Calvinism is Gospel !

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Where can I read more about this please? I am interested as I am a son of these barbarians
Here's something I found funny - The Romans use to wear kilts or whatever you call them and it was problem for them fighting in cold regions so they eventually adopted the trousers the barbarians wore. Definitely not how the tribes are portrayed in the movies :)

Not sure about what books to recommend of the top of my head - but there is a set of videos that cover the Biblical references and also a short documentary here:

 
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Which age is that?

As I stated it the "ainios" carries the deeper meaning of quality, richness and depth of life which is a present reality as well.
Aionion life is the intimate experience of knowing God's love in the here and now.
I'm surprised to hear that. I have never read a passage where Aionion life is life in the here and now.
 
I understand why we might consider that we have Eternal Life to a lesser degree now, but I wonder if that is really Biblical. Jesus talks about giving us abundant life now and I can see how that might be experienced in degrees, but I think we underestimate the kind of life that we will experience in the next age. It would be a worthy study to review all the places where Jesus compares this age with the coming age to see the differences. If Jesus teaches that we experience eternal life in degrees, I am okay with that. I believe whatever Jesus says. But sometimes we settle when we shouldn't.
No I don't underestimate anything. Jesus clearly told us what eternal life consists in. The extent of it doesn't alter the reality of it.
 
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It is a present possession for believers.

In the gospel of John (10:28), Jesus says, “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.” This verse also doesn’t imply an afterlife location. The aionion life is speaking of a life with abundance or greatness as Jesus says in this previous verse, “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly” (10:10).
It seems to me that Jesus's statement in John 10:29 can easily be understood as a promise of a future time. In fact, he says they will never perish, which logically implies they don't have it yet, since they all have perished. But they "have" it in the sense that it is their inheritance.

Think about it this way, we know that Eternal life is more -- much more-- than days without end. I mean, who would want to live forever if every day was just like today? In the coming age there will be no more sorrow, no more crying, no more tears, no more disappointments, no more pain, no more divorce, no more broken friendships, no more enemies.
 
As usual you reject clear scripture
And yet I take the time to explain things clearly. All you can do is say, "I am right and you are wrong because you disagree with me." Don't you get bored with that? How is that working out for ya'?
 
No I don't underestimate anything. Jesus clearly told us what eternal life consists in. The extent of it doesn't alter the reality of it.
Good. Maybe we can talk about that. What did Jesus say Eternal life consists in? I am willing to be taught.
 
I hear and understand your critique and normally I would agree with you, but my statements about how the passage reads is not the same thing as saying how it feels. These are not the same thing. The way a passage "reads" takes into account grammar, but also immediate and larger context.

Look at it this way. Suppose the passage under review is like a river and you are standing on a bridge. From your perspective, you can see the river flow under the bridge and out the other side. Studying a passage of scripture is like that. When you stand on the bridge, you see the water coming from somewhere and going somewhere; it has continuity, direction, and movement. Sound interpretation should read the same. If my reading of a verse doesn’t flow naturally from what came before it or doesn’t lead coherently into what follows, then I’m not tracing the river—I’m forcing it to jump banks. A non‑sequitur interpretation is a warning sign that I’ve imposed something on the text rather than letting the author’s argument carry me downstream. Good exegesis respects the movement of the passage, the logic of the paragraph, and the direction of the book’s argument.

Paul says unbelievers “walked” according to the course of this world and “followed” the prince of the power of the air. Those verbs matter. They are verbs of active participation, not coercion. Nothing in the passage suggests they lacked the capacity to seek God; rather, they were morally and spiritually inclined toward the deceiver because his fog suited their desires. They were not dragged; they were drawn. They were not chained; they were comfortable in the haze that hid the destructive nature of their path. Paul’s point is that their condition was hopeless without God’s intervention, not that they were metaphysically unable to respond. The deceiver leads by obscuring truth, flattering desires, and shaping a world‑system that feels natural to the sinner. In other words, they followed him because his lies aligned with what they wanted—not because they lacked the ability to choose differently.


I don't need to show an idea from the text that he and his readers shared. Everyone knows that they have free will. Paul wouldn't need to say so if everyone already agreed on that. I understand your critique about using wording that Paul didn't use, but surely you realize that when someone explains a passage, they don't simply repeat the passage verbatim. I am forced to use different wording. The power of a passage isn't in the wording per se; it's in the ideas they convey. So if the words I chose didn't convey Paul's meaning then I stand corrected. And you shouldn't believe me. But if my wording conveys Paul's meaning then you should listen to what I say.

Well, that's my point exactly. In my view, the passage is not talking about a carcass. Apparently you disagree. This is why I turned our attention to what Paul says about life and living, which seems to stand as a comparison with his point about being dead in Christ. Being dead in sins seems to be the opposite of being alive in Christ. What is the main idea that ties them together?

Yes, I am claiming that sinners are misled and walking in a haze, but if you recall, I also said that they walked according to the course of this world because the deceiver appealed to their desires. They wanted to be misled as crazy as that may seem. These are not people who were unable to believe; they are people who prefer not to believe. There is a difference.

Again, we contrast and compare what Paul said about being dead with what he said about being alive, because it appears that Paul wants his readers to understand that framework.

First, you just made an incredible admission. You wrote: "I don't need to show an idea from the text... Everyone knows that they have free will. Paul wouldn't need to say so."
With all due respect, that is the exact definition of eisegesis—reading your own outside philosophical assumptions into the text because you assume "everyone knows it." If your doctrine of free will is actually in Ephesians 2, you shouldn't have to bypass the text and claim it's just an unwritten assumption. You are literally admitting that the words on the page do not say what you want them to say, so you have to invent an unwritten agreement between Paul and the readers of Scripture to base it on and bail out your argument. Your conclusions need to be anchored by the actual text, not by what your assumptions lead you to, or you run the risk of subtly changing the meaning of the text to fit your assumptions rather than the reverse - that your conclusions should be formed by the words of the text.

Second, let's talk about your river metaphor. You claim you are just following the natural flow and continuity of the passage. But the actual river of Ephesians 2 flows directly from a death to a resurrection.
Look at the text:
Verse 1: We were dead in sin.
Verse 5: We were dead in sin. God quickened us -resurrected us / made us alive together with Christ.

That is the flow of the river. You don't have to make a bird alive that has a stubborn will. Someone walking in a comfortable haze doesn't need to be made alive. That is only done to the dead. By trying to change "dead" into "unwilling," you are the one forcing the river to jump its banks. You are changing Paul's entire legal and spiritual framework from a supernatural resurrection into a self-help class where a misled bird can just be instructed to clear its eyes and fly. Salvation is not a step-by-step process – it is binary: either dead or alive – from one directly and instantaneously to the other with nothing intervening between the two except for God's choice and His direct intervention.

Third, you ask what the main idea is that ties "dead in sins" and "alive in Christ" together. The answer is the ultimate and sole guardrail of the entire Bible: Jesus Christ as Savior.
A Savior doesn't just show up to wave away a fog or give a healthy bird advice because it's being stubborn. A Savior steps into a graveyard and gives life to the dead. Lazarus did not use his "free will" to walk out of the tomb; he was completely dead until the voice of the Savior gave him life. The link between death and life in Ephesians 2 is strictly the sovereign grace of Christ, not the cooperating will of the dead. Verse 5 explicitly says, "by grace ye are saved." It does not say "by grace and your willingness to step out of death."

Lastly, you still didn't answer for your massive contradiction from your previous post. You previously said that prior to rebirth a person "simply could not perceive" spiritual reality and that there was "only spiritual deadness." Now you are claiming they are just healthy birds who "prefer not to believe." If there is "only deadness," there is no bird that is alive who can execute a preference. You are changing your definitions piece by piece to avoid the plain, explicit words God chose to communicate through Paul
 
And yet I take the time to explain things clearly. All you can do is say, "I am right and you are wrong because you disagree with me." Don't you get bored with that? How is that working out for ya'?
You not the only one who explains things. Nevertheless, things can even be said explicitly to you from scripture, and you flat out deny it. Just like the saved presently have eternal life in possession and you deny it. Here is another plain text you will deny 1 Jn 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Again the word have echo is a present tense active indicative

Here is the precise grammatical and theological breakdown of how this verse proves present possession.

1. The Grammatical Argument (The Present Tense)

In the original Greek text, the word translated as "have" is echete (ἔχητε), which is the present tense form of the verb echō (to have, hold, or possess). [1]
  • Current Ownership: John does not say "that ye may know that ye shall have eternal life" (future tense). He uses the present tense to declare that eternal life is a current piece of spiritual property already resting in the believer’s hands. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • Active Possession: The moment a person is regenerated and believes, the clock of eternal life does not start ticking at their physical death; it has already begun. [1, 2]

2. The Link to Knowledge: "That Ye May Know"

John uses the Greek word eidēte (εἴδητε) for "know." [1]
  • Absolute Certainty: This specific word means to know with settled, intuitive, and absolute certainty. It is not a hope, a wish, or a guess. [1, 2]
  • The Logical Impossibility of Free-Will Conditionalism: If eternal life were conditional upon man’s continuous free-will performance or future law-keeping, it would be a flat-out lie for John to say you can know you possess it right now. You could only "hope" you don't mess up tomorrow. The fact that you can know you have it right now proves that the gift is already yours permanently. [1]
 
I'm surprised to hear that. I have never read a passage where Aionion life is life in the here and now.
A. Eternal life, is often perceived as a promise for the future , a gift to be received after physical death. However, the New Testament presents eternal life as a present reality for believers, Jesus emphasized the immediacy of eternal life saying:
"Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed [past tense] over from death to life." The use of the present tense "has eternal life" indicates that this is a current possession for the believer, not merely a future hope.

B. Jesus explained that eternal life is more than unending existence (since, after all, even damned souls will have that). Eternal Life is qualitatively different being very life of God which cannot be possessed or enjoyed independently from God Himself. This is why Jesus called Himself the Vine which is the sole source of life for all the branches.

C. However, we can enjoy God life only as if we continue abiding in Him
2 For You granted Him (the Son) authority over all people, so that He may give ETERNAL LIFE to all those You have given Him.
3 Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE that they may know
You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
(John 17:2-3)

D. The word KNOW that is used here is ginosko which means to know through personal experience (first-hand acquaintance).
Thayer adds: to become acquainted with, to know, employed in the N. T. of the knowledge of God and Christ, and of the things relating to them or proceeding from them. The word suggests intimacy as it does in Lk 1:34, where it is written"
And Mary [a virgin] said to the angel, 'How will this be since I do not know (1097 /ginṓskō = sexual intimacy) a man?'"


E. John also describes eternal life as CONTINUING ON in the Father and the Son:
24 As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.…
(1 John 2:24-25)
The fact that he mentions what we have heard is an allusion to our having heard and believed the saving gospel so one condition to having eternal life is continuing to believe what we heard. It is not enough to have heard believed once upon a time.
 
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I hear and understand your critique and normally I would agree with you, but my statements about how the passage reads is not the same thing as saying how it feels. These are not the same thing. The way a passage "reads" takes into account grammar, but also immediate and larger context.

Look at it this way. Suppose the passage under review is like a river and you are standing on a bridge. From your perspective, you can see the river flow under the bridge and out the other side. Studying a passage of scripture is like that. When you stand on the bridge, you see the water coming from somewhere and going somewhere; it has continuity, direction, and movement. Sound interpretation should read the same. If my reading of a verse doesn’t flow naturally from what came before it or doesn’t lead coherently into what follows, then I’m not tracing the river—I’m forcing it to jump banks. A non‑sequitur interpretation is a warning sign that I’ve imposed something on the text rather than letting the author’s argument carry me downstream. Good exegesis respects the movement of the passage, the logic of the paragraph, and the direction of the book’s argument.

Paul says unbelievers “walked” according to the course of this world and “followed” the prince of the power of the air. Those verbs matter. They are verbs of active participation, not coercion. Nothing in the passage suggests they lacked the capacity to seek God; rather, they were morally and spiritually inclined toward the deceiver because his fog suited their desires. They were not dragged; they were drawn. They were not chained; they were comfortable in the haze that hid the destructive nature of their path. Paul’s point is that their condition was hopeless without God’s intervention, not that they were metaphysically unable to respond. The deceiver leads by obscuring truth, flattering desires, and shaping a world‑system that feels natural to the sinner. In other words, they followed him because his lies aligned with what they wanted—not because they lacked the ability to choose differently.


I don't need to show an idea from the text that he and his readers shared. Everyone knows that they have free will. Paul wouldn't need to say so if everyone already agreed on that. I understand your critique about using wording that Paul didn't use, but surely you realize that when someone explains a passage, they don't simply repeat the passage verbatim. I am forced to use different wording. The power of a passage isn't in the wording per se; it's in the ideas they convey. So if the words I chose didn't convey Paul's meaning then I stand corrected. And you shouldn't believe me. But if my wording conveys Paul's meaning then you should listen to what I say.

Well, that's my point exactly. In my view, the passage is not talking about a carcass. Apparently you disagree. This is why I turned our attention to what Paul says about life and living, which seems to stand as a comparison with his point about being dead in Christ. Being dead in sins seems to be the opposite of being alive in Christ. What is the main idea that ties them together?

Yes, I am claiming that sinners are misled and walking in a haze, but if you recall, I also said that they walked according to the course of this world because the deceiver appealed to their desires. They wanted to be misled as crazy as that may seem. These are not people who were unable to believe; they are people who prefer not to believe. There is a difference.

Again, we contrast and compare what Paul said about being dead with what he said about being alive, because it appears that Paul wants his readers to understand that framework.

Re: "Everyone knows that they have free will.":

Well, tulipists deny that anyone has MFW, but I feel free.
 
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I'm surprised to hear that. I have never read a passage where Aionion life is life in the here and now.
Seeing Eternal Life as explain in the Scripture, by using a Word Study out of God’s word.

“…who will not get back very much more in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:30, NRSV) *eternal life here is in the future

“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.” (John 3:36, NRSV) *Whoever is believing in the Son has eternal life so it is clear that in some respect a believer already possesses or has eternal life

“Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24, NRSV)
*One who is a believer not only HAS eternal life, but HAS PASSED from death to life in the past

“Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life.” (John 6:47, NRSV)

“Fight the good fight of the faith; take hold of the eternal life, to which you were called and for which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.” (1Tim 6:12, NRSV) *There is ‘the eternal life’ that we are to take hold of, in context seems the fullness of life lived in Christ in obedience to the gospel.

“We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Any one who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1John 3:14-15, RSV) *Those who love the brethren have the evidence that they have passed into life, in the past; but no murder has eternal life abiding in him.
[The BDAG on “abiding” here – “The possession is shown to be permanent by the expr. ἔχειν τι μένον ἐν ἑαυτῷ have someth. continually, permanently 1J 3:15

“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” (John 10:10, NRSV)

The Arminian Methodist Joseph Benson has an excellent comment on this verse
“And that they might have it more abundantly — A life more abundant than that which was lost and forfeited by sin; more abundant than that which was promised by the law of Moses; more abundant than could have been reasonably expected, or than we are able to ask or think; that whatever measure of spiritual life in union with God, through Christ, of conformity to his image, or participation of his nature, we may have received, we may still desire and expect larger measures thereof; or to whatever degrees of holiness and usefulness we may have attained and manifested, we may still proceed to higher degrees, preparing and qualifying us for still higher degrees of future glory.” [I'm a strict Calvinist, but I do gain knowledge and helps from some Methodist men of God out of the past.]
 
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No, your ideology continually ignores John 3:16, which is addressed to all sinners.
Context. You are ignoring contextual harmony that must exist in this discussion.

Any time any people are referenced for Salvation,they are only those whom God has predestined for his call.
(No one can come to me unless the father calls the.) The only way they need the call is if Holy Spirit has entered and is open g their consciousness to heed the call. Because otherwise the natural mind of man cannot heed the call. They cannot understand the things,that call,of God. (1Corinthians 2)
1Cor. was addressed to those who had converted per John 3:16.
In 1Cor. 2 Paul urges Christians to cooperate with the HS rather than revert to the natural mind,
which is what you apparently are prone to do.
 
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False accusation
I think if you read their remark again you'll see it is self contradictory.

They appear so focused on trolling that they're throwing out anything they think will afford an insult toward others.

The schoolyard taunt,Calvie, tells me they're not yet adults.
We might consider that as well.
 
Context. You are ignoring contextual harmony that must exist in this discussion.

Any time any people are referenced for Salvation,they are only those whom God has predestined for his call.
(No one can come to me unless the father calls the.) The only way they need the call is if Holy Spirit has entered and is open g their consciousness to heed the call. Because otherwise the natural mind of man cannot heed the call. They cannot understand the things,that call,of God. (1Corinthians 2)

Re "You are ignoring contextual harmony that must exist in this discussion. Any time any people are referenced for Salvation,
they are only those whom God has predestined for his call.": That is circular reasoning.

Re "(No one can come to me unless the father calls them.)": And when I am lifted up, I will call everyone.

Re "The only way they heed the call is if Holy Spirit has entered and is opening their consciousness to heed the call. Because otherwise the natural mind of man cannot heed the call.": God loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved, so He enables everyone to heed His call to repent, seek and find how to be saved.

Re "They cannot understand the things, that call,of God. (1Corinthians 2)": The they in that passage refers to Christians,
who can choose either to cooperate with the mind of Christ they received at SB or revert to thinking like natural/unsaved folks.
 
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Re "You are ignoring contextual harmony that must exist in this discussion. Any time any people are referenced for Salvation,
they are only those whom God has predestined for his call.": That is circular reasoning.

Re "(No one can come to me unless the father calls them.)": And when I am lifted up, I will call everyone.

Re "The only way they heed the call is if Holy Spirit has entered and is opening their consciousness to heed the call. Because otherwise the natural mind of man cannot heed the call.": God loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved, so He enables everyone to heed His call to repent, seek and find how to be saved.

Re "They cannot understand the things, that call,of God. (1Corinthians 2)": The they in that passage refers to Christians,
who can choose either to cooperate with the mind of Christ they received at SB or revert to thinking like natural/unsaved folks.
That is not what the 1Cotinthians 2 chapter says.
 
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