A Nephilim festival??

[HealthAndHappiness]

Lev 19:19? Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Look at the entire verse for Context.

...thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Why would God not want diverse kinds of animals grazing together, sowing different see in the field, and mixing linen (plant based) and woolen(sheep based) fibers for a garment?

It might seem strange until you think about possible symbolism.
Does it mean that you should not let sheep and cattle breed?
Is that what you mean, because you did not say?
Skins of animals covered Adam and Eve's nakedness. Their sons brought sacrifices before the Lord and only one was accepted.
Today we judge preachers who mix grace with works as workers of iniquity and false prophets.
Salvation never results from a mixture of the two. You'll notice the distinctions and separations of these examples of livestock, clothing and seeds.
The verse doesn't give the details, but looking at other passages gives a bigger picture and I see some more clarity now. How about you?

My comment was in context pointing out the fallacy of satanism and paganism that has as a fundamental tenet that twists the obvious fact that everything reproduces after it's own kind. Hebrew word for kind is different in Genesis 1 from Leviticus 19. We don't need to consult a rabbi to understand our excellent translation.
Satan twists and perverts absolutely everything God has made and commands. We see that in monuments like the Egyptian Sphinx, half man/half lion. Look at the Minotaur that represents Satan and many other mixing of people with beasts depictions. Yet they do not exist any more than half angels with half men.

Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[WiselyWoven]

Satan twists and perverts absolutely everything God has made and commands. We see that in monuments like the Egyptian Sphinx, half man/half lion. Look at the Minotaur that represents Satan and many other mixing of people with beasts depictions. Yet they do not exist any more than half angels with half men.

They do exist, hence God's warning to his people.

I. A law against mixtures, v. 19. God in the beginning made the cattle after their kind (Gen. 1:25), and we must acquiesce in the order of nature God hath established, believing that is best and sufficient, and not covet monsters. Add thou not unto his works, lest he reprove thee; for it is the excellency of the work of God that nothing can, without making it worse, be either put to it or taken from it, Ecc. 3:14. As what God has joined we must not separate, so what he has separated we must not join. - Matthew Henry

 

[Charlesiii]

Look at the entire verse for Context.

...thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Why would God not want diverse kinds of animals grazing together, sowing different see in the field, and mixing linen (plant based) and woolen(sheep based) fibers for a garment?

It might seem strange until you think about possible symbolism.
Does it mean that you should not let sheep and cattle breed?
Is that what you mean, because you did not say?
Skins of animals covered Adam and Eve's nakedness. Their sons brought sacrifices before the Lord and only one was accepted.
Today we judge preachers who mix grace with works as workers of iniquity and false prophets.
Salvation never results from a mixture of the two. You'll notice the distinctions and separations of these examples of livestock, clothing and seeds.
The verse doesn't give the details, but looking at other passages gives a bigger picture and I see some more clarity now. How about you?

My comment was in context pointing out the fallacy of satanism and paganism that has as a fundamental tenet that twists the obvious fact that everything reproduces after it's own kind. Hebrew word for kind is different in Genesis 1 from Leviticus 19. We don't need to consult a rabbi to understand our excellent translation.
Satan twists and perverts absolutely everything God has made and commands. We see that in monuments like the Egyptian Sphinx, half man/half lion. Look at the Minotaur that represents Satan and many other mixing of people with beasts depictions. Yet they do not exist any more than half angels with half men.

Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

My thinking is that the commands are there because there is the ability to break them. Just as different kinds of plants can be interbred, so too can animals. Zonkey and liger are examples. I think the usual creationist position is that these animals are therefore different species of the same kind, but to argue this for all such cases is to my thinking the no true Scotsman logical fallacy, which would do away with the reason for the command (even if the assumption is correct for the specific examples).

In other words, God commanded creatures to produce each according to his kind (as you quote from Genesis), but man with crossbreeding can pervert this (as we learn in Leviticus).

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

My thinking is that the commands are there because there is the ability to break them. Just as different kinds of plants can be interbred, so too can animals. Zonkey and liger are examples. I think the usual creationist position is that these animals are therefore different species of the same kind, but to argue this for all such cases is to my thinking the no true Scotsman logical fallacy, which would do away with the reason for the command (even if the assumption is correct for the specific examples).

In other words, God commanded creatures to produce each according to his kind (as you quote from Genesis), but man with crossbreeding can pervert this (as we learn in Leviticus).

So you think that a lion and tiger inbreeding is the same thing as people breeding lions and that Sphinx' are the offspring?

They do exist, hence God's warning to his people.

I. A law against mixtures, v. 19. God in the beginning made the cattle after their kind (Gen. 1:25), and we must acquiesce in the order of nature God hath established, believing that is best and sufficient, and not covet monsters. Add thou not unto his works, lest he reprove thee; for it is the excellency of the work of God that nothing can, without making it worse, be either put to it or taken from it, Ecc. 3:14. As what God has joined we must not separate, so what he has separated we must not join. - Matthew Henry

Genetics does not work that way.
Big Cats might just have a common ancestry. Just a guess.
Humans are made in the image of God, Not animals.
In spite of perversions we have no observable evidence of perverts mating with animals to produce gods . Giant statues and pictographs are not proof.

 

[WiselyWoven]

Genetics does not work that way.

This is opinion.

Giant statues and pictographs are not proof.

...mentioned as recently as the days of Abe Lincoln:

In September 1848, during a return trip to Illinois, Abraham Lincoln visited Niagara Falls. The visit inspired an unfinished written reflection in which he famously wrote: "The eyes of that species of extinct giants, whose bones fill the Mounds of America, have gazed on Niagara, as ours do now." - source

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of man. Matthew 24:37

Yep, and glory to God real Christians have power and authority over these beings.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils

It's good to learn how to walk in our spiritual authority as some are experiencing encounters with demonic beings.

We need to do what Jesus did when the devil tried to tempt and coerce Jesus to do sin - we must speak God's Word with authority in faith standing our ground with God's Armor (action in faith based on God's promises)

If someone sees a devil or a nephilim and starts reciting the Lord's prayer these being will just laugh\ and slap you around some more

No, we need to see how Jesus and the Apostles spoke and acted when they were running the devil off with the Sword of the Spirit

Not to many folks know anything about spiritual warfare these days.

Back in the day I went to a supposedly "full Gospel" church for a while and this pastor from the pulpit said he was scared of spiritual warfare (this was back in the 80s when a lot of teaching about demons was going around). I thought it was odd that after being a Christian for several decades this guy was a coward when it came to dealing with the devil.

 

[WiselyWoven]

Yep, and glory to God real Christians have power and authority over these beings.

But they don't know it.

It's good to learn how to walk in our spiritual authority as some are experiencing encounters with demonic beings.

So let's start learning.

We need to do what Jesus did when the devil tried to tempt and coerce Jesus to do sin - we must speak God's Word with authority in faith standing our ground with God's Armor (action in faith based on God's promises)

That's so foreign to the church crowd (and crimps the pastor's collection plate).

If someone sees a devil or a nephilim and starts reciting the Lord's prayer these being will just laugh\ and slap you around some more

Indeed. The blood of Jesus is not a talisman.

Not to many folks know anything about spiritual warfare these days.

A miniscule number of folks.

Back in the day I went to a supposedly "full Gospel" church for a while and this pastor from the pulpit said he was scared of spiritual warfare (this was back in the 80s when a lot of teaching about demons was going around). I thought it was odd that after being a Christian for several decades this guy was a coward when it came to dealing with the devil.

Fear is a literal devil (see 2 Tim. 1:7).

 

[Bible_Locket]

I try to stay away from news at this point because I don't' think we are meant to be seeing so much at once. But what are your thoughts on this. Sometimes I feel like maybe the end is closer than we think because there is so much depravity world wide.

Like how do they not see how demonic this is? If they are praising this is there even a point to say anything at this point. (I know we are called to fight back and bring people to the Lord, 100% but it can be daunting at times, and in this case it is just because I am at a loss for words).

After Sodomites slandered the Last Supper during the opening ceremonies of the last Olympics, expect Satan to tweak lesser intellects to further action.

 

[ciicii]

After Sodomites slandered the Last Supper during the opening ceremonies of the last Olympics, expect Satan to tweak lesser intellects to further action.

true -_- that was a wild performance.

 

[Bible_Locket]

true -_- that was a wild performance.

It was obscene. It looked like Sodom and Gomorrah resurrected out of damnation. And so to put on a spectacle and
inform God's people at the same time, that the end of days is nearer than we think.

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

But they don't know it.

Some of us do know it.

So let's start learning.

I already have. You should get up to speed sooner rather than later.

That's so foreign to the church crowd (and crimps the pastor's collection plate).

That are the tares Jesus warned us about. They are irrelevant.

Indeed. The blood of Jesus is not a talisman.

So how do YOU apply the Blood of Jesus to a situation where evil spirits are coming at you.

Specifically, what are the actions that you employ in such a situation?

Fear is a literal devil (see 2 Tim. 1:7).

Do you understand the 2 different applications of fear found in God's Word?
One application is actually of the Lord and is not a devil:

Here's some examples of the fear of the Lord being a good thing:

Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Proverbs 14:26-27
In the fear of the Lord is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work,
pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

It was obscene. It looked like Sodom and Gomorrah resurrected out of damnation. And so to put on a spectacle and
inform God's people at the same time, that the end of days is nearer than we think.

Yeah and more and more people claiming to be "God's people" are now in agreement with this world's darkness and though the opening ceremonies were quite exquisite, especially here in the US where many liberals claim to be "christians"

 

[Charlesiii]

So you think that a lion and tiger inbreeding is the same thing as people breeding lions and that Sphinx' are the offspring?

I'm not sure I mentioned the Sphinx - that might be a separate subject. But a lion and tiger breeding to produce a liger may be an example of different kinds producing offspring. Or it may indeed be different species of the same kind, but if you argue this, it is logically inconsistent (i.e. of the no-true Scotsman variety) to claim also that different kinds not producing offspring is evidence that they can't, and therefore, that angels couldn't produce nephilim with human women.

So you think that a lion and tiger inbreeding is the same thing as people breeding lions and that Sphinx' are the offspring?


Genetics does not work that way.
Big Cats might just have a common ancestry. Just a guess.
Humans are made in the image of God, Not animals.
In spite of perversions we have no observable evidence of perverts mating with animals to produce gods . Giant statues and pictographs are not proof.

Jude verses 6 and 7 link the abomination of Sodom and Gomorrha (man with man) with the similar sin of the fallen angels (angel with woman) - which produced the nephilim. So you might not believe it can happen, but there's a strong scriptural basis for believing it already did.

Jude 1:6 - 7
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[HeIsHere]

I'm not sure I mentioned the Sphinx - that might be a separate subject. But a lion and tiger breeding to produce a liger may be an example of different kinds producing offspring. Or it may indeed be different species of the same kind, but if you argue this, it is logically inconsistent (i.e. of the no-true Scotsman variety) to claim also that different kinds not producing offspring is evidence that they can't, and therefore, that angels couldn't produce nephilim with human women.


Jude verses 6 and 7 link the abomination of Sodom and Gomorrha (man with man) with the similar sin of the fallen angels (angel with woman) - which produced the nephilim. So you might not believe it can happen, but there's a strong scriptural basis for believing it already did.

Jude 1:6 - 7
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

What is the first estate?

 

[Charlesiii]

What is the first estate?

Presumably Heaven, right?

 

[HeIsHere]

Presumably Heaven, right?

So why do you think they had offspring with women?

 

[Charlesiii]

So why do you think had offspring with women?

The sin is compared to Sodom and Gomorrah - which are infamous for their sodomy (or possibly worse if that is possible, given the intended targets were angels). So you have angels leaving their first estate - Heaven (and Jesus' words that the angels in Heaven do not marry or intermarry), the comparison to abominable sexual sin, and then the account in Genesis about "sons of God" (i.e. reserved for Jesus or direct creations of God) taking daughters of men and having children by them.

 

[HeIsHere]

The sin is compared to Sodom and Gomorrah - which are infamous for their sodomy (or possibly worse if that is possible, given the intended targets were angels). So you have angels leaving their first estate - Heaven (and Jesus' words that the angels in Heaven do not marry or intermarry), the comparison to abominable sexual sin, and then the account in Genesis about "sons of God" (i.e. reserved for Jesus or direct creations of God) taking daughters of men and having children by them.

Well the "sons of God" is what needs to be investigated thoroughly.

Heiser and Missler have done a lot of work to promote this, but I do not buy their reasoning on it.
They both relied on extra-biblical sources.

Leaving their first estate does not mean they were no longer how they were originally created as spirit beings.

I think this is a belief that does harm to the seriousness of the Gospel message, but that is just my personal view.

 

[Charlesiii]

Well the "sons of God" is what needs to be investigated thoroughly.

Heiser and Missler have done a lot of work to promote this, but I do not buy their reasoning on it.
They both relied on extra-biblical sources.

My understanding is that in the Old Testament, Adam and the angels are called sons of God. I'm not sure anyone else? I know the extra biblical book of Enoch also speak of this (maybe others), but I thought only direct creations of God were called "sons of God". In the New Testament, we are born again by the Holy Spirit, so all Christians are called God's sons - and Jesus, obviously, His begotten son.

Leaving their first estate does not mean they were no longer how they were originally created as spirit beings.

I think this is a belief that does harm to the seriousness of the Gospel message, but that is just my personal view.

I agree. But angels in the bible tend to manifest as men (described as "sons of the gods" or similar by unbelievers). I think like many things (even scripture), it can harm the gospel message if it is added to or falsified (e.g. the accusation that some today are descended from fallen angels?) My belief about the nephilim was that these were an attempt to subvert the line of the Messiah.

 

[HeIsHere]

My understanding is that in the Old Testament, Adam and the angels are called sons of God. I'm not sure anyone else? I know the extra biblical book of Enoch also speak of this (maybe others), but I thought only direct creations of God were called "sons of God". In the New Testament, we are born again by the Holy Spirit, so all Christians are called God's sons - and Jesus, obviously, His begotten son.


I agree. But angels in the bible tend to manifest as men (described as "sons of the gods" or similar by unbelievers). I think like many things (even scripture), it can harm the gospel message if it is added to or falsified (e.g. the accusation that some today are descended from fallen angels?) My belief about the nephilim was that these were an attempt to subvert the line of the Messiah.

Yes I agree with your last point for sure, been a while since I did the deep dive on this.. I need to refresh my memory.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

What is the first estate?

We look where angels live as described in Revelation and I see that to be the answer.
They rebelled against God and have a reservation for that place created for the Devil and his angels.
To read anything into that brings in the Gap theory, popularized by Calvinist Thomas Chalmers who started a new Presbyterian denomination in the 1800s when numerous strange doctrines and cults flourished.
C.I. Schofield further popularized by handing out his reference Bible to the evangelical denominations Seminaries and Bible Colleges.

I'm not sure I mentioned the Sphinx - that might be a separate subject. But a lion and tiger breeding to produce a liger may be an example of different kinds producing offspring. Or it may indeed be different species of the same kind, but if you argue this, it is logically inconsistent (i.e. of the no-true Scotsman variety) to claim also that different kinds not producing offspring is evidence that they can't, and therefore, that angels couldn't produce nephilim with human women.

You didn't mention the sphinx or minotaur. I mentioned that because I heard examples of those legends from pagan mythology cited by others as proofs for the topic we are discussing. Those are Biologically impossible. You would likely agree with me there, but you should know what that argument often entails.
Only a recent invention called the Gene Gun can combine genetic material from one kind of life form to another. This is where the term Genetically modified organism comes from. In nature this cannot occur. There's no good reason to believe that we can make an exception for angelic creatures.

Jude verses 6 and 7 link the abomination of Sodom and Gomorrha (man with man) with the similar sin of the fallen angels (angel with woman) - which produced the nephilim. So you might not believe it can happen, but there's a strong scriptural basis for believing it already did.

Jude 1:6 - 7
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

There's a lot written about the first estate of angels. If you like, I can share a few when there's time. They have a reservation for that great day of judgement.
If I call a restaurant , I can make a reservation for a specific time.
I might not show, or I might call back to cancel it.
God has made one already for them and is good as done. It cannot be cancelled.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha,all and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

That's the same destiny, eternal fire.