Calvinism is Gospel !

[Roger316]

I dont even know what you talking about, you pulling rabbits out your hat now.

The idea is quite simple. You believe that a person whom God is saving will not exhibit any behavior that will reveal their status. In other words, their status remains invisible.

 

[Roger316]

But, were you aware that after we get saved our works can disqualify us from entering in to God's Kingdom?
That is if we become carnal minded and we go back to walking after the flesh and start doing evil works.

That isn't true. Those who are saved are walking after the Spirit. There is no such thing as bouncing back and forth between the two.

 

[pinebeach]

Just like the catholics, they must say you can't be saved unless you agree with them.

If they say you can be saved without agreeing with them, then they just admitted that they don't really believe what they follow is true.

They can't have it both ways.

There are lots of isms that say that.

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

Paul said clearly faith is not a work.

Yeah, satan is been twisting what the Lord said thru Paul for a long time claiming faith is not a good work but it actually is.

Faith without works is not saving faith (corresponding action as though one actually believes what they claim they believe)

There's a reason why the heretic Martin Luther falsely claimed the Book of James was of the devil.

Luther claimed that because HE was of the devil.

 

[pinebeach]

Well, nothing like clearing the air.

 

[rogerg]

Paul’s point in Romans 11:11ff centers on physical Israel, not a symbolic “spiritual Israel,” because the entire sequence he describes depends on the real historical actions of ethnic Israel. It was physical Israel that transgressed, rejecting the Messiah, and Paul explicitly says that their transgression opened the door for Gentile salvation. That salvation, in turn, had a specific purpose: to provoke Israel—the same group that stumbled—to jealousy. The logic only works if Paul is speaking about the same, literal people group at every step: the Israel that sinned, the Israel that sees Gentiles receiving what they expected, and the Israel that is meant to be stirred to return to God. A symbolic “spiritual Israel” cannot transgress, cannot be contrasted with Gentiles, and cannot be made jealous by Gentile inclusion. Paul’s argument depends entirely on the historical, physical nation of Israel and God’s ongoing plan for them.

God has not abandoned the earthly nation of Israel insofar as He still is spiritually removing His elect from it -
they are spiritually taken FROM earthly Israel as their point of departure, but not as their point of arrival: spiritually, they will never ever return back to it as being their spiritual headship. Those who become saved, regardless of from whence they originated, become citizens of spiritual Israel, permanently leaving behind earthly point of departure. It's the point of arrival that matters, not their point of departure. Everyone of spiritual Israel came from somewhere else. But by the very fact that they of Rom 11 were taken away from the earthly Israel, testifies that the Israel had lost it significance with God or He wouldn't have allowed them to be spiritually taken from it - just like He will not allow anyone to be taken from spiritual Israel. And regarding Mat 23:36 - 39 the earthly nation of Israel is being referred to by it.

[Rev 5:9 KJV]
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

esus as the "Savior King."
In the Greek and Roman world, a **sōtēr** was a “savior‑king” or “savior‑prince,” a ruler who delivered his people from military threat, political chaos, or national humiliation. Emperors, generals, and benefactors were praised as *sōtēres* because they rescued the nation from its enemies and restored peace. This cultural backdrop helps explain the New Testament’s language about Jesus as **Savior**. Yes, he saves his people from their sins, but Luke’s opening chapters show that his role is also royal and national: he is the promised Davidic king who brings deliverance to **Israel**. Zechariah blesses God for raising up “a horn of salvation” to save Israel from her enemies and from all who hate her (Luke 1:69–71), and Simeon rejoices that Jesus is God’s salvation for Israel and the nations (Luke 2:30–32). In other words, the New Testament uses the familiar Greco‑Roman idea of a savior‑king but fills it with Israel’s messianic hope: Jesus is the true *sōtēr* who brings both spiritual forgiveness and national deliverance.

First, only scripture should be used as its own dictionary with it defining its own terms and not rest upon earthly, man-made definitions for understanding.
Second, there are clearly TWO Israels identified in scripture, not one. So just by saying "Israel", in itself, is insufficient. Therefore, we must be careful to find out which one is in view within any given verse. This is achieved by comparing scripture with scripture through the auspices of the Holy Spirit working within us. A good hint was given in Gal 6:15-16 (above). It should go a long way to decipher that it alone is the Israel of God alone or He would not have written that in that way - it would present a logical contradiction for both Israels to be God's eternal Israel. The earthly Israel was a temporary covenant partner that pointed to the ultimate, true Israel. The one He permanently marries in the New Covenant—His true Bride—is the one that inherits the eternal blessings, while the rejected, unbelieving earthly house does not.

The prophets repeatedly speak of a future gathering of Israel’s “survivors”—a remnant preserved by God through judgment and exile. These survivors are not merely ethnic Israelites; they are the inwardly renewed, spiritually responsive members of the nation whom God calls his elect. This background helps us understand the New Testament expectation that, in the end, God will gather a Jewish remnant prepared to receive Jesus as both their physical deliverer and their spiritual Savior. Isaiah’s “survivors of Israel” (Isa. 10:20–22) and Zechariah’s purified remnant anticipate exactly what Paul describes in Romans 11: a future moment when Israel’s remnant—humbled, refined, and ready—turns to the Messiah in faith. These are the Jews who will welcome Jesus not only as the one who forgives their sins but also as the Davidic king who brings national restoration. In this way, the prophetic hope of a gathered remnant and Paul’s vision of Israel’s final salvation converge: God preserves a faithful core of his people who will embrace Jesus as the true *sōtēr*, the Savior of both their souls and their nation.

Again, you didn't provide scripture and verse to evaluate your assertion. We need to dig deeply into scripture to know which Israel is in view because the distinction isn't always immediately obvious. We shouldn't just blindly go by the name 'Israel,' because scripture frequently refers to spiritual Israel even in the Old Testament, though its final form had not been fully revealed yet. A great way to determine which Israel is in view is to look at whether human works are attached to the promise. If human works and legal conditions are required, then the text is addressing earthly Israel under the old system. But if the promise rests entirely on God's sovereign grace—driven by His unconditional 'I will' statements—then it is addressing His spiritual Israel, the elect who are eternally secured by Christ."

This is the best I can do without going verse by verse to explain every passage.

Guess what? We all have the same problem.

 

[Magenta]

You are so dishonest. Why didn't you post my entire response? Oh yeah, it would reveal no contradiction.

It is not contradictory to say a call is genuine AND that God may not exercise power through the call.

SO DISHONEST. You really should be ashamed.

She has no shame. She repeats the same lies over and over again.

 

[brightfame52]

The idea is quite simple. You believe that a person whom God is saving will not exhibit any behavior that will reveal their status. In other words, their status remains invisible.

Im not talking about what men do, how many times do I have to say that ?

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

Living in Calvin's Geneva was a very dangerous thing. He was prone to ridding the city of those in opposition to his doctrine.

Yep, he was like a mafia don and would put out a hit on people and have them whacked.

 

[Magenta]

Would it surprise you to learn that, for the first three centuries, the so-called "free will fantasy" was taught and believed and considered orthodox teaching. It was not until Augustine appeared in the FIFTH CENTURY that we begin to see anything resembling Reformed teaching and then it came from paganism.

Paul did not teach free will of the natural man (the man not in Christ). We are set free in Christ.

 

[pinebeach]

No you did not.

Do you believe that people who reject Calvinsim and clones of Calvinism are saved if the totally reject the doctrine?

That is the question and if you do not answer it, I will conclude that you do not believe we are saved. Why else would you hesitate to answer something that is clearly defined ?

If the doctrine insists the Holy Spirit enters before salvation, (yet proves no evidence of it) what evidence can be provided to show salvation? It's really a cache 22

 

[pinebeach]

Yep, he was like a mafia don and would put out a hit on people and have them whacked.

That is not what actually occurred. smh

 

[Magenta]

Yep, he was like a mafia don and would put out a hit on people and have them whacked.

Like Paul, who hypocrites defend for doing essentially the same thing Calvin did.

Except the hypocrites usually lie their faces off about Calvin and say he was a murderer.

One of them said Paul could not personally commit murder because he was a pharisee. LOL

Like that magically exempts him from being able to break the law???

You guys crack me up.

 

[Anchorite]

Is John saying that fear is sinful?



Is Paul saying that fear is sinful?
Here Paul is talking about timidity -- a lack of courage.


Is God saying that fear is sinful?
Isaiah tells Jacob's nation not to be afraid, reminding them that God is the all-powerful Lord and that he is on their side.


Is John saying that fear is sinful?

Is disobeying God sinful?

If God commands us to not fear, is fear disobedience to God?

If God did not give us a spirit of fear, where does it come from?

If the fearful will be cast into the lake of fire, is fearfulness righteous or sinful?

 

[Magenta]

If the fearful will be cast into the lake of fire, is fearfulness righteous or sinful?

What is the fate of all liars? They too are included in that list you provided.

 

[Roger316]

Im not talking about what men do, how many times do I have to say that ?

You should talk about what men do because that is what scripture talks about.

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

That is not what actually occurred. smh

Yeah, it is what actually occurred.

Calvin did with his fake version of Christianity what the moslems do with their religion which is to turn their religion in to governmental tyranny

 

[Cameron143]

Once again remove the highly individualist lens you bring to every verse in hopes it supports regeneration precedes faith.

Yes Jesus had a mission and He completed His mission and then stated "it is finished."
Our faith is based on the actions of Christ Jesus, as opposed to the sacrifices that never ended but need to be repeated.

The source of both salvation and faith is God.

 

[Magenta]

The source of both salvation and faith is God.

You know she denies faith being a gift.

1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

 

[pinebeach]

Yeah, it is what actually occurred.

Calvin did with his fake version of Christianity what the moslems do with their religion which is to turn their religion in to governmental tyranny

Well then, create your own posts and don't quote me because I prefer facts. Sometimes the ignore feature really does help.