Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?
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This is another wacky idea invented by you without any actual biblical support.
Your “revelations” are just ravings.
Your either-or approach has left you ignorant and self-righteous. There is much you don’t understand because you have closed yourself to instruction.
Meanwhile, you embrace supposed “revelations” from a spirit you call God without realizing that most of the “revelations” you receive contradict Scripture. You have failed miserably to apply the tests that Scripture provides to keep you from deception.
Also, the verse you quoted is not about interpreting Scripture, but rather interpreting events and inventing prophecies.
Again, Scripture shows your error:
“To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Genesis 3:16 NIV
(emphasis added)
Well, you had written in an earlier post that only Judas shared in the meal. I replied that all of the Twelve shared the meal with Jesus. Your reply to that was to point to Proverbs 3:5, so I asked what that verse had to do with the question of whether just Judas, or all 12 disciples shared that Last Supper with Jesus. Is that clearer?
Devils are believers doomed to destruction.
If Judas was an unbeliever because of being a devil, then so was Peter an unbeliever being rebuked as Satan.
In any case, i can see Scripture teaching as written isn't your interest. But just your own personal ideology by your faith alone.
What do devils believe? They know God exists. That is not saving faith. If they actually
did have saving faith as you wish to pretend, they would not be doomed to destruction.
In any case, i can see Scripture teaching as written isn't your interest. Only your opinion
matters to you, whether it contradicts the revealed written Word of God or not.
Another argument avoided by you:
If Judas was an unbeliever because of being called a devil by Jesus, then so was Peter an unbeliever being called Satan by Jesus.
The first argument avoided remains: In John 6, Jesus called them unbelievers that turned back from Him. He did not call any of His 12 apostles that remained with Him, including Judas Iscariot.
And what do men believe? They know that Jesus is Christ. That is saving faith.
Jhn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jo 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Saving faith alone does not justify anyone with God, if they love not one another in works.
Believers in Christ that do evil are condemned with the devils, that also believe and know and confess on earth, that Jesus is the Son of God:
What do devils confess? They know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God:
Mar 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
OSAS faith alone justification is obvious: To justify believers in Christ that act like devils. And so, they would justify Judas Iscariot with everlasting life. And any other devil and betrayer of Jesus, so long as their OSAS justifies them into glory too...
OSAS only justifies by saving faith alone, until the grave. And then comes the judgment of works by God, without any respect of persons, whether believer or unbeliever alike:
1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Unbelievers do not call on the Father. And believers are judged by works the same as unbelievers alike.
If Judas was an unbeliever because of being called a devil by Jesus, then so was Peter an unbeliever being called Satan by Jesus.
The first argument avoided remains: In John 6, Jesus called them unbelievers that turned back from Him. He did not call any of His 12 apostles that remained with Him, including Judas Iscariot.
And what do men believe? They know that Jesus is Christ. That is saving faith.
Jhn 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jo 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Saving faith alone does not justify anyone with God, if they love not one another in works.
Believers in Christ that do evil are condemned with the devils, that also believe and know and confess on earth, that Jesus is the Son of God:
What do devils confess? They know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God:
Mar 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Since they actually do have saving faith according to the Scripture, then they are sons of perdition by works of devils.
You can continue to argue your personal ideology, and I'll respond to it with Scripture. But you can't pretend any faithfulness to Scripture, which you do not quote for your ideology. And the one time you do quote Scripture, you abandon any pretense of it when proven out of context.
OSAS faith alone justification is obvious: To justify believers in Christ that act like devils. And so, they would justify Judas Iscariot with everlasting life. And any other devil and betrayer of Jesus, so long as their OSAS justifies them into glory too...
OSAS only justifies by saving faith alone, until the grave. And then comes the judgment of works by God, without any respect of persons, whether believer or unbeliever alike:
1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Unbelievers do not call on the Father. And believers are judged by works the same as unbelievers alike.
ATG, you just crossed the line into heresy. Well... you crossed the line long ago, but this demonstrates it clearly.
"...that the scripture might be fulfilled."
It's an interesting and long lived discussion or debate.
The scripture that need be fulfilled was the prophecy relating to the Messiah who would die to take the sins of the world upon himself.
Which is the curious part.
You would think Satan ,who tried to temp Jesus to show Satan his power when Jesus was in the desert, would not want Jesus to fulfill the scripture prophecy given what it meant for Satan and his future.
While Judas,being a Disciple, would have obviously not have betrayed Jesus if he was himself. Which is maybe why Satan had to enter him first.
Unless,Satan didn't know the prophecy,which one wonders how he could not know it, and merely wanted to see Jesus arrested. So to then see if Jesus would show Satan his power when he would not do so in the desert.
In any case, I think Judas was Saved.
He appeared to be the betrayer on the outside to the other Disciples who learned what Judas did when in the garden. But inside dwelt Satan. They did not know this.
But,I believe Jesus did. Because at the Disciples last supper in the upper room ,after Jesus said one of them would betray him, Jesus then told Judas to go and do what he must do.
Must do.
Which was betray Jesus so that the scripture was fulfilled.
I think Judas hanged himself,after Satan had left him,because he learned of how Jesus came to be arrested in the garden. His guilt led him to hang himself.
Because the scripture says,cursed is anyone who is hanged on a tree.
Which is why Jesus had to die hanged on a tree. In His case, that meant Crucified.
When Jesus asked the father to forgive them for they know not what they do,that makes sense too.
They wouldn't know why Jesus had to be killed. So to fulfill prophecy.
And being that Judas was possessed when betraying Jesus,he too would not know what he did.
So yes, I think Judas was redeemed of his Sins.
He repented when he took the 30 pieces of silver to the temple and threw them on the floor at the Sadducees feet.
Some might say,if he didn't know he betrayed Jesus because Satan possessed and controlled him,how would he know where the silver came from?
The silver coins would have been Tyrian shekels. The only coins used to pay temple tax. Temple tax monies in that amount would have been in possession of the temple authorities.
That's how I see it.
It would seem so. Which is why some are
of the opinion that son of perdition was Satan. Because he had entered Judas prior to Judas betrayal of Jesus.
Which, technically would have made it Satan betraying Jesus because he possessed Judas,not Judas alone betraying Jesus.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me
I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be
fulfilled. John 17 v 12 That son of perdition refers to Judas, who betrayed Jesus, as Jesus knew
he would, as per John 6 v 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that
should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Yes. By that account it appeared to be Judas betraying Jesus. Because the witnesses saw the man Judas betray Jesus. They were unaware Satan was within him.
Satan entered Judas twice,according to scripture.
But, Jesus knew this would occur months beforehand.
Which is why at the last supper he told Judas-Satan, to go and do what he must do.
John 6:70 (Jesus speaks here)"Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"
The above was months before Judas-Satan betrayed Jesus.
This is the first account of Satan acting within Judas and just before the Passover dinner.
"Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus." Luke 22:3-4
And this is the final time Satan entered Judas.
John 13:27 "As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, 'What you are about to do, do quickly.'"
This was all so that the scriptures,prophecy,
might be fulfilled.
Judas didn't betray Jesus. Satan in possession of Judas did.
Judas didn't wilfully Sin when Satan was in control. And the passage in John shows us, Jesus knew of this Devil within Judas.
Which is why he later said, of all of his Disciples would not be lost,condemned, paraphrasing there, except for the Son of Purdition.
Which would be Satan. Who occupied the body, as he appeared as Judas to his brother Disciples.
Straw dog: Arguing against something false, does not prove an opposing argument is true.
God imputing righteousness by faith is not anyone believing themselves into election, salvation, righteousness, nor resurrection unto life. That would be a human work of self-delusion.
No one can be elect without imputed righteousness. According to grace, that would be a sinner's work of electing themselves without faith.
Original predetermination of election disannuls faith, and so has no place in matters of faith toward God.
Original predeterminism is the lie of the devil against God, of being both a Creator of good and evil men and women. God does not make some people in His image, and some people in the image of the devil. All men and women are created in the image of God:
Gen 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh.
Rev 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
True. Jesus knew that when He told Judas to betray Him quickly. Even as Jesus knew Judas was a believer, when He chose him to an apostle.
Jesus Christ does not choose unbelievers in Himself.
2 Cor{6:14}
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the
Nor do unbelievers choose Jesus Christ.
Jhn 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Anyone believing in a Christ that chooses unbelievers in Jesus Christ, is choosing a false Christ for themselves.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
That's why they don't preach Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, but preach their own Christ according to their own ideology.
You just exampled Godwin's Law there.
Which invalidates your observation.
As a point of historic note, Adolf was a practicing Roman Catholic.
Precisely.
Jesus was God. Jesus chose Judas as a Disciple. That verse in John tells us, Jesus later also knew Satan would enter him.
Because,as we are told,the scriptures had to be fulfilled.
If not for Satan entering into Judas,how would Jesus have been delivered into the hands of his enemies do to fulfill those scriptures.
Judas didn't let Satan in. God sent Satan in. Because the scripture fulfillment was God's plan from the beginning.
Judas didn't choose Satan. Satan chose Judas. As Jesus knew.
That's how Jesus could say of his Disciples,of all (of them) that God gave him he lost none.
Except for that one who was not one of his Disciples. Satan! The Son of Purdition, Damnation.
You believe that Jesus Christ chooses unbelievers to serve Him? It's only an assumption, that His election is by grace through faith in Him as Christ, the Son of God?
Shall I quote the Scriptures for you, that only His believers are chosen by Jesus to serve Him? If not, then why accuse me of making assumptions like those that have no Scripture?
Otherwise, when someone has already disregarded quoted Scripture for their assumptions, then it's not necessary nor wise to keep quoting scriptures only to be ignored:
Mat 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Or, is this just a new way from your past trolling, under the guise of fairness?
Your god is so weak that He can't sovereignly use unbelievers to accomplish His purposes? Have you not read the Scripture where He steered Pharaoh, Artaxerxes, Cyrus, and many others to His will?
You make the same kind of assumption as those whom you decry.
Pot, meet kettle.
You just took out of context again, which you do long ago, and still do.
She was speaking of devils, I speak of believers that do works of devils. If I had said devils have saving faith, the poster could certainly have rebuked it.
Your trolling has progressed from simple cheap shots, to twisting arguments, as well as accusations under guise of fairness.