Calvinism is Gospel !

[pinebeach]

If you claim all the verses where God tells people to repent and turn yet they are incapable, yes you indeed are changing the plain meaning of the text. You have zero reading comprehesion when you read the Bible, yet you are capable of reading a novel or a news paper or watching a movie and when people are told to "come to me" you assume ability, yet when it comes to the Bible you stop behaving like a normal person and enter into some weird esoteric hidden interpretation nobody ever believed.

Not a single person has denied Jesus saying that. You keep spamming that as well, whining about people misrepresenting and lying and you do the same. What is wrong with you?

The allegations against others here are not reality. We are certainly not all liars, all blasphemers, all God haters, all unable to understand and so on. I don't find credibility in the assessment that because someone sees others as a threat, that freedom is given to say whatever comes to mind resulting in a barrage of words that prove absolutely nothing to anyone.

It is just one opportunity after another, to yell at others from the 'castle' of one's own imagination because it certainly is not fact and not the reality of others here. Disagreement is commone even among scholars. They do not call each other liars etc...at least most of them don't.

 

[Magenta]

Sounds a bit disingenuous.

Are you sure, just a "bit"?

 

[HeIsHere]

Finish the thought. The words of God are powerful for those who believe. This is where grace...God's power...is exercised.

People can and do believe IN/trust IN Christ Jesus, for His good faith offer when they pay heed to the Gospel message..no matter how many scriptures are plucked out of context and

eisegesis is performed on them, the fact remains that initial/simple faith is nowhere stated as a gift and being quickened prior to faith

is not a thing in scripture.

 

[Magenta]

No one is considering Calvinism when they are being saved.

People make up the most ridiculous things to prop up their fantasies.

 

[HeIsHere]

Leighton Flowers is doing a good job of it. It is a dying dusty relic of the 1500s for sure. The young restless and reformed are now Old atheist and bitter.

Very bitter!!!

 

[brightfame52]

So, are you saying that your status before the Lord is invisible? How does that work?

I dont even know what you talking about, you pulling rabbits out your hat now.

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

The young restless and reformed are now Old atheist and bitter.

So called "reformed theology" is doctrines of demons so at least they had sense enough to depart from that false gospel.

Sadly the blood of these people will be on the hands of those teaching that so called "reformed theology" which is doctrines of demons

 

[Cameron143]

Are you sure, just a "bit"?

My generosity knows no bounds.

 

[pinebeach]

I haven't commented on anyone's spiritual estate.

No one is considering Calvinism when they are being saved. Understanding how one is saved is not necessary to being saved.

Yes. I believe the giving of a new spirit and heart, and the Spirit indwelling an individual is subsequent to and the cause of an individual coming to faith.

I asked questions. I did not say what you did or did not do. You do make plain that you believe the Holy Spirit enters before conversion and that is what you project.

However, you did not answer this:

Do you accept that someone who asks Jesus to be their Savior and 'come into their heart' as a child might or an adult understanding that their sins have separated them from God accepts that Jesus died for their redemption are actually saved apart from Calvinism and will actually totally reject Calvinsim when it is presented to them?

Do you believe a person is 'saved' if they reject Calvinsim and believe their act of faith in Christ is what amounts to salvation? Understand I am not saying we say ourselves, rather I am basing the above on what I believe the Bible firmly states. Our works do not save us and nothing we can do ourselves, creates forgiveness of sin.

 

[Cameron143]

People can and do believe IN/trust IN Christ Jesus, for His good faith offer when they pay heed to the Gospel message..no matter how many scriptures are plucked out of context and

eisegesis is performed on them, the fact remains that initial/simple faith is nowhere stated as a gift and being quickened prior to faith

is not a thing in scripture.

Which is different than saying faith is not of God. If grace is the exercise of God's power and faith is the means God exercises the power through, both grace and faith proceed forth from God. He is the source of both. That's one reason why Christ is said to be the author and finisher of our faith...Hebrews 12:2.

 

[Magenta]

Which is different than saying faith is not of God. If grace is the exercise of God's power and faith is the means God exercises the power through, both grace and faith proceed forth from God. He is the source of both. That's one reason why Christ is said to be the author and finisher of our faith...Hebrews 12:2.

She is the type to say God does things for no good reason. She likes telling us how unfair He is.

God has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. Jesus Christ is the author and perfecter of my faith, which was not by my will, effort or desire.

 

[Cameron143]

I asked questions. I did not say what you did or did not do. You do make plain that you believe the Holy Spirit enters before conversion and that is what you project.

However, you did not answer this:

Do you accept that someone who asks Jesus to be their Savior and 'come into their heart' as a child might or an adult understanding that their sins have separated them from God accepts that Jesus died for their redemption are actually saved apart from Calvinism and will actually totally reject Calvinsim when it is presented to them?

Do you believe a person is 'saved' if they reject Calvinsim and believe their act of faith in Christ is what amounts to salvation? Understand I am not saying we say ourselves, rather I am basing the above on what I believe the Bible firmly states. Our works do not save us and nothing we can do ourselves, creates forgiveness of sin.

I did answer your question. What an individual believes about how salvation transpires is irrelevant to whether or not they are saved. If one truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, they are saved.

 

[HeIsHere]

Which is different than saying faith is not of God. If grace is the exercise of God's power and faith is the means God exercises the power through, both grace and faith proceed forth from God. He is the source of both. That's one reason why Christ is said to be the author and finisher of our faith...Hebrews 12:2.

Once again remove the highly individualist lens you bring to every verse in hopes it supports regeneration precedes faith.

Yes Jesus had a mission and He completed His mission and then stated "it is finished."
Our faith is based on the actions of Christ Jesus, as opposed to the sacrifices that never ended but need to be repeated.

 

[HeIsHere]

I did answer your question. What an individual believes about how salvation transpires is irrelevant to whether or not they are saved. If one truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, they are saved.

Only if they are quickened first... don't forget!!

 

[Roger316]

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Is John saying that fear is sinful?
John’s question is whether the fear of punishment is enough to please God. In the context, he’s talking specifically about the fear that God will judge us for failing to obey. That kind of fear is natural—punishment does motivate outward obedience—but it can never produce confidence before God. In fact, anyone who tries to please God primarily through obedience will always live with uncertainty, never knowing whether he has done enough to avoid judgment. John’s point is that love casts out fear because love changes the motivation entirely. Those who truly love God obey not to escape punishment but because their hearts are aligned with him. Love produces a settled assurance that fear never can. Fear keeps a person anxiously measuring his performance; love frees him to obey with confidence, knowing that God’s acceptance rests on relationship, not on endlessly trying to meet a standard he can never fully satisfy.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Is Paul saying that fear is sinful?
Here Paul is talking about timidity -- a lack of courage. Timothy is surrounded by his elders and people who seem to know something about Judaism, and as a young man in service, he is naturally a bit timid. Paul is instructing and encouraging Timothy to boldly speak the truth. Fear is not sinful, but a lack of courage is. It takes courage to boldly speak the truth, and those who shy away from the truth are displeasing to God.

Isaiah 41:10
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Is God saying that fear is sinful?
Isaiah tells Jacob's nation not to be afraid, reminding them that God is the all-powerful Lord and that he is on their side. In this context, the issue is not fear itself; it is cowardice. When God tells her not to be afraid, he means she should not hesitate to act when the time comes.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Is John saying that fear is sinful?
Cowardice appears in Revelation 21:8 not because fear itself is sinful, but because cowardice is the refusal to act in faith when confronted with fear. Scripture consistently treats fear as a normal human experience—something even the righteous feel—but cowardice is different: it is fear allowed to govern one’s choices, leading a person to abandon obedience, integrity, and trust in God. That is why John places it at the head of the list. Cowardice is the root from which the other sins grow, because once someone surrenders to fear rather than to God, they will compromise truth, embrace idolatry, distort morality, and ultimately choose self‑preservation over faithfulness. In that sense, cowardice is not merely one sin among many; it is the soil in which the rest of the sins in Revelation 21:8 take root and flourish.

 

[pinebeach]

I did answer your question. What an individual believes about how salvation transpires is irrelevant to whether or not they are saved. If one truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, they are saved.

No you did not.

Do you believe that people who reject Calvinsim and clones of Calvinism are saved if the totally reject the doctrine?

That is the question and if you do not answer it, I will conclude that you do not believe we are saved. Why else would you hesitate to answer something that is clearly defined ?

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

Our works do not save us

But, were you aware that after we get saved our works can disqualify us from entering in to God's Kingdom?
That is if we become carnal minded and we go back to walking after the flesh and start doing evil works.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are ORDAINED to walk in good works after getting saved. In fact, getting born again is the first good work all are called to and the Lord provides the power in which to accomplish receiving salvation as we can do all things THRU CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS US - notice it was the Lord's power we are receiving when we choose to believe.

Only those who are led by the Holy Ghost are the Sons of God.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

There's more to salvation than the initial conversion which is only the starting point.

Were you aware that Jesus said in John 15 that is we do not bare fruit (good works), the Father will cut us off the vine?

Jesus wouldn't lie about something like this, would He? Sadly the false teachers have taught many that Jesus did in fact lie in John 15 and they claim Jesus doesn't know what He's talking about. They got this from the devil.
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

*** Notice He is speaking to those IN HIM so he is not addressing this to sinners out in the world that never got born again being translated from darkness in to the Kingdom of God's Dear Son (Colossians 1:13)

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Mark 9:23
All things are possible to him that believeth

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

Do you believe that people who reject Calvinsim and clones of Calvinism are saved if the totally reject the doctrine?

Just like the catholics, they must say you can't be saved unless you agree with them.

If they say you can be saved without agreeing with them, then they just admitted that they don't really believe what they follow is true.

They can't have it both ways.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

If the natural man could generate faith, it would please God.

Those being in the flesh are not able to please God.

This is a huge flaw in their free will fantasy.

Well, one of very many, that is.

A. First of all, I think it is misleading to describe human beings as GENERATING, as if it were some kind of ability or power we can produce and utilize to save ourselves. It seems to me you are attempting to re-define FAITH as a sort of WORK even though Paul said clearly faith is not a work. I do not know WHY you said this but it seems consistent with Luther's idea that man is so helpless that he cannot repent and believe (though this was the gospel kerygma)

B. Of course, the Holy Spirit at times uses the mirror of the Law to reveal our inability. As long as we think we can reform ourselves and EARN right-standing with God we will keep trying and failing just as Paul did in Romans 7.

C. You mention something you call the free will fantasy. When I first began to study those who are called The Early Church Fathers, I found that they almost unanimously BELIEVED, TAUGHT and PROCLAIMED what you dismiss as the free will fantasy. Does it seem likely that, having sent the Apostles to make disciples of all nations, they (and the disciples they made) would, in less than a generation, abandon their belief in determinism only to return to them a generation, or so, later....
(1) completely forget about the "Doctrines of Grace"
(2) adopt free-will only to have their original belief in determinism be restored when Augustine came on the scene in the Fifth Century?

D. Is what the early Christian teachers believed and taught relevant? I think so,
Jude 1:3:....I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

E. Would it surprise you to learn that, for the first three centuries, the so-called "free will fantasy" was taught and believed and considered orthodox teaching. It was not until Augustine appeared in the FIFTH CENTURY that we begin to see anything resembling Reformed teaching and then it came from paganism.

 

[pinebeach]

The allegations against others here are not reality. We are certainly not all liars, all blasphemers, all God haters, all unable to understand and so on. I don't find credibility in the assessment that because someone sees others as a threat, that freedom is given to say whatever comes to mind resulting in a barrage of words that prove absolutely nothing to anyone.

If those who do not accept Calvinism and in fact, consider it spurious, in error, false etc, have the above accusations made against them, I would consider the person making the accusations does not believe anyone is saved UNLESS they follow Calvinsim or personalsim which follows a path in simlitude to it.