Different Gospels

[Thaddeus]

Services? Jesus said nothing about services. He spoke of ability by way of the faith He spoke about.

Services...

MM

Let's give you more of what she said:

''No one knows what this has cost me, only God. 'Anyone can see the power in their services I have seen in mine, but it costs everything'' That is why tears flooded down her cheeks
Anyone who thinks it is easy to come to Christ and surrender all to him, does not understand what that entails

 

[Musicmaster]

And that healing ability has been manifested in church services.

Proven how?

Jesus said nothing about sermons, theology, steeples, pulpits, hymn books, etc. — but that does not mean they have no value.

That's a straw man because I was only addressing the laying on of hands for healing as a routine phenomenon in the way Jesus stated that those who believe, they would all do healings, not some overpaid preacher in an institutional churchianity organization putting on a show, and the healing being limited to that and only a small hand full of paid clergy class people.

Terminology changes and new words proliferate as Language marches on.

Yes, but when you add constraints not at all stated in scripture, I have to call it into question.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Let's give you more of what she said:

''No one knows what this has cost me, only God. 'Anyone can see the power in their services I have seen in mine, but it costs everything'' That is why tears flooded down her cheeks
Anyone who thinks it is easy to come to Christ and surrender all to him, does not understand what that entails

Again, just words. I specifically asked you about YOUR reasoning for not being able to do all those things, and you had no direct and absolute answer provided.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Again, just words. I specifically asked you about YOUR reasoning for not being able to do all those things, and you had no direct and absolute answer provided.

MM

Either you are being untruthful, or, you cannot understand what is plainly written to you.
I gave you my reasoning, more than once. I was selfish, I did not do what God wanted me to do. That is my reason, and everyone can see you have been given it.

 

[Thaddeus]

There is a dividing line in Christendom, it is not according to denomination but the Holy Spirit, some rely on Him to learn and some rely on themselves, and never the twain shall meet

 

[Musicmaster]

Either you are being untruthful, or, you cannot understand what is plainly written to you.
I gave you my reasoning, more than once. I was selfish, I did not do what God wanted me to do. That is my reason, and everyone can see you have been given it.

Given this, then, what have you done to correct the issue so that you can start doing all those things you believe Jesus promised to all who are baptized and believe if that Gospel of the Kingdom is still in force today? Have you corrected it? Are you planning to correct it? If not, then why? That would make no sense to not take steps to correct it, right?

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Given this, then, what have you done to correct the issue so that you can start doing all those things you believe Jesus promised to all who are baptized and believe if that Gospel of the Kingdom is still in force today? Have you corrected it? Are you planning to correct it? If not, then why? That would make no sense to not take steps to correct it, right?

MM

The Apostle Paul was part of the BOC, his life fully reflected what Jesus said, that you believe is not for the BOC
Paul surrendered his life to do the work he was called to do, so did the other Apostles, I did not.
Have you ever surrendered all to God? If you have not, ask yourself the same questions you are asking me

 

[Anchorite]

That's a straw man because I was only addressing the laying on of hands for healing as a routine phenomenon in the way Jesus stated that those who believe, they would all do healings, not some overpaid preacher in an institutional churchianity organization putting on a show, and the healing being limited to that and only a small hand full of paid clergy class people.

How often have you tried laying hands on the sick and praying the prayer of faith, and not the prayer of skepticism?

You do not seem like someone seeking to understand true healing vs. fraudulent healing.

Your mind is made up, based solely on the charlatans you have seen, so you cynically challenge people to prove to you that divine healing still happens, and they have done it. Unfortunately, your antagonism to divine healing miracles merely means you are making sure they will not happen for you when you desperately need them to stay alive.

Nobody has to prove to you the validity of Biblical promises and powers. But examples are recorded in history.

The early Christian leaders documented and understood healing in several distinct ways:

• Miraculous Deliverance: Apologists like Justin Martyr (c. 155 AD) and Tertullian (c. 200 AD) famously pointed to ongoing healings and exorcisms in the name of Jesus as proof of the Christian faith, noting that Christians successfully healed demon-possessed individuals whom pagan incantations could not cure.
• The Charismatic Gift: Writers such as Irenaeus and Origen explicitly affirmed that the supernatural gift of healing remained active in the church well after the era of the Apostles.
• Sacramental Anointing: Origen (c. 250 AD) and later Bishop Serapion of Thmuis (c. 350 AD) documented the practice of calling upon presbyters to anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord to receive both bodily healing and the remission of sins.
• Medicine and Providence: Many Fathers saw no conflict between divine healing and medical treatment. Tertullian noted that God provided doctors and medicine, referencing biblical examples like Isaiah ordering medicine for Hezekiah and Paul recommending wine for the stomach.
• Institutional Care: By the 4th century, Church Fathers like Basil the Great actively established the first large-scale hospitals, hospices, and poorhouses, shifting Christian health care from purely spiritual prayer to organized, community-wide physical care.

What musical instrument is your avatar holding? A musical saw?

 

[Thaddeus]

Given this, then, what have you done to correct the issue so that you can start doing all those things you believe Jesus promised to all who are baptized and believe if that Gospel of the Kingdom is still in force today? Have you corrected it? Are you planning to correct it? If not, then why? That would make no sense to not take steps to correct it, right?

MM

BTW
As Paul is your Apostle
He believed the law was in gentiles hearts when he wrote his letters
He believed Gentiles sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more
He believed there were no sacrifices for sin for Gentiles
So, he believed everything written in the covenant mentioned in Heb10:15-18 practically speaking was fully reflected in the lives of Gentile converts
Do you agree with him?

 

[Musicmaster]

BTW
As Paul is your Apostle
He believed the law was in gentiles hearts when he wrote his letters
He believed Gentiles sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more
He believed there were no sacrifices for sin for Gentiles
So, he believed everything written in the covenant mentioned in Heb10:15-18 practically speaking was fully reflected in the lives of Gentile converts
Do you agree with him?

Please quote the citations to which you're referring. That will greatly help me to understand the contexts you're deriving these points from and it will help the others who are reading without posting to get a better grasp of your points.

Thanks

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

How often have you tried laying hands on the sick and praying the prayer of faith, and not the prayer of skepticism?

You do not seem like someone seeking to understand true healing vs. fraudulent healing.

Can YOU lay hands on someone and heal them? Jesus stipulated no criteria for that ability other than faith. So, do YOU have that faith under that gospel? How many have you laid hands upon and healed? Why is your local hospital still full of infirmed and sick if YOU have that faith and that ability? After all, if you're still under that gospel, then YOU should be able to do that.

Your mind is made up, based solely on the charlatans you have seen, so you cynically challenge people to prove to you that divine healing still happens, and they have done it. Unfortunately, your antagonism to divine healing miracles merely means you are making sure they will not happen for you when you desperately need them to stay alive.

If we're going to make accusations for cynicism, take a look in the mirror, my friend. I'm simply asking questions that nobody seems willing to answer directly without appealing to dead people long past or people who aren't even members in these forums. Teaching theology classes to modern students at uninversity showed to me the degree of faith problems in to which our culture is deeply stepped. However, when people make appeals to their allegedly living under the Kingdom Gospel and yet not able to perform all that was promised to those under that Gospel, most continue to live on in blind indifference to their error.

Nobody has to prove to you the validity of Biblical promises and powers. But examples are recorded in history.

The early Christian leaders documented and understood healing in several distinct ways:

• Miraculous Deliverance: Apologists like Justin Martyr (c. 155 AD) and Tertullian (c. 200 AD) famously pointed to ongoing healings and exorcisms in the name of Jesus as proof of the Christian faith, noting that Christians successfully healed demon-possessed individuals whom pagan incantations could not cure.
• The Charismatic Gift: Writers such as Irenaeus and Origen explicitly affirmed that the supernatural gift of healing remained active in the church well after the era of the Apostles.
• Sacramental Anointing: Origen (c. 250 AD) and later Bishop Serapion of Thmuis (c. 350 AD) documented the practice of calling upon presbyters to anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord to receive both bodily healing and the remission of sins.
• Medicine and Providence: Many Fathers saw no conflict between divine healing and medical treatment. Tertullian noted that God provided doctors and medicine, referencing biblical examples like Isaiah ordering medicine for Hezekiah and Paul recommending wine for the stomach.
• Institutional Care: By the 4th century, Church Fathers like Basil the Great actively established the first large-scale hospitals, hospices, and poorhouses, shifting Christian health care from purely spiritual prayer to organized, community-wide physical care.

Again, appealing to dead people who aren't here to testify of their alleged powers, that's just not impressive as a straw man distraction from what I've been asking all along. I want to hear from YOU as to what YOU have done by way of the miraculous elements in Jesus' words. If YOU can demonstrate those things, then you will make a believer out of me that the Kingdom Gospel is still in force, and thus my current beliefs being in error. The local Pentecostal groups all love to jig a gyrate about with all manner of emotional vigor, with their hireling preachers allegedly lengthening legs and healing headaches and all manner of other things that have no outward manifestation other than the usual fare of crowd hypnotism and the powers of suggestion, with so many claiming to have ailments from which they were healed making such claims on the basis of "the ends justify the means," to bolster the faith of others, but in what? They have yet to manifest anything that proves their claims for today.

What musical instrument is your avatar holding? A musical saw?

That's a two-edged sword. I couldn't play an instrument to save my life, and yet I can compose music that others can perform who have those giftings. Here is one of my songs:

https://soundcloud.com/fourwindsangels%2Fassaulting-the-gates-of-hell

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The Apostle Paul was part of the BOC, his life fully reflected what Jesus said, that you believe is not for the BOC

Yes, Paul is indeed a part of the BOC, and his preaching given to him directly from Christ is indeed for the BOC.

Paul surrendered his life to do the work he was called to do, so did the other Apostles, I did not.

So are you not a believer with faith? Those things of which Jesus promised wasn't only to leaders, but to all. Please read the all-inclusive grammar in his words.

Have you ever surrendered all to God? If you have not, ask yourself the same questions you are asking me

I have indeed. I serve Him with my all in the capacities He has empowered me. Do I fail at times...yes, as do we all. That's not an excuse, it's just the way it is.

Additionally, I'm the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, so I don't have to worry about any greater righteousness in and of myself for I have no righteousness in and of myself, which is also true of us all. The righteousness imputed upon me is that of Christ Himself, covering me as it does for all the BOC.

However, those promises for miracles worked by all who were under the Kingdom Gospel, the promise made by Christ, was to another people at another time under another gospel that's no longer in force today because of the fall of Israel and the collapse of that middle wall of partition.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Please quote the citations to which you're referring. That will greatly help me to understand the contexts you're deriving these points from and it will help the others who are reading without posting to get a better grasp of your points.

Thanks

MM

Don't you, a dispensationalist believe your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more?
Or are you under righteousness of obeying the law?

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

Do you believe you must offer sacrifices for sin?

 

[Thaddeus]

Yes, Paul is indeed a part of the BOC, and his preaching given to him directly from Christ is indeed for the BOC.



So are you not a believer with faith? Those things of which Jesus promised wasn't only to leaders, but to all. Please read the all-inclusive grammar in his words.



I have indeed. I serve Him with my all in the capacities He has empowered me. Do I fail at times...yes, as do we all. That's not an excuse, it's just the way it is.

Additionally, I'm the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, so I don't have to worry about any greater righteousness in and of myself for I have no righteousness in and of myself, which is also true of us all. The righteousness imputed upon me is that of Christ Himself, covering me as it does for all the BOC.

However, those promises for miracles worked by all who were under the Kingdom Gospel, the promise made by Christ, was to another people at another time under another gospel that's no longer in force today because of the fall of Israel and the collapse of that middle wall of partition.

MM

Your first response did not address the point made(no surprise there)
Your second point shows a lack of discernment
So your surrendering everything to God has resulted in you debating theology on the internet, where no one changes their mind about anything. I wouldn't say that is a good example of surrendering all to God

 

[Musicmaster]

Don't you, a dispensationalist believe your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more?

Of course they won't. Why would they ever be brought up against us who are of the BOC. What WILL be judged is our works by which we built in this life.

Or are you under righteousness of obeying the law?

No. Obedience to the Law has no effect whatsoever upon our salvation, but only reward(s).

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

Do you believe you must offer sacrifices for sin?

No. Our sins are blotted out entirely, both past and future. If that were not the case, then the imputation of His righteousness upon us is meaningless.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Of course they won't. Why would they ever be brought up against us who are of the BOC. What WILL be judged is our works by which we built in this life.



No. Obedience to the Law has no effect whatsoever upon our salvation, but only reward(s).



No. Our sins are blotted out entirely, both past and future. If that were not the case, then the imputation of His righteousness upon us is meaningless.

MM

So you, a dispensationalist believe your sins and lawless deeds will be remmebered no more
You also know you do not have to offer sacrifices for sin
And Paul makes plain the law is now in gentile believers hearts.
The three things mentioned in the covenant in Heb10:15-18

 

[Musicmaster]

So you, a dispensationalist believe your sins and lawless deeds will be remmebered no more
You also know you do not have to offer sacrifices for sin
And Paul makes plain the law is now in gentile believers hearts.
The three things mentioned in the covenant in Heb10:15-18

I don't understand why you're appealing to the book of Hebrews? That letter was written to those under the Kingdom Gospel...Israel scattered throughout the nations, not Gentiles. Notice the name...HEBREWS. It wasn't even written by any of the apostles, although what is written therein is still inspired because it originated from what the twelve taught to those men who wrote the letter.

Besides, Paul did not write Hebrews.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

I don't understand why you're appealing to the book of Hebrews? That letter was written to those under the Kingdom Gospel...Israel scattered throughout the nations, not Gentiles. Notice the name...HEBREWS. It wasn't even written by any of the apostles, although what is written therein is still inspired because it originated from what the twelve taught to those men who wrote the letter.

Besides, Paul did not write Hebrews.

MM

I see you once again ignored the point made.

 

[Musicmaster]

I see you once again ignored the point made.

Not at all. Let's get the text in place here:

Hebrews 10:15-18
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

This is a reference to a future event that will take place in the hearts of remnant Israel.

Your bent upon an element of replacement theology is yet again demonstrated openly.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Not at all. Let's get the text in place here:

Hebrews 10:15-18
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

This is a reference to a future event that will take place in the hearts of remnant Israel.

Your bent upon an element of replacement theology is yet again demonstrated openly.

MM

And yet, you believe your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more
You know there are no more sacrifices for sin
And Paul plainly stated the law was in gentiles hearts when he wrote his letters.

So, the covenant dispensationalists believe is only for Israel in the future, not for the BOC, is now fully reflected in the lives of Gentiles converts in the BOC