Loss of salvation???

[EmethAlethia]

Hebrews 6:3–8 (ESV): 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Well, let's see ... This is one of the very few points I agree with Calvinists on. First, if the author of Hebrews isn't the author of 1 Corinthians, I will be shocked.

It's almost a direct repeat of 1Co. 3:10-15.

Are these people "Cursed" i.e. headed for hell in Heb. 6:8?

What is burned up in the Heb. passage? What is burned up in the 1Co. passage? Are the people in either passage lost and headed for hell?

 

[EmethAlethia]

Hebrews 10:26–31 (ESV): 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

"Knowledge" doesn't save. Only "Faith in the truth" with regards to God and salvation saves. Knowledge increases judgment for those who choose to disobey

Luk 12:47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

and failure to obey doesn't indicate they were ever true Christians in the first place.

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

It is evidence of never having been a true Christian. Knowledge only increases judgment. It does not save, regardless of the profession of beliefs or even the possession of the same exact signs and wonders the true Christians of the first century possessed.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' 24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

 

[Roger316]

I don’t disagree that these form a specific sequential chain, but I would disagree that this chain must be describing only "God’s completed saving work from His perspective.” As a timeless presentation, it would have fractal applications - applicable over any period of time, short or long.
I think Paul is trying to encourage his audience to trust God to continue to work with them in the present and the future until the consummation of the process, with the same grace as He has shown toward us all in the past. Before we were saved He foreknew us as sinners, He predestinated us for Christlikeness; He was calling us to fellowship with Him and was justifying us by overlooking our sins and reaching out to us regardless of our sins; He was not treat us a worthless, but was glorying us, attributing value to us, so much so that one of the Godhead became like us and continued to offer us friendship even while we were slaying Him for offering it to us.

If this is God’s attitude to sinners, how much more will he be willing to do to complete the process of growing us fully into the image of Himself., from glory to glory until the resurrection and beyond, by applying the same sequence to us over and over again?
Whom He foreknows he predestinates, and whom He predestines He calls, and whom He calls He justifies, and whom He justifies He glorifies.

I do not think Paul has only in mind a series of benchmarks that end with our final glorification. The passage to me has a much broader, ongoing and comprehensive scope and intention than this moment of change happens, then that moment of change, then the next moment of change… until some final moment of change.

I agree with your idea that the chain takes place over time. The key idea is that Paul uses the aorist not to flatten time, but to treat each stage of salvation as a settled, completed reality in God’s purpose. That’s what gives the chain its force.

Paul’s sequence does unfold across time, but the aorist tense presents each link as a settled “given” in God’s saving purpose. The effect is to draw a straight, unbroken line from foreknowledge to glorification. It is as if Paul is saying: “If you are foreknown by God, then your calling is certain; and if you are called, your justification is certain; and if you are justified, your glorification is certain.” The aorist verbs function like fixed points in God’s completed plan, giving the reader confidence that none who begin this chain will fail to reach its end.

This is very encouraging.

 

[PaulThomson]

I agree with your idea that the chain takes place over time. The key idea is that Paul uses the aorist not to flatten time, but to treat each stage of salvation as a settled, completed reality in God’s purpose. That’s what gives the chain its force.

Paul’s sequence does unfold across time, but the aorist tense presents each link as a settled “given” in God’s saving purpose. The effect is to draw a straight, unbroken line from foreknowledge to glorification. It is as if Paul is saying: “If you are foreknown by God, then your calling is certain; and if you are called, your justification is certain; and if you are justified, your glorification is certain.” The aorist verbs function like fixed points in God’s completed plan, giving the reader confidence that none who begin this chain will fail to reach its end.

This is very encouraging.

I don’t see how treating “each stage of salvation as a settled, completed reality in God’s purpose’ has more “force“ than treating the chain as a recurring modus operandi by which God interacts moment by moment and also over transformative periods of our lives.

If one is desperate to find a assurances in scripture that one can never fall short of the first resurrection once one believes, I guess interpreting the chain as such a guarantee would be very encouraging. However, the grammar and syntax don’t make that interpretation settled.

I find it encouraging to know that even though we are all foreknown "warts and all" before we hear the gospel, God’s determination is for us to become His children, and He is constantly calling, justifying and glorifying us even in our unsaved state, in order to remove from between ourselves and Him any barriers, on His side, to us coming to Him as our Father trusting that He will not reject any broken and contrite spirit, no matter what our history entails. This is a reality that the gnomic aorist verbs here can also be communicating. And I personally find this interpretation much more forceful than your own. Also, it does not depend on arbitrarily desiring and assuming and overlaying a once-save-always-saved soteriology onto the text.

 

[Roger316]

I don’t see how treating “each stage of salvation as a settled, completed reality in God’s purpose’ has more “force“ than treating the chain as a recurring modus operandi by which God interacts moment by moment and also over transformative periods of our lives.

If one is desperate to find a assurances in scripture that one can never fall short of the first resurrection once one believes, I guess interpreting the chain as such a guarantee would be very encouraging. However, the grammar and syntax don’t make that interpretation settled.

I find it encouraging to know that even though we are all foreknown "warts and all" before we hear the gospel, God’s determination is for us to become His children, and He is constantly calling, justifying and glorifying us even in our unsaved state, in order to remove from between ourselves and Him any barriers, on His side, to us coming to Him as our Father trusting that He will not reject any broken and contrite spirit, no matter what our history entails. This is a reality that the gnomic aorist verbs here can also be communicating. And I personally find this interpretation much more forceful than your own. Also, it does not depend on arbitrarily desiring and assuming and overlaying a once-save-always-saved soteriology onto the text.

The Context of Romans 8: Paul’s Argument Is About the Certainty of God’s Purpose
Romans 8 is not a meditation on God’s general saving posture toward humanity. It is a tightly constructed argument designed to answer a specific question raised in 8:18–27:

How can believers be certain that the glory to come will actually be theirs, given the suffering of the present age?

Paul’s answer is not:

• “God is always calling you.”
• “God is continually justifying you.”
• “God is constantly glorifying you.”

Paul’s answer is:

• God’s purpose cannot be thwarted.
• Those whom He foreknew…He also glorified.

And he immediately reinforces this with the rhetorical barrage of 8:31–39:

• If God is for us, who can be against us?
• Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect?
• Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?”
• I am convinced that neither death nor life…nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God.

Paul’s point is emphatic:
No created thing—including the human subject—can thwart God’s saving purpose.

To reinterpret the golden chain as a “recurring modus operandi” is to detach it from the very argument it is designed to support.

The Grammar: Why Paul Uses Aorists
The aorists in 8:29–30 are not gnomic. They are **constative aorists** used to present God’s saving purpose as a single, unified, completed reality from the standpoint of God’s decree.

The chain is:

- Foreknew (aorist)
- Predestined (aorist)
- Called (aorist)
- Justified (aorist)
- Glorified (aorist)

The final verb—**glorified**—is especially decisive. Paul uses an aorist for a future event because he is describing it **from the vantage point of God’s completed purpose**, not from the vantage point of human experience.

This is why the chain has force:
Paul collapses the entire process of salvation into a single divine act.

To reinterpret these as “ongoing divine actions” is to flatten Paul’s rhetorical strategy and to ignore the perfective aspect of the aorist.

Paul’s logic is:

1. God’s purpose is unbreakable (29–30).
2. Therefore no one can bring a charge (33).
3. Therefore no one can condemn (34).
4. Therefore nothing can separate (35–39).

If the chain is not unbreakable, then:

- charges can be brought
- condemnation is possible
- separation is conceivable

Paul’s argument becomes incoherent.

The alternative reading of Romans 8:29–30 is not driven by the grammar or the context. It is driven by a theological need to preserve the possibility that God’s saving purpose can be thwarted by human choice. Paul’s use of the aorist verbs, his sequential logic, and his climactic declaration that nothing in creation can separate believers from God’s love all point to the opposite conclusion: **God’s saving purpose is certain, unbreakable, and completed in His decree.**

 

[PaulThomson]

The Context of Romans 8: Paul’s Argument Is About the Certainty of God’s Purpose
Romans 8 is not a meditation on God’s general saving posture toward humanity. It is a tightly constructed argument designed to answer a specific question raised in 8:18–27:

How can believers be certain that the glory to come will actually be theirs, given the suffering of the present age?

That question appears nowhere, nor is implied anywhere, in Rom. 8:18-27. Please, explain to us why you are seeing it there.

 

[PaulThomson]

Paul’s point is emphatic:
No created thing—including the human subject—can thwart God’s saving purpose.

Paul does not seem to me to be saying “no created thing” in Rom 8:39. There seems no need to suppose that the form of "hE ktisis" in Rom. 8:39 means anything different from its forms used by Paul in Rom. 1:25; 8:19, 20, 21 and 22. The entire universe seems to fit in all of those texts.
In other words,
"Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
So Paul seems to be saying that God will love on us throughout the entire existence of this universe, and beyond this one’s dissolution in fervent heat into the next creation, and into all those creations that follow that one, ad infinitum.

 

[Roger316]

That question appears nowhere, nor is implied anywhere, in Rom. 8:18-27. Please, explain to us why you are seeing it there.

In my ears, Paul's meaning is obvious, so I'm uncertain why you would question what I said. I'll give it a try, but since I don't know what your objection is, I might not address it.

In the immediate context, Paul says that Christians will suffer just as Christ did.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

When a believer suffers, especially under the scrutiny of respected voices—family, friends, even religious authorities—it can create a crisis of confidence. A person may be fully convinced of the truth, yet the very fact that trusted people oppose or question that conviction can make the truth feel fragile. Paul’s point in Romans 8 is that suffering and opposition are not signals that one’s hope is false or that glorification is in jeopardy. The Spirit bears witness precisely in the midst of these pressures, assuring the believer that their suffering is not evidence of abandonment but evidence of belonging. Opposition does not disprove the path; it is often the mark of walking the same path Christ Himself walked.

Paul’s reassurance in the latter half of Romans 8 is precisely aimed at that fear—the fear that suffering might break us, overwhelm us, or force us to capitulate. He knows that suffering can feel like failure, and he knows that endurance can feel fragile. So he shifts the argument: the believer’s perseverance is not grounded in personal strength but in God’s unwavering commitment to bring His children to glory. The very God who justifies is the God who sustains; the Christ who died is the Christ who intercedes; the Spirit who bears witness is the Spirit who helps in weakness. Paul’s point is that suffering is not a test you might fail but a context in which God refuses to let you be lost. Endurance is not a human achievement but a divine gift. That is why nothing—tribulation, distress, persecution, even the threat of death—can separate the believer from the love of God in Christ. The security of glorification rests in God’s hands, not ours.

 

[Roger316]

Paul does not seem to me to be saying “no created thing” in Rom 8:39. There seems no need to suppose that the form of "hE ktisis" in Rom. 8:39 means anything different from its forms used by Paul in Rom. 1:25; 8:19, 20, 21 and 22. The entire universe seems to fit in all of those texts.
In other words,
"Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
So Paul seems to be saying that God will love on us throughout the entire existence of this universe, and beyond this one’s dissolution in fervent heat into the next creation, and into all those creations that follow that one, ad infinitum.

Paul’s phrase “nor any other created thing” fits a pattern he has been building throughout the chapter: he lists pairs of realities that seem capable of undoing faith—life and death, present and future, angels and rulers, height and depth—and then caps the list with a catch‑all term that sweeps in anything else that might threaten the believer. In context, *ktisis* (“creation”) is not a reference to future universes or successive cosmic orders but to anything within the created realm that might oppose, intimidate, or overwhelm. Paul’s argument is not cosmological speculation; it is pastoral assurance. He is saying that no created power—no force, no authority, no circumstance—can sever the bond God Himself has established in Christ. The contrast of paired opposites shows that Paul is exhausting categories of experience, not mapping out infinite future creations. His point is simple: nothing in the created order, whether above or below, present or future, can break the love that secures the believer’s endurance.

 

[PaulThomson]

SALVATION IS IMMEDIATE AND COMPLETE AT THE MOMENT OF FAITH
Immediate Salvation
Lexicons define SAVE as deliver, rescue, grant life - an act performed by God (BDAG & Louw‑Nida). Theological dictionaries describe salvation as God's decisive transfer from death to life, darkness to light, Adam to Christ (TDNT & NIDNTT). Grammars note salvation verbs in conversion contexts overwhelmingly appear in the aorist tense (Eph 2:5, 8, Titus 3:5), indicating a completed event. Bible dictionaries summarize salvation as the immediate result of believing the gospel (Jn 5:24, Acts 10:43, Rom 1:16), never probationary or dependent on future performance.

The aorist aspect does not intrinsically indicate a completed event. That is simply a false claim. It presents a snapshot of an action or state which might be happening in either the past, the present or the future, or in more than one of these. The action snapshotted may be one that is/was/will be momentary, progressive, permanent, or intermittently repeated at two or more different times. The use of the aorist does not determine which kind of action is/was/will be happening. Whatever the context allows the temporal setting and duration of the action or state to be, is a possible reading of the aorist in that context

For instance, the ruoer asking Jesus to heal his daughter uses the aorist when he tells Jesus, my daughter died/dies/will die.

Mat 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, andshe shall live.
9:18 Ταῦτα αὐτοῦ λαλοῦντος αὐτοῖς ἰδού, ἄρχων ἐλθὼν προσεκύνει αὐτῷ λέγων ὅτι Ἡ θυγάτηρ μου ἄρτι ἐτελεύτησεν· (aorist active indicative, come to an end) ἀλλὰἐλθὼν ἐπίθες τὴν χεῖρά σου ἐπ᾽ αὐτήν, καὶ ζήσεται

Speaking (As he was speaking) these things to them, behold, a certain ruler, having come/coming (aorist active participle) to him was worshipping (imperfect active indicative) him, saying (present active participle),
"My daughter now has/is/will have ended, but after/in coming (aorist active participle) lay (aorist active imperative) your hand upon her, and she shall live (future middle deponent).

Was the man snapshotting his seeing her “having ended" before he left to fetch Jesus (a completed action), because she had already died? Was he snapshotting her on her death bed dying? Or was he snapshotting her as he imagined her now dead permanently unless Jesus comes to bring her come back to life? The text does not settle those questions.

 

[PaulThomson]

Paul’s phrase “nor any other created thing” fits a pattern he has been building throughout the chapter: he lists pairs of realities that seem capable of undoing faith—life and death, present and future, angels and rulers, height and depth—and then caps the list with a catch‑all term that sweeps in anything else that might threaten the believer. In context, *ktisis* (“creation”) is not a reference to future universes or successive cosmic orders but to anything within the created realm that might oppose, intimidate, or overwhelm. Paul’s argument is not cosmological speculation; it is pastoral assurance. He is saying that no created power—no force, no authority, no circumstance—can sever the bond God Himself has established in Christ. The contrast of paired opposites shows that Paul is exhausting categories of experience, not mapping out infinite future creations. His point is simple: nothing in the created order, whether above or below, present or future, can break the love that secures the believer’s endurance.

Or, Paul exhausts paired opposite categories that apply in this creation, and then is saying that the same assurance applies in any other of subsequent creations.

 

[Roger316]

Or, Paul exhausts paired opposite categories that apply in this creation, and then is saying that the same assurance applies in any other of subsequent creations.

The immediate concern of his readers is the creation in which they live.

 

[brightfame52]

John 10:15,27-30

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


30 I and my Father are one.

They whom Christ died for [His Sheep] they are secure and can never perish. This security mainly lies in the fact that Christ laid down His Life for them. No one Christ died for can ever perish. See Christ paid their sin debt to God's Law and Justice, so they must have Eternal life.

Now even though Christs Sheep will become believers in their lifetime, they are no less secure from perishing as unbelievers as they are when they become believers.

Yes even as unbelievers its not possible for them to perish, for they are preserved in Christ until they are called Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before being called by the preaching of the Gospel, they are preserved. The word téreó means:

I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

Their physical lives as sheep gone astray, enemies of God by nature, they are preserved unto their Gospel conversion unto Faith !

 

[brightfame52]

Many believe falsely that a true believer in Christ can finally be lost or can apostasize from the Faith. Im going to give a few scriptures that shows its false. Provision has been made that a true believer will not depart from God. Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

[Magenta]

In my ears, Paul's meaning is obvious, so I'm uncertain why you would question what I said.

He adheres to open theology which introduces a lot of error into his beliefs and thinking.

 

[PaulThomson]

In my ears, Paul's meaning is obvious, so I'm uncertain why you would question what I said. I'll give it a try, but since I don't know what your objection is, I might not address it.

In the immediate context, Paul says that Christians will suffer just as Christ did.

Correct. And his immediate question is not the same as yours 2000 years later, “How can I be sure that I will persevere under suffering and be saved?”
But his immediate concern, based on context, seems to be, “Is receiving the inheritance with Christ worth the suffering we must bear with Christ?

Rom 8:17
and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
Rom 8:18
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed to (eis) us.

Paul goes on to say that creation is groaning, the saints are groaning, and the Holy Spirit is groaning in earnest desire for the complete transformation of the Sons of God and the world’s restoration through our resurrection is Christlike glory. If creation, saints and God yern for something, it must be worthwhile.
Rom.8:17
and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Yes, the immediate preceding context does mention that we will not be glorified with Him unless we suffer with Him.

You say that the natural question the audience is asking is “Will I persevere under the strain of suffering? That is the question uppermost in your mind, but the question uppermost in Paul’s mibnd seems to be,
“But is all this suffering with Him worth the pain?" I suggest this because Paul’s next comment is,

8;18 "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed to (Gr. eis) us."

He then says that all creation is groaning, expectantly waiting for the inheritance we hope to receive'
8:19 "For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God… 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labours with birth pangs together until now."

He then says that we ourselves are groaning, expectantly hoping for the redemption of our physical bodies .
23. "Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."

And also the Spirit is groaning
26. "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

If creation is yearning for it, and we are yearning for it, and the Holy Spirit is yearning for it, it must surely be worth the struggle and the suffering.

And the Holy Spirit knows exactly what resources to pray for on our behalf, and what to pray for to open up for us the best and surest route to our inheritance with Christ. So, we will be furnished by God with whatever we need.
27 "Now He who searches the hearts (Christ) knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He (the Holy Spirit) makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

Then Paul summarises by saying that we know that all things in creation, ourselves and God are working together on behalf of those who are loving God. And those loving God are those who have been called according to His purpose.
28. "So (de), we know (oidamen) that (hoti) he is working together (sunergei) all things (panta) for (eis) good (agathon), to/for those (tois, dative pl. m) loving (agathosin, present participle dative pl. m.) God (ton theon); to/for those being (ousin, dative pl. m/n) called (klEtois, dative pl. m) according (kata) to His purpose (prothesin, acc. s. f.)."

Because whom (ous, acc. plural m. relative pronoun, its referent being "those who are loving God” , also a plural m. subject from v. 28) he foreknows/foreknew, he predestines/d to be conformed to the image of His Son. …
Paul does not use the substantive tous, those whom he foreknew, but the relative pronoun ous, whom he foreknew. ous requires a number- and gender-matching referent, whereas tous does not. "Those who are loving God” in v. 28 is the number and gender matching referent of "ous”..

So, Paul is not saying “all those whom God foreknows/foreknew from eternity past, or from their conception, he predestines/d…” but “ those who are now loving God, whom He knew before they were loving God, he predestines/d.” God foreknows everyone, but not everyone is loving God now. Paul is applying his "golden chain" here only to those who are loving God. This does not mean that the golden chain only applies to those loving God. The "golden chain" applied to "those loving God" even before they began loving God. And it applies to everyone, even when we are not loving God. But it is only "those who are loving God" who are receiving all things that are Christ’s as they embrace Christ. Those who are not loving God are actually also known, predestined, called, justified by Jesus' death and declared of great value (glorified) by God through the gospel, but they do not receive all thing that are Christ’s until they receive Him.

 

[Roger316]

He adheres to open theology which introduces a lot of error into his beliefs and thinking.

I noticed that sometimes someone will disagree with me, but in their lengthy explanation it turns out they actually agree with me. It's as if they need to hear it in their own wording. Right?

Open theism is one of those fictional stories parents tell their children so they can sleep at night. It isn't true, but I think it comforts people.

 

[Suze]

Get behind me Satan!

Hi Billy Bob , haven't read anything from u for a while , r u ok ?

 

[Vucesa]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Let that stand as it is. We need to interpret the warning passages in light of this truth. The sheep will never perish, that is a fact. If even one of Jesus' sheep perishes that verse would be a lie. Then how do we answer the many warnings in Scripture, how do we answer the apostasy all around us? Simple, Lord Jesus has already given us the answer in the parable of the sower.

Luke 8:11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

 

[Blade]

We live in a fallen world where Satan is god who.. is not stupid.. he got 1/3 of the angels to go with him.. so yeah we don't stand a chance.. we think we do. Salvation is a easy target. just show them the sin.. how they like it some times.. if you loved Jesus you would not sin. Tells them.. this is not easy.. did He not tell you about narrow and wide gate? So you really have to work at this or.. you will lose it! ..things like that. Yes a truth yet a lie.. we do have to keep working at this.. since the flesh has never been changed and loves to sin.. we put off the old man? Put on the new man?

We keep looking as if GOD only sees this moment as if .. since you came to Christ.. all that never matted.. what seems to matters is.. if you fall now.. goof up . live hits so hard.. something awful happens to you and.. you think.. (hmm where did that thought come from) God.. if He is so real.. why did He let that happen! So you give up.. you leave this mess. These Christians.. some are worse then then children. They go after each other as if they don't sin... as if God only "goes after" those true fake Christians.. you know.. the ones we call out we show the world and each other all their sin all the fake silly doctrines that.. yeah never touch salvation.. but were real Christians..

My salvation did not come from man.. and by His word... I don't answer to man. As BJ Thomas sang once.. if you see me fall missing it well "pray for me". Shows again.. we truly do not understand what the blood of the Lamb of God.. did for the world.. As of now.. 588 pages and nothing what so ever has changed.. what matters is John 3:16-17 Rom 10:9-10. Do you know Him today? Not past.. not future.. now?