Calvinism is Gospel !

[maximc]

Belief isn't a decision. You either believe or you don't.

Faith itself comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Many here believe that verse says faith comes by hearing the word of God. But that isn't what the scripture says. It says faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Note:

Doesn't say: hearing the word of God produces faith.

Does say: the word of produces hearing. Hearing produces faith.

This is the power of the gospel that Paul was not ashamed of.

Rom. 10:13-15 shows how a person is saved in reverse order. Verse 15 says that the preacher is sent to bring glad tidings which is the Word of God. Verse 14 says that when people hear this gospel, they believe. Once they believe, they call on the name of the Lord. Verse 13 says that when they call on the name of the Lord, they will be saved.

 

[GWH]

So, according to Calvinism, the gospel does not save anyone?

Something else saves you, then you can believe the gospel?

Thus, preaching the gospel is not necessary?

People get saved by some other thing?

But this verse says you trusted after, and not before, you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Per tulipism's U faith in Christ is not God's condition for salvation, because no cooperation is required.
IOW, humans are no different from robots or animals.

 

[WayneNSO]

The Bible teaches that the believer is predestined to three things:
1. Inheritance - Ephesians 1:11
2. Adoption - Redemption of the body - Ephesians 1:5; Romans 8:23
3. Conformed to Jesus' Image - Romans 8:29

It doesn't teach that God had a master list of the saved before creation

 

[Cameron143]

Rom. 10:13-15 shows how a person is saved in reverse order. Verse 15 says that the preacher is sent to bring glad tidings which is the Word of God. Verse 14 says that when people hear this gospel, they believe. Once they believe, they call on the name of the Lord. Verse 13 says that when they call on the name of the Lord, they will be saved.

No argument. God sends a preacher because it is His intention to save. The word is preached and belief is the result. Nothing about a decision or choice. Simply the grace of God bringing about an intended result.

 

[GWH]

Calvinism is heresy because of the following reasons. According to Calvinism,
1, Man does not have a free will.
2. Our salvation is pre-determined.
3. Man has no say in his or her salvation.
4. God has determined to send certain people to hell for no fault of theirs.

Yes, which makes God unloving and unjust, which corrupts the Gospel/is heretical!

 

[GWH]

Just out of curiosity: does it bother you that you had no say in your natural birth?

Here we have an example of tulip logic.

 

[Bible_Locket]

Rom. 10:13-15 shows how a person is saved in reverse order. Verse 15 says that the preacher is sent to bring glad tidings which is the Word of God. Verse 14 says that when people hear this gospel, they believe. Once they believe, they call on the name of the Lord. Verse 13 says that when they call on the name of the Lord, they will be saved.

Here's what Jesus says.

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."


John 6:65: "He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.'"

 

[GWH]

No.Accorfing to the Gospel. Which predates Calvinism.

Denying the Gospel tenets is the heresy.

Both Old and New Testaments affirm that.

Just as Jesus taught. And as Revelation reminds us of,when referring to the Lambs Book of Life written before the foundation of the world.

Man is unaware of any such thing in their natural minded state. Which is how we are born.

Who in their rightmi f would prefer damnation once God opened their consciousness to grace?

Everyone is born separated froGod and dead in their Sins unless they are redeemed.

Re the OT affirmation of no MFW: Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15.

 

[WayneNSO]

Yes, which makes God unloving and unjust, which corrupts the Gospel/is heretical!

I've noticed a lot of atheist when attacking the Bible and Christians only seem to know the Calvinists view. They think we all believe we have no free will, and God has determined many to damnation before they are born. So there argument is God is unjust, and they'd be right if that was truly the God of the Bible.

 

[maximc]

No argument. God sends a preacher because it is His intention to save. The word is preached and belief is the result. Nothing about a decision or choice. Simply the grace of God bringing about an intended result.

If you read John 1:11-12, not everyone believes. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God". If God had already saved certain people, why did Jesus have to come and die for mankind and they should believe in him? What does that accomplish?

 

[GWH]

Jesus speaks to the necessity of being born again. I see no option being given.

And that doesn't answer the question: are you upset that you had no say in your natural birth?

Here we have an example of tulip-induced blindness.

 

[GWH]

I've noticed a lot of atheist when attacking the Bible and Christians only seem to know the Calvinists view. They think we all believe we have no free will, and God has determined many to damnation before they are born. So there argument is God is unjust, and they'd be right if that was truly the God of the Bible.

Yes, tulipism does indeed witness against an omniloving and just God.
And bad first impressions are difficult to overcome with the truth.

 

[maximc]

Here's what Jesus says.

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."


John 6:65: "He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.'"

According to 2 Pet. 3:9 and 1 Tim. 2:4, God wants everyone to be saved which implies that God is willing to draw everyone towards him, but why aren't everyone getting saved? Because of "Unbelief".

 

[GWH]

If you read John 1:11-12, not everyone believes. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God". If God had already saved certain people, why did Jesus have to come and die for mankind and they should believe in him? What does that accomplish?

Indeed! Per tulip there is no reason for GW/salvation history.
God could simply save everyone from A&E and have heaven on earth from the get-go, avoiding millennia of suffering.

 

[GWH]

Please don't compare natural birth to spiritual birth. John 3:16 very clearly says, "For God so loved the world.......whosoever believes in him should not perish". Here, the phrase "whosoever believes in him" is a choice given to a person.
The context of Rom. 1:20 is about believing in the existence of God. It does not apply to our current subject.

Yes, apples and oranges.

 

[GWH]

You just made that up, nothing about giving anyone a choice there.

Here we have an example of tulip semantics.

 

[GWH]

John 3:16 is made up ? :O

Yep, along with most of the Bible per the tulip proof-texting hermeneutic.

 

[GWH]

Here's what Jesus says.

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."


John 6:65: "He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.'"

Here we have an example of tulip proof-texting.

 

[HeIsHere]

Your view completely reverses the explicit grammar and order of Scripture. Let's let the text speak:

• 1. God chooses people, not just a plan: In Ephesians 1:4, Paul writes that God “hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” The direct object of God's choice is us (specific individuals), not an empty category or a corporate structure. He didn't choose a concept; He chose His people.
• 2. Scripture explicitly says election happens before birth: You claim Scripture doesn't support God ordaining people before they are born apart from their choices. But Romans 9:11-13 says exactly that regarding Jacob and Esau: “the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.” Paul completely rules out human responses or choices as the basis for election.
• 3. Faith is the result of election, not the cause: You claim faith is the condition to become elect. But Acts 13:48 states the exact opposite order: “and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” People do not believe to become ordained; they believe because they were already ordained by God's sovereign choice.

Your system makes man’s faith the ultimate cause of salvation, but Scripture makes God’s sovereign choice the root cause that produces faith in time.

Until you can break it down into the grammatical /linguistical /contextual interpretation, my interpretation is as good as yours....... if not

better since it does not contradict any other verses.

 

[brightfame52]

Here we have an example of tulip semantics.

You wanna write your own bible now