Calvinism is Gospel !

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brightfame52 said:
Your claim that the Bible does not distinguish between a general call and an effectual call completely ignores the explicit vocabulary of the New Testament. No one disputes that the outward preaching of the gospel goes out generally to everyone who hears it. But the Apostle Paul explicitly outlines a specific, sovereign call that is distinct from the mere sound of a preacher's voice.

In Romans 8:30, Paul outlines the unbreakable golden chain of salvation writing that whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Look at the absolute mathematical certainty of the text. 100 percent of the people who receive this specific call end up justified and glorified. If this call simply meant the outward preaching of the gospel, then everyone who has ever heard a sermon would be justified and go to heaven. Since we know that is not true, the Bible explicitly teaches an internal, effectual call of the Holy Spirit that successfully secures the salvation of the elect.

Furthermore, your idea that Adam's spirit died but his soul remained untouched and fully functional is a completely fabricated invention. The Bible never teaches that human beings are divided into separate compartments where the spirit can be dead while the soul remains morally pure and spiritually healthy.

In Romans 3:10-11, Paul quotes the Old Testament to define the total, absolute corruption of the entire unregenerate human being stating that there is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

If the human soul was still spiritually alive, alert, and healthy enough to seek after God on its own, Paul would be wrong. But the text says there is none that understandeth and none that seeketh. The corruption of the fall affected the entire man—his mind is darkened as per Ephesians 4:18, his heart is deceitful and desperately wicked as per Jeremiah 17:9, and his will is in absolute bondage to sin as per John 8:34.

When you hear a sermon, your physical ears can process the sound and your natural mind can understand the words. But a dead, unregenerate heart is fundamentally incapable of loving the truth or submitting to it. As Romans 8:7 explicitly states, the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

An enemy with a hostile carnal mind cannot choose to obey the gospel until God performs the exact heart surgery promised in Ezekiel 36:26, removing the stony heart and giving a heart of flesh. You do not respond to the call to get made alive; the sovereign voice of Christ effectively makes you alive through the new birth, causing you to willingly, joyfully respond. The text has spoken, and salvation belongs entirely to the Lord from start to finish.
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Rom. 10:13-15 clearly explains how salvation takes place. When the preacher preaches the gospel, faith is built up within a person and he believes. Once he believes, he calls upon the name of the Lord, and this is how the person is saved. So, where is the effectual call you are talking about? The preaching of the gospel is the call through which people believe, call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. The reason why some would not believe even if after they hear the gospel is because they have a free will which they exercise to reject Christ.

The predestination you are referring to, in Rom. 8:30 has a context that begins from Rom 8:26 which says that when we try to reach out to God in prayer, the Holy Spirit assists us to pray the perfect prayer and this is how God leads us from calling to justification to glorification. So, the predestination is only to those who are trying to reach out to God and not for others. In other words, predestination is to the obedient ones only. God does not predetermine who should be saved and who should be damned. That would be egregious to conceive about God.

You said, "your idea that Adam's spirit died but his soul remained untouched and fully functional is a completely fabricated". This is not fabrication. Didn't God tell Adam that he would die if he ate the forbidden fruit? So, if Adam died as per God's command, then how come he still survived for 930 years as per Gen. 5:5. How did he survive? In his "SOUL". Having a person's soul alive does not mean he can find God, because 2 Cor. 4:4 says that Satan has blinded the minds of those who do not believe. This is the reason why preaching of the gospel is required for anyone to be saved.

Rom. 8:7 which you quoted is not written to those who are lost. It is written to the born again believers. Rom. 8 tells of two options a born again believer can walk in. Either he walks in the spirit or he walks in the flesh. People who walk in the flesh cannot discern the things of God and they cannot obey God. therefore, every born again believer must walk in the spirit which means we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit to walk in the ways of God.

Ezk. 36:26 is the result of a person responding to the call of God. Following that, the person needs to walk in the spirit. In other words, he must cooperate with the Holy Spirit for God to keep the person saved from start to finish.
 
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WayneNSO said:
You mix up the house of Judah and the house of Israel. Joseph, the house of Israel had the birth right, The house of Judah was to bring about the Messiah. The house of Israel had long ago been divorced and became nations under different names, but God had not forsaken them, they were predestined to received the promises of Abraham. This is something the majority of the church is blind to in the scriptures, and so more than two thirds of the whole bible is closed to them understanding wise.
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There is nothing in the Bible to support the idea that any ethnic group would receive the promises of Abraham. When the Bible mentions the descendants of Abraham, it's not referring to blood relatives, instead it's referring to believers from every tribe, tongue and nationality from around the globe. In other words it's referring to the Church.

Abraham is my brother, because we have the same Father. He is a Born Again Christian, because he placed his faith in the Lord Jesus, just as David, Moses, Isaac and every other one of Gods elect did. There are no Jews or Gentiles in Christ, we are all One Body.
 
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Roger316 said:
All true, but remember, Israel will be grafted back onto her own tree.
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Yes all Israel will be added to the "Tree" or "Temple" or "Body of Christ" or "Church". These are all one and the same, the Israel of God is every single one of His elect. You know, those who's names He wrote in His Book Of Life, before time began.
He knows every one of us by name, and no extra names can be added to His book and no names can be removed. It was a done deal before the world was made, and so it shall be forever. God never changes His mind about anything.
 
HeIsHere said:
These have been dealt with so many times on CC.

Do Calvinists every realize how they only rely on proof texts, does that ever make you think hmm.. "why do we pull out the same verses over and over again."

This is what you read....

And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were unconditionally appointed by God before the foundation of the world ,to eternal life believed.

But if you actually read in context you will note... They were told that they were appointed to eternal life a week after they believed.

Acts 13, you must follow the sequence of events and quit the cut and paste out-of-context theology of Calvinism. So here we go using the correct historical time order which then makes clear the meaning of Acts 13:48
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Do you Arminians ever realize that you can't reject what God has said and make up your own version of the gospel, to suit yourself. I quoted you verses of scripture which confirm that believers were appointed by God.

You claim some scripture exists, which supposedly says "They were told that they were appointed to eternal life a week after they believed".

Please enlighten us with this elusive scripture.
 
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Genez said:
Those ones had been drawn by God and were ready to be saved!

Once a person has been successfully been drawn to over the finished line, then the Father hands him over to Christ.

Each one that God has completed in drawing, is then appointed to be given to Christ!
​
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, ​
and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

If man's volition were not involved?
The Father would not bother to even draw him.
The Father would simply zap him into being saved!

And?

There are those whom God attempted to draw and had to reject them because they refused to be drawn to completion!

Please read carefully the following...

There ones resisted the drawing of God!
​
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness ​
of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God ​
is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s ​
invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood​
from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.​
​
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their ​
thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:18-21​

See that?

It is not as simple as when some were first told.
There is more to learn!
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I can't agree with any of that, as it contradicts everything God's Word reveals about salvation. You're suggesting that God fails to acheive what He sets out to do, so your view of God is unbiblical.
The God of the Bible cannot fail to acomplish anything because He is Almighty "see that"??

You reckon God tried to get some over the line, but they overpowered Him and caused Him to fail. That is not the God of the Bible.
 
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maximc said:
Rom. 10:13-15 clearly explains how salvation takes place. When the preacher preaches the gospel, faith is built up within a person and he believes. Once he believes, he calls upon the name of the Lord, and this is how the person is saved. So, where is the effectual call you are talking about? The preaching of the gospel is the call through which people believe, call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. The reason why some would not believe even if after they hear the gospel is because they have a free will which they exercise to reject Christ.

The predestination you are referring to, in Rom. 8:30 has a context that begins from Rom 8:26 which says that when we try to reach out to God in prayer, the Holy Spirit assists us to pray the perfect prayer and this is how God leads us from calling to justification to glorification. So, the predestination is only to those who are trying to reach out to God and not for others. In other words, predestination is to the obedient ones only. God does not predetermine who should be saved and who should be damned. That would be egregious to conceive about God.

You said, "your idea that Adam's spirit died but his soul remained untouched and fully functional is a completely fabricated". This is not fabrication. Didn't God tell Adam that he would die if he ate the forbidden fruit? So, if Adam died as per God's command, then how come he still survived for 930 years as per Gen. 5:5. How did he survive? In his "SOUL". Having a person's soul alive does not mean he can find God, because 2 Cor. 4:4 says that Satan has blinded the minds of those who do not believe. This is the reason why preaching of the gospel is required for anyone to be saved.

Rom. 8:7 which you quoted is not written to those who are lost. It is written to the born again believers. Rom. 8 tells of two options a born again believer can walk in. Either he walks in the spirit or he walks in the flesh. People who walk in the flesh cannot discern the things of God and they cannot obey God. therefore, every born again believer must walk in the spirit which means we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit to walk in the ways of God.

Ezk. 36:26 is the result of a person responding to the call of God. Following that, the person needs to walk in the spirit. In other words, he must cooperate with the Holy Spirit for God to keep the person saved from start to finish.
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1. The Effectual Call vs. The External Call (Rom. 10:13-15)

The argument that the external preaching of the gospel is the only call confuses the outward invitation with the inward work of the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes between the external call (the preacher’s voice) and the internal, effectual call of the Spirit.

Romans 10:17 states that faith comes by hearing the word of God, but this requires spiritual ears that only God can grant. If the external preaching alone were enough to produce faith, everyone who heard it would believe. The reason some believe and others do not is not due to human free will, but because the Holy Spirit sovereignly and effectually works in the hearts of the elect, giving them the faith required to call upon the name of the Lord. The external call is a dead letter without the internal power of the Spirit.

2. Predestination and Intercession (Rom. 8:26-30)

Claiming that predestination is a reaction to human prayer flips the biblical order upside down. Romans 8:29-30 outlines an unbreakable "Golden Chain" of salvation that begins in eternity past (foreknew, predestinated), manifests in time (called, justified), and concludes in eternity future (glorified).

The context of Romans 8:26 shows that the Holy Spirit helps our infirmities precisely because we do not know what to pray for. We are not "reaching out to God" by our own power to earn predestination; rather, the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the sovereign will of God. Predestination precedes calling and prayer. God does not predestinate people because they are obedient; rather, people become obedient because they were predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son.

3. Total Depravity and Adam’s Death (Gen. 5:5, 2 Cor. 4:4)

Attempting to isolate the human "soul" as fully functional and untouched by spiritual death is a flawed division of human nature. When Adam fell, he died a spiritual death immediately. This death corrupted the entire man—soul, mind, affections, and will.
While Adam lived physically for 930 years, his soul was spiritually dead, not merely "blinded" from the outside by Satan. Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4) precisely because their dead, carnal minds are completely susceptible to his darkness. If the soul were untouched and fully functional toward God, it would not need a "new heart" (Ezek. 36:26)—it would only need new information. Spiritual death means total inability to choose God.

4. The Carnal Mind (Rom. 8:7)

The claim that Romans 8:7 applies to born-again believers walking in the flesh is a severe misinterpretation of the text. The "carnal mind" is enmity against God, is not subject to the law of God, and cannot be.

A born-again believer, even when stumbling into sin, possesses a renewed mind and the indwelling Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 immediately clarifies Paul's definition of who is in the flesh: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Therefore, those who are "in the flesh" and cannot please God (Rom. 8:8) are the unregenerate lost. This proves that natural man has no free will to please God or choose Christ.

5. Sovereignty in Regeneration (Ezk. 36:26)

Salvation is a purely monergistic act—meaning God acts alone to regenerate a dead heart—rather than a cooperative effort where God responds to human choice. In Ezekiel 36:26, God explicitly says, "I will take away the stony heart... and I will give you an heart of flesh."

A stony heart cannot cooperate or respond to a call to change itself. The removal of the stony heart must happen before any godly response or faith can occur. Furthermore, Ezekiel 36:27 states, "I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes." God does not leave preservation up to human cooperation or free will; He sovereignly causes His people to persevere from start to finish.

 
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brightfame52 said:
1. The Effectual Call vs. The External Call (Rom. 10:13-15)

The argument that the external preaching of the gospel is the only call confuses the outward invitation with the inward work of the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes between the external call (the preacher’s voice) and the internal, effectual call of the Spirit.

Romans 10:17 states that faith comes by hearing the word of God, but this requires spiritual ears that only God can grant. If the external preaching alone were enough to produce faith, everyone who heard it would believe. The reason some believe and others do not is not due to human free will, but because the Holy Spirit sovereignly and effectually works in the hearts of the elect, giving them the faith required to call upon the name of the Lord. The external call is a dead letter without the internal power of the Spirit.

2. Predestination and Intercession (Rom. 8:26-30)

Claiming that predestination is a reaction to human prayer flips the biblical order upside down. Romans 8:29-30 outlines an unbreakable "Golden Chain" of salvation that begins in eternity past (foreknew, predestinated), manifests in time (called, justified), and concludes in eternity future (glorified).

The context of Romans 8:26 shows that the Holy Spirit helps our infirmities precisely because we do not know what to pray for. We are not "reaching out to God" by our own power to earn predestination; rather, the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the sovereign will of God. Predestination precedes calling and prayer. God does not predestinate people because they are obedient; rather, people become obedient because they were predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son.

3. Total Depravity and Adam’s Death (Gen. 5:5, 2 Cor. 4:4)

Attempting to isolate the human "soul" as fully functional and untouched by spiritual death is a flawed division of human nature. When Adam fell, he died a spiritual death immediately. This death corrupted the entire man—soul, mind, affections, and will.
While Adam lived physically for 930 years, his soul was spiritually dead, not merely "blinded" from the outside by Satan. Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4) precisely because their dead, carnal minds are completely susceptible to his darkness. If the soul were untouched and fully functional toward God, it would not need a "new heart" (Ezek. 36:26)—it would only need new information. Spiritual death means total inability to choose God.

4. The Carnal Mind (Rom. 8:7)

The claim that Romans 8:7 applies to born-again believers walking in the flesh is a severe misinterpretation of the text. The "carnal mind" is enmity against God, is not subject to the law of God, and cannot be.

A born-again believer, even when stumbling into sin, possesses a renewed mind and the indwelling Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 immediately clarifies Paul's definition of who is in the flesh: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Therefore, those who are "in the flesh" and cannot please God (Rom. 8:8) are the unregenerate lost. This proves that natural man has no free will to please God or choose Christ.

5. Sovereignty in Regeneration (Ezk. 36:26)

Salvation is a purely monergistic act—meaning God acts alone to regenerate a dead heart—rather than a cooperative effort where God responds to human choice. In Ezekiel 36:26, God explicitly says, "I will take away the stony heart... and I will give you an heart of flesh."

A stony heart cannot cooperate or respond to a call to change itself. The removal of the stony heart must happen before any godly response or faith can occur. Furthermore, Ezekiel 36:27 states, "I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes." God does not leave preservation up to human cooperation or free will; He sovereignly causes His people to persevere from start to finish.

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This is cyclical argument which I have already answered in my previous posts. You are either neglecting what I write, or you are obstinate. One of the two.
 
Journey_man said:
1 Corinthians 2:14 is self explanatory, "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I'm sure you know what "natural man", means in the New Testament. It obviously means a man who is unconverted, unbeliever, unregenerate, not born again etc. As such, the Bible declares him to be incapable, unable, unwilling, to receive the things of the Spirit of God, such as the Gospel.

The Gospel is foolishness to him, nor can he know it (meaning impossible for him to know). Because a carnal, natural man cannot "Believe IN/Trust IN the good faith offer of Christ Jesus for Salvation. You will not find a single verse in the Bible to support your view.
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I would say there is no verse in the scripture is self explanatory, not even close.

And no that is not the meaning of that verse, Paul is obviously putting explaining something more involved to the people in Corinth and developing his argument.

But this type of cherry picking works well for when scripture verses are required to prop up an already devised system.

Scripture no where affirms this false tenet that God created mankind's fallen nature after the fall such that mankind could not respond positively to the HIS Good News .. in this way He would pick and choose only some for His Kingdom.

Jesus Himself affirms over and over again that people have retained the moral ability to respond to Him and His work either positively or negatively.
 
Journey_man said:
You're suggesting that God fails to acheive what He sets out to do, so your view of God is unbiblical.
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Why are you looking at the issue as pass or fail? Did God fail in created all things good in the beginning? And yet, God repented that he had made man on the earth. Did God fail?
 
Journey_man said:
It's a simple case of God choosing whosoever He wills to save, and you don't get to have a say in it. Can you accept that as the truth of the matter, or will you continue to wrestle with it.
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Only those indoctrinated with Reformed/TULIP believe this...... if one goes back 75 years one would find that most Baptists were NOT Calvinists, but rather followed the Standard Confession of 1660.
neither did they adhere to Arminianism.


IV. That God is not willing that any should Perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Pet.
3. 9. and the knowledge of the truth, that they might be saved, 1 Tim. 2. 4. For which end Christ
hath commanded, that the Gospel (to wit, the glad tydings of remission of sins) should be
preached to every creature, Mark 16. 15. So that no man shall eternally suffer in Hell (that is, the
second death) for want of a Christ that dyed for them, but as the Scripture saith, for denying the
Lord that bought them, 2 Pet. 2. 1. or because they believe not in the name of the only begotten
Son of God, John 3. 18. Unbelief therefore being the cause why the just and righteous God, will
condemn the children of men; it follows against all contradiction, that all men at one time or
other, are put into such a capacity, as that (through the grace of God) they may be eternally
saved, John 1. 7. Acts 17. 30. Mark 6. 6. Heb. 3. 10, 18, 19. 1 John 5. 10. John 3. 17.
 
brightfame52 said:
1. The Effectual Call vs. The External Call (Rom. 10:13-15)

The argument that the external preaching of the gospel is the only call confuses the outward invitation with the inward work of the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes between the external call (the preacher’s voice) and the internal, effectual call of the Spirit.

Romans 10:17 states that faith comes by hearing the word of God, but this requires spiritual ears that only God can grant. If the external preaching alone were enough to produce faith, everyone who heard it would believe. The reason some believe and others do not is not due to human free will, but because the Holy Spirit sovereignly and effectually works in the hearts of the elect, giving them the faith required to call upon the name of the Lord. The external call is a dead letter without the internal power of the Spirit.

2. Predestination and Intercession (Rom. 8:26-30)

Claiming that predestination is a reaction to human prayer flips the biblical order upside down. Romans 8:29-30 outlines an unbreakable "Golden Chain" of salvation that begins in eternity past (foreknew, predestinated), manifests in time (called, justified), and concludes in eternity future (glorified).

The context of Romans 8:26 shows that the Holy Spirit helps our infirmities precisely because we do not know what to pray for. We are not "reaching out to God" by our own power to earn predestination; rather, the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the sovereign will of God. Predestination precedes calling and prayer. God does not predestinate people because they are obedient; rather, people become obedient because they were predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son.

3. Total Depravity and Adam’s Death (Gen. 5:5, 2 Cor. 4:4)

Attempting to isolate the human "soul" as fully functional and untouched by spiritual death is a flawed division of human nature. When Adam fell, he died a spiritual death immediately. This death corrupted the entire man—soul, mind, affections, and will.
While Adam lived physically for 930 years, his soul was spiritually dead, not merely "blinded" from the outside by Satan. Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4) precisely because their dead, carnal minds are completely susceptible to his darkness. If the soul were untouched and fully functional toward God, it would not need a "new heart" (Ezek. 36:26)—it would only need new information. Spiritual death means total inability to choose God.

4. The Carnal Mind (Rom. 8:7)

The claim that Romans 8:7 applies to born-again believers walking in the flesh is a severe misinterpretation of the text. The "carnal mind" is enmity against God, is not subject to the law of God, and cannot be.

A born-again believer, even when stumbling into sin, possesses a renewed mind and the indwelling Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 immediately clarifies Paul's definition of who is in the flesh: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Therefore, those who are "in the flesh" and cannot please God (Rom. 8:8) are the unregenerate lost. This proves that natural man has no free will to please God or choose Christ.

5. Sovereignty in Regeneration (Ezk. 36:26)

Salvation is a purely monergistic act—meaning God acts alone to regenerate a dead heart—rather than a cooperative effort where God responds to human choice. In Ezekiel 36:26, God explicitly says, "I will take away the stony heart... and I will give you an heart of flesh."

A stony heart cannot cooperate or respond to a call to change itself. The removal of the stony heart must happen before any godly response or faith can occur. Furthermore, Ezekiel 36:27 states, "I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes." God does not leave preservation up to human cooperation or free will; He sovereignly causes His people to persevere from start to finish.

Click to expand...
Okay. First of all, I want to apologize because you did answer my post. It was just an overlook. Here below are my responses:

1. Effectual Call Vs. External Call
You said, "The argument that the external preaching of the gospel is the only call confuses the outward invitation with the inward work of the Holy Spirit. Scripture distinguishes between the external call (the preacher’s voice) and the internal, effectual call of the Spirit."
A: The external call is the preaching of the gospel. The internal effectual call is the faith, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit given to the hearer (Rom. 10:17) using which he receives Christ. Your argument is based on the false premise of "Total Depravity".

2. Predestination and Intercession
Regarding predestination in Rom. 8:30, your argument is based on God predetermining everyone's destiny. God has not predetermined anyone's destiny. He has fore-ordained the destiny of those who would believe in him. The calling happens when the gospel is preached, the justification happens when the person decides to receive Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior. The glorification happens as the saint continuously seeks God by means of prayer as mentioned in Rom. 8:26

3. Total Depravity and Adam's death
When Adam died in his spirit, he continued to live in his soul. Even though Adam's soul was corrupted by sin, that does not mean that he cannot think or reason or make decisions. He definitely can. It's just that someone has to preach the gospel to him without which he is unaware of the truth. This tells us that man was not totally depraved.

4. The Carnal Mind
When you quote Rom. 8:9, you should understand that Paul is stating that the person is in the spirit. That does not mean that the person is walking in the spirit. There is a difference between us being in the spirit and walking in the spirit. Every born again believer is in the spirit, but not everyone is walking in the spirit. What should a person do to walk in the spirit. The person should spend time in the presence of God by means of praise, worship, meditating on the Word of God, prayer, fasting etc. This is how a person can walk in the spirit. If the person is not spending time in the presence of the Lord, then such a person is walking in the flesh. It is that person who cannot understand the things of God and cannot obey God.

5. Sovereignty in Regneration
You are saying that salvation is a monergistic act. When you read Rom. 10:13, does it sound like monergistic or synergistic?
 
Can we Preach Christ without preaching Election ?

When Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:3 that "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures," we have to ask: which scriptures? He is pointing directly to Old Testament prophecies like Isaiah 53—the same scripture Philip used to preach Christ to the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:32-35).

If we look at what Isaiah 53 actually says "according to the scriptures," it is impossible to separate the preaching of Christ from the preaching of election and particular redemption:
  • Isaiah 53:8: "...for the transgression of my people was he stricken."
  • Isaiah 53:11: "...by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities."
  • Isaiah 53:12: "...and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."
Notice the precise language of the scriptures Paul is referencing. Christ was not stricken for a vague, universal population; He was stricken specifically for "my people"—God's covenant, elect people. He did not bear the iniquities of every single individual in human history; He bore the sins of "many" and successfully justified them.

Therefore, any expansion on the gospel "according to the scriptures" inevitably requires preaching election. To preach the Christ of Isaiah 53 is to preach a Savior who was stricken for a specific people, bore the sins of a specific many, and guaranteed their justification. You cannot truly preach the cross according to the scriptures without preaching the absolute sovereignty of God in saving His elect.

 
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maximc said:
4. The Carnal Mind
When you quote Rom. 8:9, you should understand that Paul is stating that the person is in the spirit. That does not mean that the person is walking in the spirit. There is a difference between us being in the spirit and walking in the spirit. Every born again believer is in the spirit, but not everyone is walking in the spirit. What should a person do to walk in the spirit. The person should spend time in the presence of God by means of praise, worship, meditating on the Word of God, prayer, fasting etc. This is how a person can walk in the spirit. If the person is not spending time in the presence of the Lord, then such a person is walking in the flesh. It is that person who cannot understand the things of God and cannot obey God.
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You are creating a distinction that Paul’s grammar in Romans 8 simply does not allow. You are confusing a believer’s daily struggle with sin (sanctification) with an unregenerate person’s fundamental state of being (regeneration).

Look carefully at the sharp contrast Paul sets up in Romans 8:5–9. He divides humanity into two—and only two—absolute categories based on their nature, not their spiritual habits:
  1. The Carnal Category: Those who are "after the flesh" have a "carnal mind" which is "enmity against God" and "is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (v. 5-7). Paul concludes this category in verse 8: "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
  2. The Spiritual Category: Paul immediately shifts to the believer in verse 9: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you."
Notice Paul’s absolute language. He does not say, "You are not in the flesh as long as you are fasting and praying today." He says you are not in the flesh "if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you." Indwelling is a permanent identity, not a fluctuating daily performance.

If your argument were true—that a believer who neglects prayer or fasting steps back into the "carnal mind" of verse 7—then that believer would instantly become "enmity against God" and "cannot please God" (v. 8). That would mean their salvation is lost the moment they have a dry spiritual season.

Furthermore, Paul explicitly seals who belongs in the fleshly category in the very next sentence: "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (v. 9).

The person who has a carnal mind that cannot obey God is the person who does not have the Spirit of Christ. The unregenerate man is permanently fixed in the flesh and cannot please God. Your comparison breaks down because a true believer, even when stumbling, possesses a renewed nature and the indwelling Spirit, making it impossible for them to ever return to the total, hostile spiritual death of the unregenerate.
 
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