baptism is the means of receiving this grace
the grace of justification
born again by water and the spirit Jn 3:5
thks
Saved by faith alone?
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the grace of justification
born again by water and the spirit Jn 3:5
thks
Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (what happened to baptism?) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace (what happened to baptism?) in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (what happened to baptism?) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh based on the answer of Nicodemus to Jesus. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth accompanied by amniotic "water" and the second is Spirit.
There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.
Now if "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.
Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you
have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days
you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Do you know that Peter totally forgot the words of Jesus until we get to Acts 11?
Acts 11:15-17
“As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized
with the Holy Spirit.’ So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord
Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
Up until then? The new way of water baptism being replaced by Spirit baptism had totally slipped Peter's mind.
Peter was obsessed just like you are now obsessed with water baptism.
Don't feel bad.
As you can read.
Even Peter made that mistake.
We all will make em.
It is a major part of growing in Christ while outgrowing our old ways of traditional thinking.
Matthew 16:24-25
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself
and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but
whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "
When shown truth?
If we try to save our way of life in thinking church traditions of man?
We will lose our new life to be found in truth that exposes the error.
If we are feeling ashamed by being exposed?
We need to deny self and take up our own cross.
The old must die, so the new life in Christ may be made alive in us!
For whoever would save his life will lose it, but
whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "
grace and peace .........
Stop answering questions with questions.
Again, what is your answer to post # 2832?
If you have no intent to answer, just don't respond.
all apostles are sent to teach and to sanctify by baptism including Paul
he is saying he not sent to baptize primarily but he has no argument against baptism
gal 3:27
1 cor 12:13
thks
You cannot mandate or command a metaphysical event such as spirit baptism.
Your defense is silly.
I answered in detail here: https://christianchat.com/threads/saved-by-faith-alone.211849/post-5777910
"Automatically"?
What do you think Jesus was doing with water before and after this verse?
Was He not water baptizing for the remission of sins those who believed?
Jesus continued on with the water baptism ministry of John the Baptist.
The ministry of water baptism for the remission of sins by Jesus even surpassed that of John the Baptist.
John 4:1-2
Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
What does Spirit baptism mean to you?
All believers have all been baptized by the Spirit when we are saved.
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles,
slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." 1 Corinthians 12:13
In Christ....
It seems you are implying that Peter was now commanding Spirit Baptism in place of water baptism for the remission of sins.
Am I correct?
But John the Baptist's water baptism type ministry was to end when the new Church age began.
But, not all stopped in the beginning because it was all new to them, and they had not yet been shown of the changes!
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have
heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be
baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:4-5
Not everybody knew of the change that suddenly took place the day the Church age began.
Not until some time passed, and teachings became known to them as to the change.
Because you are reading about how they were still thinking in a wrong way?
Does not mean we are to follow it. We need to learn from what was going on.
......
We do not command Spirit baptism.
We command that they believe in Jesus Christ as the means to receive the Spirit baptism.
Peter slipped up for a while.
He had been used to water baptisms as away of life for him.
Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing
more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples." John 4:1-2
I suppose many do not realize that Peter and the disciples, before the Church age began, were water baptizing people many times.
Even more than John the Baptist had been!
So when Peter exploded on the scene of the Church age, he was needing to have a major overhaul and change in what his thinking had been. Peter made mistakes for that reason.
The Bible recorded mistakes believers made.
Even Paul made mistakes and it almost cost him his life.
And, we?
We have to rightly handle the Word of God as to avoid being an ashamed workman,
by not thinking their mistakes were acts of God.
grace and peace ...........
The Holy Spirit is the gift promised to those who are water baptized for the remission of sins.
Acts 2:38
Peter told them, “You must repent and every one of you must be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ, so that you may have your sins forgiven and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For this great promise is for you and your children—yes, and for all who are far away, for as many as the Lord our God shall call to himself!”
"Spirit baptism" is a term describing a metaphysical event that is not, cannot and has not been seen outside the New Testament age.
IOW, it's a term that whatever the next Pentecostal says it is.
Now that I have answered your question, answer this.
What defines spirit baptism to you.\?
You mean John the Baptist and Jesus Christ water baptism ministry was to end when the new Church age began.
There is nothing in your verses that state that water baptism for the remission of sins was to end.
After the Apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit they were still water baptizing for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38
The Apostles were not commanding people to be "spirit baptized" for the forgiveness of sins.
No one can command such a thing.
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus.
There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance.
He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” Acts 19:1-4
Water baptisms were used for telling people to believe in the one coming after John the Baptist.
The ritual carried over into the early days of the Church because it became the habitual way prior to the Cross.
When Pentecost took place?
There was NO NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES YET!
There was nothing in writing to learn about the NEW Church age life from.
So, the temporary gifts God used as proof of an actual reality. One that had yet to be defined.
Once the NT Scriptures were complete?
The need for the gifts were no longer the same.
In regard to water baptism with the ministry of John the Baptist, in Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water "for" repentance.. Was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance? OR was this baptism for "in regard to/on the basis of" remission of sins received upon repentance? Getting water baptized in order to obtain repentance makes no sense at all. Repentance "precedes" water baptism. Hence, "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4)
Now by the time we get down to water baptism in John 3:22, Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 -After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in context with verse 5 are verses 14-18.
John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
Hey! If an enemy ever invades our land?
Make sure to keep a loaded musket and your powder dry.
And, please, keep your horse well-fed and rested.
That is how some see our present day spiritual warfare situation.
Because when they read what the pioneers of the Church age did, and want to do likewise.
Do you understand the difference between water baptism/H20 that reaches the flesh (John 4:1-2) and living water that reaches the heart? (John 4:10-14)
As I said, the early church (Acts 2) followed the physical water baptism.
Jesus will baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire!
John's water baptism was fulfilled by Jesus because John came before Jesus.