Loss of salvation???
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oh how they say it must be biblical!
then we present scripture and they say it's not in the original manuscripts or he was using hyperbole!
cos scripture flat out opposes your five sola's or 16th century novelties!
is 1 cor 13:2 also hyperbole?
all faith without charity avails NOTHING!
faith alone by definition is alone! so it avails nothing!
thks
deut 6:5
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
The means of our salvation is according to the purpose of our creation!
To Know, Love, & serve God!
Col 1:9-12
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
thks
Well, now. Paul never said anything about some title as to right division, so it appears to me you and/or someone else made this up out of thin air.
Yes, under the Kingdom Gospel, which is not the gospel we are under today.
And yet Paul, who is the apostle to the body of Christ spanning all the way to modern times, he said nothing about any requirement for water baptism in relation to salvation.
You make a great historic Roman Catholic, or are you Eastern Orthodox? Pray tell.
The problem, however, is that the man-made religions of the RCC, Eastern Orthodox and so many others too numerous to name, they all disagree with one another on many points, which means they can't all be right, but they can certainly all be wrong.
That's why I'm a biblicist with a Th.D, and yet I still seek the Spirit of the Lord for all truth rather than from those steeped in man-made traditions and religions that bolster their own status among men, elevating themselves as allegedly superior when in fact they are inferior in so many ways.
MM
It appears that it is YOU who doesn't understand what the Kingdom of Heaven is. As a highly educated Israeli, I have a great deal of understanding as to what Jesus was talking about on the basis of our idioms and the Greek from which your English translations were derived. You Westerners are so smug in your arm chair expertise rooted in little to no understanding as to what even your own English translations say in relation to the available copied manuscripts of the original autographs.
Well, there's not much charity in your words that ring of fleshly pride and indifference to the clear language of scripture.
Of course there have been, are and will be many who THINK they are saved, but have or will find out they had missed the mark. Nobody is saved on the basis of a works-based gospel. We today are saved ONLY by the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. You Gentiles with your pathetic bishops and prophets and modern apostles, you who have sold yourselves out to replacement theology, thinking that the twelve and even Christ was speaking to you directly, you people really need to get a grip on yourselves and read scripture for what it says.
You've made it quite clear that you're following other men rather than to exercise proper responsibility for what you believe by checking out everything those men and women over you who are teaching as authorities you personally have chosen to accept as such and who obviously are not authorities over anything honest and truthful.
I don't know if you are truly saved or not since that's between you and the Lord, but if you accept any other gospel than that preached by Paul, which was given to him by no man, as he had clearly stated, and that obviously differed from that preached by Christ and the twelve to Israel and Israel ALONE by which Paul had learned from men and by which he persecuted believing Jews, your understanding is below the most basic levels of Bible 101.
If you'd like to study all this more deeply, then we can do that, but I suspect you may have sold yourself out to others who know far less than you realize.
MM
Heb 12:4 works?
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Again, Paul is using hyperbole to express the importance of love and is not suggesting that there are Christians who have faith that can move mountains but totally fail at hope and love and won't be saved. If we have faith, then it would be impossible to not have hope. Hebrews 11:6 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If we totally fail at love, then that would demonstrate that we have not been born of God. (1 John 4:7-8)
You seem to be making this out to be much more complicated than it really is because you promote salvation by works. Now saved by faith alone does not mean that we have faith but no hope and no love. Saved by faith alone means that we are saved by trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
Paul wrote this to the Corinthians, with a focus on spiritual gifts, to remind them that love is the essential, everlasting motivation behind all Christan actions. Faith will become sight in heaven and hope will be realized. Love is the very nature of God which makes it the most important virtue. Without love, spiritual gifts and acts of service are meaningless.
You seem to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive" passages of scripture, what is typical with folks who teach salvation by works.
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
But we are not saved by keeping the law. Paul makes that abundantly clear to the Ephesian Christians:
NKJV (Eph 2:1) And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
(Eph 2:2) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
(Eph 2:3) among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
(Eph 2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
(Eph 2:5) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
(Eph 2:6) and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
(Eph 2:7) that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
(Eph 2:8) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
No idea there of the Ephesian Christians having been saved because of their obedience. It was when they were dead in trespasses that God gave them new life and saved them.
The saved, even b4 they are called in time and while they are sinning enemies, they are preserved in Jesus Christ and Loved and Sanctified by the Father Jude 1:1-2
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
Note, the uncalled of the elect are still objects of Gods Mercy and Grace !
Now the word preserved is the greek word tēreō:
to attend to carefully, take care of
Also its a perfect passive participle so they are once and for all preserved and that forever. David wrote Ps 37:28
For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
Folks everyone Christ died for whether or not they have believed or not, are saints/sanctified by His Death which makes them from the Divine perspective saints Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
So to lose one salvation is virtually impossible, for the believer was eternally secure and preserved when they were rebellious sinners and ungodly.
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
Note, the uncalled of the elect are still objects of Gods Mercy and Grace !
Now the word preserved is the greek word tēreō:
to attend to carefully, take care of
- to guard
- metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is
Also its a perfect passive participle so they are once and for all preserved and that forever. David wrote Ps 37:28
For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
Folks everyone Christ died for whether or not they have believed or not, are saints/sanctified by His Death which makes them from the Divine perspective saints Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
So to lose one salvation is virtually impossible, for the believer was eternally secure and preserved when they were rebellious sinners and ungodly.
What did Peter say to his readers? How does one check to see if they are an actual believer or not?
I think Ephesians 2:10 gives us a hint when it says that saved people, people with the new life, are saved for good works. Jesus said:
(Joh 13:35 NKJV) By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
That love is shown in the good we do to one another. Of course, we shall not do so perfectly, but I would say that a Christian's life should be characterised by love and good works.
I mentioned Peter so that you might go and see it for yourself.
If we consider the anatomy of sainthood, we see that the Saint is a person with many attributes, including the belief that Jesus Christ is both Lord and Savior. Other attributes include honesty, courage, integrity, faithfulness, humility, love of God, love of brother, love of neighbor, and many others.
Salvation is not transactional as you suppose; Salvation is relational. Salvation is not a transaction where God exchanges forgiveness for some human payment like faith, effort, or moral performance; salvation is a relationship in which the living Christ draws a person into fellowship with Himself. A transaction is impersonal—you give something, you get something, and the parties remain essentially unchanged. But salvation is personal and existential: it is the risen Jesus knowing you, calling you, forgiving you, and binding you to Himself in love. This is why the New Testament speaks of salvation in relational terms—knowing Christ, abiding in Him, being united with Him, being adopted by the Father, receiving the Spirit of sonship. The point is not that Jesus saves “people in general,” but that He saves persons—He saves those whom He knows, calls, and embraces. Salvation is not a contract to be executed; it is communion with the Savior who gives Himself to you and draws you into His life.
That post doesn't address our objection to your point of view.
Many people collapse the entire doctrine of salvation into a false dilemma: either salvation has no conditions at all, or else it becomes works‑based. But this is an oversimplification that ignores the relational nature of the gospel. A work is something performed to earn or merit a result; a condition is simply the posture in which a person receives what God freely gives. Faith, repentance, calling on Christ, abiding in Him—these are not payments but relational responses to a living Savior. Scripture consistently presents salvation as a relationship initiated by God and entered by persons, not as a mechanical transaction. To say that salvation has conditions is not to say that humans contribute merit; it is to say that God saves real people in real relationships, not abstractions. Reducing salvation to “no conditions or else works” flattens the richness of the biblical witness and misunderstands the difference between receiving grace and earning it.
Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.