me to hear how other people are living out their own challenges in the various stages of life, and to hear what they are seeing around them.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about respect.

But one thing I observed on my trip was how much harder it is when the respect isn't mutual. I was, of course, raised to respect my elders -- but I've also seen how taxing it is when the elders themselves are disrespectful.

Having worked in retail all my life, the two most entitled groups of people I've ever encountered were:

1. When I worked at a store with a customer base that was dependent on government assistance. They thought everyone else had unfair advantages over them and has done them wrong in some way, so they always felt that everybody owed them something for free.

2. I found a similar attitude when I worked in an area that was mostly retirees, especially those with money and free time. They treated others like house servants because they felt they'd done everyone a favor by living long lives -- therefore, now everyone else owed them something.

Now of course, I'm not trying to say that at all that older people haven't contributed to society -- but I think it's highly individual, and people might be a great help or a great hindrance to their communities at any age or stage in life.

And of course, there can be a myriad of other factors at play (mental illness, narcissistic personality, dementia, etc.)

I have observed some people taking care of family members who demand everything and give nothing. I had one friend whose parents constantly expected this and that, never caring about how much it disrupted their adult children's families or grandkids, nor did they care what it cost -- because it was seen as owed to them.

I have wondered what I would do if I were in an ongoing situation like that.

A friend's daughter precociously asked me, "Is babysitting older people like babysitting kids?"

I thought about it a minute (seeing as I have limited experience,) and I told her that in a lot of ways, it's much harder, because with a child, you know you are the established authority figure.

But with someone older, and especially a parent or grandparent, you have to somehow meet their needs and keep them safe while upholding their dignity, even when they're arguing and fighting you at every turn. You have to be both authority figure and respectful child at the same time, and that's quite a challenge.

But I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who ponders this topic!

We all know how things "should" be.

But I think we're also all realistic enough to know it won't happen this side of heaven.

I'm happy to hear , though, that it doesn't stop some people from trying!

May God bless you all through your own challenges and the ones you are helping!

 

[Magenta]

Huh... Makes sense.

That would explain why dad, who is still in rehab (lost his feet, not
drug rehab!) keeps asking me what I bought at the auction last Saturday.

Please explain what you mean to say your dad lost his feet?