Jesus' Methodology for verifying beliefs, responses, doctrines, ... are "Incorrect"

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GWH said:
Yes, because it is good/right to connect Rom. 1:20 with Matt. 7:7 in order to indicate how God’s love and plan of salvation are universal in scope. In this connection or vein I find the Parable of the Talents to be instructive. Do you see why/agree?
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We have been given enough to receive a love of the truth which always results in ongoing seeking, knocking, asking, proving all things over and over always holding fast to what is being proven good/true, ... which eventually will result in salvation and receiving the Holy Spirit. Luk 11:9-13(13). These are the ongoing fruits that will eventually get us to the narrow gate to life, i.e. faith in the truth. These fruits also result in God's continuing to seek us Joh. 4:23-24 while He hardens all the rest into the beliefs they love. 2Th. 2:11

Mat 25:15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; ​

All are guaranteed to have been given enough "from God" we could "choose" to receive a love of the truth so as to be saved. We have "no excuse" Rom. 1:20, because God was faithful to get us everything we need to receive a love of the truth, should we so choose to do so. 2Th. 2:10-13 and God will let all those without saving faith judge whether or not this is true. Rom. 3:3-4

Yet, not everyone has the same capabilities. A "Fruit" of the saved is that they are continuously working to figure out their incorrect beliefs, change them and live in accordance with them. No beliefs are set in stone. Their pursuit of truth is endless, and so they keep on improving their ongoing fruits for the kingdom till the day they die. But again, we start out with different knowledge, understandings, different beliefs, backgrounds.

What might take you days to figure out, and start living in accordance with, might take me 20 years. You will produce far more because you started at a different level with different capabilities. Those are the "talents" you were given. The "talents" I was given may be far less, thus the end results will be far less than yours, yet, I also, as long as I stay in the pursuit, will hear the exact same thing, "Well done good and faithful servant."

We all receive everything we need from God Himself to make the correct choice. We all receive at least that "one" "talent". We all get to the point where we can choose one or the other. 2Th. 2:10-12 Those making the wrong choice still have what was given to them to get to the "Choice" in 2Th. 10:10 they just bury it in the sand till judgment day.

That would be my take on things. Doesn't mean I'm right though.
 
EmethAlethia said:
We have been given enough to receive a love of the truth which always results in ongoing seeking, knocking, asking, proving all things over and over always holding fast to what is being proven good/true, ... which eventually will result in salvation and receiving the Holy Spirit. Luk 11:9-13(13). These are the ongoing fruits that will eventually get us to the narrow gate to life, i.e. faith in the truth. These fruits also result in God's continuing to seek us Joh. 4:23-24 while He hardens all the rest into the beliefs they love. 2Th. 2:11

Mat 25:15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; ​

All are guaranteed to have been given enough "from God" we could "choose" to receive a love of the truth so as to be saved. We have "no excuse" Rom. 1:20, because God was faithful to get us everything we need to receive a love of the truth, should we so choose to do so. 2Th. 2:10-13 and God will let all those without saving faith judge whether or not this is true. Rom. 3:3-4

Yet, not everyone has the same capabilities. A "Fruit" of the saved is that they are continuously working to figure out their incorrect beliefs, change them and live in accordance with them. No beliefs are set in stone. Their pursuit of truth is endless, and so they keep on improving their ongoing fruits for the kingdom till the day they die. But again, we start out with different knowledge, understandings, different beliefs, backgrounds.

What might take you days to figure out, and start living in accordance with, might take me 20 years. You will produce far more because you started at a different level with different capabilities. Those are the "talents" you were given. The "talents" I was given may be far less, thus the end results will be far less than yours, yet, I also, as long as I stay in the pursuit, will hear the exact same thing, "Well done good and faithful servant."

We all receive everything we need from God Himself to make the correct choice. We all receive at least that "one" "talent". We all get to the point where we can choose one or the other. 2Th. 2:10-12 Those making the wrong choice still have what was given to them to get to the "Choice" in 2Th. 10:10 they just bury it in the sand till judgment day.

That would be my take on things. Doesn't mean I'm right though.
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That sounds right enough, but in connection with Rom. 1:20 and Matt. 7:7 it seems logical to view talents as revelation:
those given only one talent only knew creation; those given two talents knew the OT, and those given five knew the NT.
Those who reject the NT Gospel of Christ will be justly judged more harshly than those who only rejected God as Creator.
Do you agree that is a reasonable application of the parable? Doesn't mean we are wrong either. We walk by rational faith.
 
GWH said:
That sounds right enough, but in connection with Rom. 1:20 and Matt. 7:7 it seems logical to view talents as revelation:
those given only one talent only knew creation; those given two talents knew the OT, and those given five knew the NT.
Those who reject the NT Gospel of Christ will be justly judged more harshly than those who only rejected God as Creator.
Do you agree that is a reasonable application of the parable? Doesn't mean we are wrong either. We walk by rational faith.
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This took a while to think through... but ... those who receive a love of the truth are continuously in the process of seeking, knocking, asking, proving all things over, and over, and over again, and are always altering their beliefs to fit what is being proven good/true. And God promises to get all who receive it to the truth of salvation and to seal them into Himself with the Holy Spirit. Luk. 11:9-13(13), Eph. 1:13-14 And it is only these whom God the Father keeps on continuously seeking until they do get saved. Joh. 4:23-24 Everyone else, believing they are Christian, or not, is "perishing", and thus cannot even see the true gospel 2Co. 4:3-4, and is being hardened into what they "want to believe" "as" truth, by God Himself. 2Th. 2:11

From what I see, so far, it matters not whether you start with no scripture at all, or with just the Old Testament, or with both testaments. It matters not whether you are raised by Hitler or by the Pope, or anyone else, for that matter.

If you reject a love of the truth, even if you start out being raised perfectly in the knowledge of all the scriptures say and mean, you will believe lies as truth, the truth is lies, you will perish and you cannot even see the true gospel at all. Starting point matters none at all. Everyone who loves truth will have the fruits of that love and will get there. Everyone else will have the fruits of loving their beliefs and will die with their beliefs intact unless they choose to receive a love of the truth.

Does this make sense? It doesn't seem to align with your view of the parable though.
 
EmethAlethia said:
This took a while to think through... but ... those who receive a love of the truth are continuously in the process of seeking, knocking, asking, proving all things over, and over, and over again, and are always altering their beliefs to fit what is being proven good/true. And God promises to get all who receive it to the truth of salvation and to seal them into Himself with the Holy Spirit. Luk. 11:9-13(13), Eph. 1:13-14 And it is only these whom God the Father keeps on continuously seeking until they do get saved. Joh. 4:23-24 Everyone else, believing they are Christian, or not, is "perishing", and thus cannot even see the true gospel 2Co. 4:3-4, and is being hardened into what they "want to believe" "as" truth, by God Himself. 2Th. 2:11

From what I see, so far, it matters not whether you start with no scripture at all, or with just the Old Testament, or with both testaments. It matters not whether you are raised by Hitler or by the Pope, or anyone else, for that matter.

If you reject a love of the truth, even if you start out being raised perfectly in the knowledge of all the scriptures say and mean, you will believe lies as truth, the truth is lies, you will perish and you cannot even see the true gospel at all. Starting point matters none at all. Everyone who loves truth will have the fruits of that love and will get there. Everyone else will have the fruits of loving their beliefs and will die with their beliefs intact unless they choose to receive a love of the truth.

Does this make sense? It doesn't seem to align with your view of the parable though.
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Correct about the misalignment. Although it is possible to be saved despite ungodly circumstances, it seems more likely that those raised by loving Christian parents will learn to value truth.
 
GWH said:
Correct about the misalignment. Although it is possible to be saved despite ungodly circumstances, it seems more likely that those raised by loving Christian parents will learn to value truth.
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Oddly, you would think Jesus' brothers and sisters, raised in the same home with Jesus, would be most likely to become His followers early on. But they actually were in a group mocking him in one passage John 7:1-10 I believe. Are you familiar with the PK designation? "Preachers Kids"? Guess who usually was responsible for the most rebellious and off the wall antics in churches? The new converts from the druggie parents? Nope. Unfortunately, it's the difference between being given a car, and saving up for three years to buy one. The PK's had all the teaching and training from an early age, and have no appreciation for it. They feel smothered from it and w2ant to break free.

Jesus' brothers and sisters didn't much care for mister perfect Brother and His perfect responses, all that much. I struggled, hungered, fought, ... and poured my life into my labors to get just a small portion of what they were raised with. I appreciate what I have and continue to strive for more. They, immersed in it from birth, for the most part, just want to get free from it. Weird, isn't it. I am much happier with my upbringing, while spiritually barren, because it taught me to thirst for such things.
 
EmethAlethia said:
Oddly, you would think Jesus' brothers and sisters, raised in the same home with Jesus, would be most likely to become His followers early on. But they actually were in a group mocking him in one passage John 7:1-10 I believe. Are you familiar with the PK designation? "Preachers Kids"? Guess who usually was responsible for the most rebellious and off the wall antics in churches? The new converts from the druggie parents? Nope. Unfortunately, it's the difference between being given a car, and saving up for three years to buy one. The PK's had all the teaching and training from an early age, and have no appreciation for it. They feel smothered from it and w2ant to break free.

Jesus' brothers and sisters didn't much care for mister perfect Brother and His perfect responses, all that much. I struggled, hungered, fought, ... and poured my life into my labors to get just a small portion of what they were raised with. I appreciate what I have and continue to strive for more. They, immersed in it from birth, for the most part, just want to get free from it. Weird, isn't it. I am much happier with my upbringing, while spiritually barren, because it taught me to thirst for such things.
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Odd that you ignore me also saying that the Parable of the Talents also indicates those who spurned their better birthright will reap greater punishment.

Your reward is more valued because of the suffering involved (Matt. 5:10, 1Pet. 1:3-9), but I realize that truth without experiencing it directly (because of my plan-A parents and living in the rather good old USA), which empathy increases my appreciation for God's blessing of salvation also. Yay!
 
GWH said:
Odd that you ignore me also saying that the Parable of the Talents also indicates those who spurned their better birthright will reap greater punishment.

Your reward is more valued because of the suffering involved (Matt. 5:10, 1Pet. 1:3-9), but I realize that truth without experiencing it directly (because of my plan-A parents and living in the rather good old USA), which empathy increases my appreciation for God's blessing of salvation also. Yay!
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I see the parable of the talents to be about what God has given to each man with regards to knowledge, ability, ... and what those who are faithful do with them. All of those entering into the joy of their Master utilize those things for the kingdom that He put in their possession for the purpose of expanding the kingdom.

I see the servant who buried his talent in the ground as one of the tares in the church. They know a lot, but they do nothing with it.

Mat. 5:10 and 1Pe. 1:3-9 are about everyone who is a true Christian, i.e. those with the correct ongoing habitual fruits, being persecuted in this world. It is an ongoing "Fruit" or result of their being Christians. All Christians receive this to varying degrees, for sure, but all Christians out doing His work will be persecuted.
 
EmethAlethia said:
I see the parable of the talents to be about what God has given to each man with regards to knowledge, ability, ... and what those who are faithful do with them. All of those entering into the joy of their Master utilize those things for the kingdom that He put in their possession for the purpose of expanding the kingdom.

I see the servant who buried his talent in the ground as one of the tares in the church. They know a lot, but they do nothing with it.

Mat. 5:10 and 1Pe. 1:3-9 are about everyone who is a true Christian, i.e. those with the correct ongoing habitual fruits, being persecuted in this world. It is an ongoing "Fruit" or result of their being Christians. All Christians receive this to varying degrees, for sure, but all Christians out doing His work will be persecuted.
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Yes, I do not remember what prompted me to have the insight that the talents can be viewed as type/dispensation of revelation: general, OT & NT Gospel.
 
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