Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
— Matthew 21:43 (KJV)
— Matthew 21:43 (KJV)
So are gays/lesbians nonelects? How do people become gays/lesbians?
- Thread starter HatedForNoReason
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Mega Canadian Church in Canada had a pastor who was affirming of Sodomites.
Here's an American Mega Church leader pastor Andy Stanley, son of Charles Stanley, who also affirmed his Sodomite friend.
Here's how he rationalized it to thousands without shame or bible.
If anyone has any questions, please see my previous recent posts. Johnny Nixon is a baptist minister who recommended homos to lead children's ministries. He wrote a book, Born That Way After All. I do NOT recommend it, just saying that that was the context of my post along with the video warning.
Here's an American Mega Church leader pastor Andy Stanley, son of Charles Stanley, who also affirmed his Sodomite friend.
Here's how he rationalized it to thousands without shame or bible.
If anyone has any questions, please see my previous recent posts. Johnny Nixon is a baptist minister who recommended homos to lead children's ministries. He wrote a book, Born That Way After All. I do NOT recommend it, just saying that that was the context of my post along with the video warning.
If I am reading text of the Bible I'm aware generally of the author of the context the time frame and usually several other notable events and things that happened in that same period of time or region
If I read something that appears to have gay overtones but doesn't outright support or say it then I would be the one reading that into the text
whatever the reason for the use of the word she which could be, as you say it is, or could be out of sarcasm on the author's part or maybe it was an accepted thing that they acted like a wife and husband and they were just poking at them.
The Holy Spirit didn't leave homosexual innuendos scattered a couple times in the text of the Bible therefore being a good scholar pasture and teacher you would know that this is simply a matter that creates division.
To the actual language level of the issue I'm sure you're aware that the septugint, did not always have an appropriate direct translation of a word there could have been more meanings than you provided for that word which could easily have no clear equal and they chose the word she. We don't know everything about ancient Hebrew and we are still learning about it
Charles Stanley endorces his son s preaching about accepting guys behavior?
If that's true, then Charles Stanley is in question, at least his current understanding of Bible is in question.
When you wrote “If I read something that appears to have gay overtones but doesn't outright support or say it then I would be the one reading that into the text” you go astray. I indicate what I refer to. There are no such words gay, homosexual or heterosexual, etc., in the Bible. You did not explain why the gender "she" was in those specific verses, while the gender "he/him", etc. is always used with males. You just suggested weak evasions of why it showed the gender so specifically but was not to be taken literally.
But to approach this in terms like “overtones”, does it describe or explain 2 Sam. 1:26?
“I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.” (2Sam 1:26, KJV)
But religious men, in their tradition, began adding a sentence to the Latin of the verse around 800 AD, and the Douay is the English translation of the Latin and it reads:
“I grieve for thee, my brother Jonathan: exceeding beautiful, and amiable to me above the love of women. As the mother loveth her only son, so did I love thee.” (2Sa 1:26 DRB)
The underlined is a totally false, spurious addition to the verse. The Roman Catholic Bibles dropped that false sentence in their modern translations.
David is heaping high praise upon Jonathan for his love in this lament. He uses the plural, “women”, not “a woman”, or “a wife”. His praise shows Jonathan’s love passes or surpasses the love of women. Most evangelicals and conservatives explain that as meaning a “wife”, apparently following the idea read into and added to the verse in the Latin. But why would plural “women” cause one to think in terms of sexual desire or relations? By the following it seems a normal understanding.
The first mention of the plural "women" in this sort of context:
"Now Eli was very old; and he heard all that his sons did unto all Israel, and how that they lay with the women that did service at the door of the tent of meeting." (1Sam 2:22 ASV)
David speaking, using the word "women":
"And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under my hand, but there is holy bread; if only the young men have kept themselves from women. And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days; when I came out, the vessels of the young men were holy, though it was but a common journey; how much more then to-day shall their vessels be holy?" (1Sam 21:4-5 ASV)
The current, scholarly English translation of the LXX is the New English Translation of the Septuagint (2009, minor corrections 2014), which reads:
“I grieve for you, my brother Jonathan; you were made very beautiful to me; your love to me was wonderful, beyond women’s love.”
It is true that the LXX did not always accurately translate the Hebrew, but it is the translation most quoted by Jesus and the Apostles. But an example of such error is, the LXX translates love by “agape” even in the rape of Tamar by Amnon, 2 Sam 13:15.
I try to avoid modern, misleading labels when studying the Bible. I did not say anything about his love being “gay”, or “homosexual”, but the love of Jonathan surely did contain sexual element to it, however you wish to describe it. Psychological research and studies show that the majority of men have had at least an occasion of sexual thought or desire for another man, but David is not referring to an “occasional thought or desire”.
When the copyists saw the meaning of the verse, it offended their religious sensibilities, their tradition, so they added a false sentence trying to blunt the clear meaning of the verse. The church itself made that tradition, and we know what Jesus said about men’s traditions.
As I understand, he supports his son, but not sure what he said concerning the specific teaching on the sodomites serving in ministries. I would need to hear his exact quote.
I'm more familiar with some other Baptists.
For instance Bob Gray Senior of Longview Texas promoted Johnny Nixon who started Born That Way ministries. This was such a shock because Gray was an influencer at one time. His son, Bob Gray Jr however was not on the same page as his dad.
I was led to Christ by an honorable Baptist who led a lot of children to the Lord. There's no way on earth those men who taught me would ever allow queer bait workers near their children or teens.
We could never imagine that there would be an issue like this in any Independent Baptist or Bible believing Evangelical churches.
What is reprehensible is that Nixon conflates Sodomites with Eunuchs. Then he doesn't want anyone to say they are straight because they might offend Sodomites, implying they are crooked. He promoted them as good children's workers too.
Fortunately, there were some Baptists preachers who warned their churches and took a stand against those who harm children.
Wow, I can't see Charles Stanley agreeing with that, but who knows now days.
I don't have time to go back through the whole thread. But you're not trying to say that David condoned homosexuality. And whether the word was specifically used it was well understood in meaning. God created man and woman for a reason. Anything other than a man and a woman united in marriage is a sin sexually. It's just that simple.
Just a quick check tells me he preached against homosexuality and stood firmly against it.
Charles continued to pastor after his divorce. I don't know if he's still preaching.
His son went independent evangelical non-denominational, now called Mega Church because of the size and worldly appeal.
Regardless 's, I do not recommend either of the Stanleys. Charles preached Christ as Savior, then he'd frequently twist his gospel message to include works of the unbeliever to be necessary for salvation at the end of his invitations.
His son must not have been listening to those sermons.
Yeah, agree, I looked up. Seems in the majority of c. Stanley teaching, he was saying gay stuff is sin.
What do you think a father in his position should do concerning his son who is rebellious against him and most importantly God?
He should only worship God, not his family members.
But I don't know the intimate detail of Charles Stanley and his son regarding this conversation, so I just leave it as I don't know.
If Charles Indeed support his son s stand on LGBT stuff, of course that means Charles caved in for earthly things.
Samuel s sons were not so good, but from the Bible, Samuel seems ok.
I've heard a handful of his sermons, he seemed to be fine in his preaching. I didn't know he divorced. Can you give me an example of what you mean? Works of the unbeliever ? He passed not long ago so he's in God's hands now.
I also heard many of his sermons, not bad, pretty good I would say.
Only today from here I found out he is divorced. Sorry to hear that.
Well - there is one place in the Bible where the word 'gay' is found; however, the meaning of the word in that context-and-era was totally different than the way the word is used today.
James 2:
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
So you have all of these big great words most of it seems pretty intelligent but what's the point the homosexual lifestyle is incongruent with the Christian lifestyle it's not only the sex it is the inappropriate attachment to things. The raising of the flesh above the spirit