Calvinism is Gospel !

[rogerg]

Not the case in the churches I have attended throughout my life. The other sheep are found in Matthew 25

In Mat 25, the "sheep" do not represent entire countries or nations, but specific individuals who are taken out of ALL nations - with the
"them" being people. At the end of time, Jesus gathers the nations together and from them, He selects out His (individual) sheep which are His elect/saved.
This is confirmed by Rev 5:9, in stating that His redeemed are out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation.

[Mat 25:32 KJV] 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

[Rev 5:9 KJV]
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

[aChristian2]

Call it what you want, Tulip Truths are in the scripture, and they formulate the Gospel of Gods Grace

ok I will give you an example

Hank Handgraaf ( The Bible answer man) (paraphrase)
travels east and visits a church were the people there understand very little or next to nothing of doctrine.
yet beside them he didn't even feel like he was a Christian. so much so he changed to Orthodox.

my point only being, if you look around the world and if we dare say anyone that does not understand a certain Doctrine is lost. can you not feel it?

Love the universal language, dare I say do you think JESUS will say you never understood certain Doctrine, or more likely it will be about Faith & Love, I say most assuredly it will be about Faith and Love in JESUS CHRIST our LORD & Saviour, can you see this???

 

[brightfame52]

ok I will give you an example

Hank Handgraaf ( The Bible answer man) (paraphrase)
travels east and visits a church were the people there understand very little or next to nothing of doctrine.
yet beside them he didn't even feel like he was a Christian. so much so he changed to Orthodox.

my point only being, if you look around the world and if we dare say anyone that does not understand a certain Doctrine is lost. can you not feel it?

Love the universal language, dare I say do you think JESUS will say you never understood certain Doctrine, or more likely it will be about Faith & Love, I say most assuredly it will be about Faith and Love in JESUS CHRIST our LORD & Saviour, can you see this???

Not interested, Tulip Truths are the Gospel, BTW I dont judge nobody's destiny saved or lost

 

[Magenta]

It was a common view of the early church that anyone denying free will was a heretic

Paul did not deny free will. He knew he was a slave to sin and that Christ set him free.
Do you not consider Paul part of the early church? People who claim they can do what
Jesus said was impossible have a problem with what Scripture explicitly articulates,
and many of them are Pelagian heretics.

 

[rogerg]

So that's a elect People. Now Did He save 100% of that Nation ?

For sure he ain't gonna be able to answer that one, brightfame52.

 

[pinebeach]

HISTORY OF A NON-SPIRIT LED DOCTRINE WE NOW CALL CALVINSIM
Introduction: more to follow

Originally reformers emphasized that salvation is all of God. *

8 For by grace you have been saved athrough faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9

Towards the end of the 18th C, this verse, in the hands of some Calvinistic ministers, became something different. They translated the verse to mean that unbelievers are not capable of accepting Christ as had been previously understood. In their reasoning and desire to protect the doctrine they taught, rather then allow scripture to speak, they spoke OVER it and changed the meaning to a person could not be converted through the preaching or hearing of scripture.

Rather then believe as Christ taught, that faith was the vehicle through which one accepted Him, the declaration became estranged from this simple adherence to the gospel and they reasoned that faith was actually erroneous; not theologically sound and not acceptable for salvation.

Believers were therefore not invited to put their faith in Christ. Basically, the gospel was no longer preached as such, while
the adherrents of this hard line approach, believed God saved apart from faith, apart from repentance and that people had nothing to do with it.

This position was known as High Calvinism. Nonbelievers were almost never told to put their faith in Christ. High Calvinist churches became, as to be expected, dry empty buildings with no personal evangelism.


* (usually dated from about 1517 and directly related as a desire to separate from the Catholic church and its control over the lives of its adherents)

 

[John146]

So that's a elect People. Now Did He save 100% of that Nation ?

Nope

Did he save the elect angels?
Did he save is own elect, Jesus Christ?

 

[John146]

In Mat 25, the "sheep" do not represent entire countries or nations, but specific individuals who are taken out of ALL nations - with the
"them" being people. At the end of time, Jesus gathers the nations together and from them, He selects out His (individual) sheep which are His elect/saved.
This is confirmed by Rev 5:9, in stating that His redeemed are out of every kindred, tongue, people and nation.

[Mat 25:32 KJV] 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

[Rev 5:9 KJV]
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

You posted two scriptures, but separate sets of people.

What was the criteria in Matthew 25 to be a sheep?

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[Roger316]

an interpretation of what the scripture Teaches.

TULIP was developed in response to the Five Articles of Remonstrance.

 

[Magenta]

ok I will give you an example

Hank Handgraaf ( The Bible answer man) (paraphrase)
travels east and visits a church were the people there understand very little or next to nothing of doctrine.
yet beside them he didn't even feel like he was a Christian. so much so he changed to Orthodox.

my point only being, if you look around the world and if we dare say anyone that does not understand a certain Doctrine is lost. can you not feel it?

Love the universal language, dare I say do you think JESUS will say you never understood certain Doctrine, or more likely it will be about Faith & Love, I say most assuredly it will be about Faith and Love in JESUS CHRIST our LORD & Saviour, can you see this???

Hank still holds to and promotes proper doctrine. An ai overview:

Hank Hanegraaff continues to actively promote the historic, core essentials of the Christian faith
(orthodoxy) through his long-running Bible Answer Man broadcast and his leadership at the Christian
Research Institute. While his core theological tenets have remained consistent, his perspective has
shifted in a few notable ways: 1. The Eastern Orthodox Shift ~ After decades as an evangelical apologist,
Hanegraaff converted to Eastern Orthodox Christianity in 2017. This transition led him to adopt sacramental
views and a historical appreciation for the early church fathers, causing some conservative evangelicals
to express concern or distance themselves from his ministry. 2. Commitment to "Mere Christianity"
Despite his move to Orthodoxy, Hanegraaff explicitly maintains that he has not abandoned the fundamental,
defining doctrines of the Christian faith. He continues to champion "mere Christianity" based on the
Nicene Creed, regularly emphasizing foundational beliefs such as: The Trinity (one God in three persons)
The deity, virgin birth, and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ... Salvation by grace through faith 3. Emphasis
on "Life" Alongside "Truth" A significant evolution in his ministry is his shift in emphasis, summarized in his
book Truth Matters, Life Matters More. He argues that apologetics and knowledge of truth must not become
an arid intellectualism, but should lead to theosis—the process of partaking in the divine nature and
experiencing active union with God. (my note here: this is what many here seem to do with their cookie
cutter Christianity and cardboard God, denying what Scripture says in favor of their opinion, calling people
who believe what Scripture actually explicitly articulates "degenerate" and calling straight-up Scripture
quotes "false teachings." Some want us to listen to hours and hours of false teachers so we can have their
view while they say the most vile and wicked things blaspheming God. Others make plain they do not know
God at all in a personal way.) 4. Liturgical and Theological Stances~ Because of his Eastern Orthodox
background, his teachings now heavily emphasize the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the communion
of saints, and a liturgical approach to scripture, which differ from traditional Protestant perspectives.

 

[Cameron143]

You posted two scriptures, but separate sets of people.

What was the criteria in Matthew 25 to be a sheep?

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Those aren't criteria to be sheep. Rather, they are behaviors consistent with being His sheep.

 

[rogerg]

You posted two scriptures, but separate sets of people.

What was the criteria in Matthew 25 to be a sheep?

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Not different sets of people. The redeemed - the saved - comprise the same set - all of them are/have been/will be saved exactly the same way. The above are attributes of the "who"; they do not identify who the "who" are.

 

[Roger316]

Not the case in the churches I have attended throughout my life. The other sheep are found in Matthew 25. Can you post scripture where the Apostle Paul, you know, the apostle to the Gentiles, refer to them as sheep? I can be persuaded through scripture, not debates without scripture.

The New Testament has many names for the follower's of Jesus Christ: Sheep, Children of God, The Church, The Body of Christ, The Plaroma, The Elect, and The Saints

 

[Magenta]

Paul did not deny free will. He knew he was a slave to sin and that Christ set him free.
Do you not consider Paul part of the early church? People who claim they can do what
Jesus said was impossible have a problem with what Scripture explicitly articulates,
and many of them are Pelagian heretics.

Paul did not promote free will of the natural man is what I meant to say. @WayneNSO

Free will as people speak of it is simply not found in the Bible. What is taught of the natural man is rejected by so many here who wish to cling to their belief that man is not the creature he became in Adam, who spread sin to the entire human race and death to all humanity. A multitude of verses have been repeatedly given and exposited to show the truth of the natural man, and ignored, swept aside, contradicted and outright denied regularly by those whose man-made traditions mean more to them than the actual Word of God. Total depravity does not mean that all humankind is as evil as it possibly could be; rather, it means that sin affects the whole person and is an accurate description of the spiritual state of fallen man before a just and holy God. The human will is corrupted and in bondage to sin, which some call free, whereas Scripture teaches that it is in Christ that we are set free. There are none righteous aside from Christ, but some will tell you they did not need His help at all. Some will say that for God to move unilaterally in order to enable a person to respond positively to God, that He has kidnapped you against your will, making Him an unjust tyrant and His offer of repentance fraudulent. Or if they do not say it, they agree with those who say such things! These assertions have been explicitly put forth, but when I have mentioned them, I was told I am mischaracterizing what was said. In other words, lies are told with impunity, and lack of integrity abounds to the point we are basically told it is Christians who are said in Scripture to be without the Holy Spirit of God! Suck lack of logic and twisting of what is put forth in our holy book is unconscionable but becoming commonplace if it was not already. We have even been told that a person of their own free will can choose to believe in God and then they, by means of making that choice, retroactively become one of God's elect. They elect themselves, in other words. It seems some believe they can circumcise their own hearts and ears and unblind themselves. Of the natural man:

A lot of what Paul taught is in the following:

the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners
all our righteous acts are like filthy rags
there are NONE righteous
a bad tree cannot produce good fruit
all are under the control of the evil one
we need to be rescued
man’s heart is deceitful and desperately wicked
man is born dead in transgression and sin
he is held captive by a love for sin
will not seek God
he loves the darkness
refuses to come into the Light
hates the Light
does not understand the things of God
suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness
continues to willfully live in sin
sinful lifestyle seems right to men
rejects the gospel of Christ as foolishness
hostile toward God in their mind
does not subject itself to the law of God, for he is unable to do so

 

[Magenta]

I can be persuaded through scripture

You deceive yourself, and/or attempt to deceive others, because what you have said here is a
blatant falsehood, and anyone who has spoken to you on other matters knows this as a fact.

 

[Roger316]

So that's a elect People. Now Did He save 100% of that Nation ?

It's prophecy. It will happen.

 

[rogerg]

It's prophecy. It will happen.

It will happen 100%, but not to earthly Israel. You have the wrong Israel in view.

 

[Roger316]

The world of the so called elect, right?

The entire world.

 

[John146]

Those aren't criteria to be sheep. Rather, they are behaviors consistent with being His sheep.

It is absolutely criteria to be sheep. This is specifically at the time of Jesus' return to earth as King. Those who came to the aid of his people Israel during the time of their trouble (Jacob's trouble), will be ushered into the earthly kingdom.

 

[John146]

The New Testament has many names for the follower's of Jesus Christ: Sheep, Children of God, The Church, The Body of Christ, The Plaroma, The Elect, and The Saints

Can you post from Paul's letters after the death, burial, and resurrection where saved Gentiles are called sheep?