Thanks for explaining. As you were replying to my post, I thought you meant me. Thanks again, and sorry for misunderstanding.
Calvinism is Gospel !
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Interesting, maybe kinda like repetition increases credibility.
Yes, but you do realize the better explanation/truth is very personally threatening for some of these adherents.
What I have is not the issue, the real issue is your lack of scriptural evidence which has been demonstrated clearly on this thread and the other related threads.
In scripture, regeneration does not precede faith and neither does scripture state that simple/initial faith is a gift.
Not a single person has denied Jesus saying what? You are new here and should not make such
bold claims. The person who put a like on your post is one who claims everyone hears. She says
a lot of things that directly contradict Scripture, including the very words of Jesus Christ Himself,
which some free willers rewrite to suit their opinions which directly contradict what the Bible says.
Thanks for confirming that I am not a Calvinist. A number of free willers here lie about that.
My sentiment exactly, they are woefully uninformed, they have already been proven wrong.. it is just a matter of time til the word continues to spread.
Three men who were the champions of this false doctrine have gone and I doubt the masses will be so easily fooled again.
The scripture does cover both sides of arguments. Predestination as well as choose.
So it is not a huge deal one lean towards either way. Important thing is Jesus is our savior. How did He do it? Hold your thought and ask Him in person when seeing Him.
Long for that day we see Jesus face to face.
So it is not a huge deal one lean towards either way. Important thing is Jesus is our savior. How did He do it? Hold your thought and ask Him in person when seeing Him.
Long for that day we see Jesus face to face.
That's what the dark spirits keep telling the gullible, and they love it so.
Jesus also said He paid for the sins of the entire world and it's not His will that any should perish.
The Lord is not part of the calvinist cult. He's smarter than that.
Calvinists take great joy seeing people go to hell which let's everyone know what spirit they are of, the dark spirits.
We agree that God is saving the elect, whether Jew or Gentile. Let's establish this as a given. The question concerns God's will for the Nation of Israel.
I brought us to Romans 11 to show Paul's perspective on the question. Beginning in Romans 11:11 he begins his argument for why God has not abandoned the physical nation of Israel.
Paul’s point in Romans 11:11ff centers on physical Israel, not a symbolic “spiritual Israel,” because the entire sequence he describes depends on the real historical actions of ethnic Israel. It was physical Israel that transgressed, rejecting the Messiah, and Paul explicitly says that their transgression opened the door for Gentile salvation. That salvation, in turn, had a specific purpose: to provoke Israel—the same group that stumbled—to jealousy. The logic only works if Paul is speaking about the same, literal people group at every step: the Israel that sinned, the Israel that sees Gentiles receiving what they expected, and the Israel that is meant to be stirred to return to God. A symbolic “spiritual Israel” cannot transgress, cannot be contrasted with Gentiles, and cannot be made jealous by Gentile inclusion. Paul’s argument depends entirely on the historical, physical nation of Israel and God’s ongoing plan for them.
Fair enough. But I can't tell you how many verses from the Bible I would need to quote to tell the complete story. I already attempted to summarize it but the summary was rejected out of hand. I created two or three videos in order to explain it but they won't let me post them here.
I will try to summarize God's will for physical Israel this way.
Jesus as the "Savior King."
In the Greek and Roman world, a **sōtēr** was a “savior‑king” or “savior‑prince,” a ruler who delivered his people from military threat, political chaos, or national humiliation. Emperors, generals, and benefactors were praised as *sōtēres* because they rescued the nation from its enemies and restored peace. This cultural backdrop helps explain the New Testament’s language about Jesus as **Savior**. Yes, he saves his people from their sins, but Luke’s opening chapters show that his role is also royal and national: he is the promised Davidic king who brings deliverance to **Israel**. Zechariah blesses God for raising up “a horn of salvation” to save Israel from her enemies and from all who hate her (Luke 1:69–71), and Simeon rejoices that Jesus is God’s salvation for Israel and the nations (Luke 2:30–32). In other words, the New Testament uses the familiar Greco‑Roman idea of a savior‑king but fills it with Israel’s messianic hope: Jesus is the true *sōtēr* who brings both spiritual forgiveness and national deliverance.
The Greco‑Roman idea of the sōtēr—a savior‑king who rescues a nation from its enemies—helps illuminate Paul’s language at the end of Romans 11. Just as a sōtēr was expected to bring political and national deliverance, Paul speaks of a future moment when “the Deliverer will come from Zion” and save Israel. This fits the pattern we see in Luke 1–2, where Jesus is hailed not only as the one who forgives sins but as the Davidic king who brings rescue to Israel from her oppressors. Paul’s argument in Romans 11 follows the same trajectory: Israel’s stumbling leads to Gentile salvation, Gentile salvation provokes Israel to jealousy, and Israel’s jealousy culminates in a national restoration brought about by Israel’s true sōtēr. In other words, the New Testament does not limit Jesus’ saving work to personal forgiveness; it also presents him as the royal deliverer who fulfills Israel’s hope for national redemption—precisely the kind of salvation a first‑century audience would associate with a sōtēr.
The prophets repeatedly speak of a future gathering of Israel’s “survivors”—a remnant preserved by God through judgment and exile. These survivors are not merely ethnic Israelites; they are the inwardly renewed, spiritually responsive members of the nation whom God calls his elect. This background helps us understand the New Testament expectation that, in the end, God will gather a Jewish remnant prepared to receive Jesus as both their physical deliverer and their spiritual Savior. Isaiah’s “survivors of Israel” (Isa. 10:20–22) and Zechariah’s purified remnant anticipate exactly what Paul describes in Romans 11: a future moment when Israel’s remnant—humbled, refined, and ready—turns to the Messiah in faith. These are the Jews who will welcome Jesus not only as the one who forgives their sins but also as the Davidic king who brings national restoration. In this way, the prophetic hope of a gathered remnant and Paul’s vision of Israel’s final salvation converge: God preserves a faithful core of his people who will embrace Jesus as the true *sōtēr*, the Savior of both their souls and their nation.
This is the best I can do without going verse by verse to explain every passage.
Yes, Jesus also tells His disciples this...
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He [a]takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
Contrary to this thread, for the first 400 years of the Church nobody has heard of the doctrine you talk about and for another 1500 years nobody had heard of the word calvinism. lol Okay.
Who has the patience to deal with these AI generated calvinist bots? Parroting the same garbage they heard from some scholar that has gotten refuted time and time again and has gotten embarrassed in every debate they have ever been in.
Believing the Gospel does not rob God of His glory.. He himself set the condition!!!
They twist everything pertaining to the plan of salvation.
Paul did not promote the free will of the natural man. He understood that person. FWers do not. They prove they do not
understand the natural man by continually ascribing to the natural man what is only possible of the spiritual man.
Romans 7 v 18-24a I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Can you quote anybody saying, or even implying, that they "take great joy seeing people go to hell?" I have never heard or read anybody, of whatever theological persuasion, say such a dreadful thing.
Leighton Flowers is doing a good job of it. It is a dying dusty relic of the 1500s for sure. The young restless and reformed are now Old atheist and bitter.
It is a fcat that FWers love misrepresenting.
With no Scriptures to back their claim that the man of flesh can please
God by generating faith, logical fallacies become their mainstay.
Scripture teaches that those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
Flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death.
They contradict and deny explicitly articulated verses. Regularly and repeatedly.
So many false premises. A call to believe is part of the gospel message. It is that message that God exercises His power through to bring people to faith. So the call is genuine whether God exercises His power or not.
If you are going to make a claim such as you have, please demonstrate how 90% of Genesis has been changed.
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