Saved by faith alone?

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steve63 said:
If works are required before one can be saved, how could the the thief on the cross be saved? He embraced Jesus by faith and then died within a few hours, he had no chance to do any good works or to obey any command of God.
Click to expand...


We are not required to do works to be saved.
We are only to do good works after we are saved.
And, do them as God opens the way for them, as He planned for them to be done.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​
which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10​

Ephesians
 
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Inquisitor said:
1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

1 John 4:15
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

No one can be saved by confessing the Father or the Holy Spirit.

There was only one name that is confessed by us and that is the name of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

You don't understand the words of God.

Which is evident when you admit you don't believe they are of God.
You're actually,by your own words,incapable of discussing the Bible.

The inquisitors of history were the same. Their focus was on primacy of man. The institution of their employee.
They played God by deciding who would live or die based on the judgements the inquisitors afforded against innocent people.
 
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steve63 said:
If works are required before one can be saved, how could the the thief on the cross be saved? He embraced Jesus by faith and then died within a few hours, he had no chance to do any good works or to obey any command of God.
Click to expand...
The sins of the thief on the cross were forgiven the same way as it was forgiven in Luke 7:48.

The thief on the cross is not the promise for us or our children nor is it for all those far away.

That promise is clearly stated in Acts 2:38-39.
 
GWH said:
If the gospels completely agreed, there would be no need for four.

And if that were true, you would have less reason to think they were inspired rather than colluded/copied.
Click to expand...
We know that Luke copied from Mark's gospel and from other sources.

Luke tells you this in Luke's introduction.

Luke 1:3
It seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you
in consecutive order.

Luke is not writing about a revelation he received from Jesus.

Luke is merely investigating material he had access to and one of those sources was Mark's gospel.

Luke corrects the rough Greek in Mark's gospel and expands with information from other sources.

In places, the three so called 'synoptic gospels' are similar but not in other places.

Here is a problem for you to solve.

Matthew 28:18-19
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.

If that was what Jesus told the apostles then why do we have the following.

Acts 10:13-14.
A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything
unholy and unclean. Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.”

This is before Peter is called to visit the unclean, unholy, Gentile, Cornelius to which Peter replies.

Acts 10:28
And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner
or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean."

Surely Peter remembers what Jesus said "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" in Matthew's gospel.

Apparently not.
 
Inquisitor said:
We know that Luke copied from Mark's gospel and from other sources.

Luke tells you this in Luke's introduction.

Luke 1:3
It seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you
in consecutive order.

Luke is not writing about a revelation he received from Jesus.

Luke is merely investigating material he had access to and one of those sources was Mark's gospel.

Luke corrects the rough Greek in Mark's gospel and expands with information from other sources.

In places, the three so called 'synoptic gospels' are similar but not in other places.

Here is a problem for you to solve.

Matthew 28:18-19
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.

If that was what Jesus told the apostles then why do we have the following.

Acts 10:13-14.
A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything
unholy and unclean. Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.”

This is before Peter is called to visit the unclean, unholy, Gentile, Cornelius to which Peter replies.

Acts 10:28
And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner
or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean."

Surely Peter remembers what Jesus said "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" in Matthew's gospel.

Apparently not.
Click to expand...

Apparently Peter either did not remember or did not obey, but I have a bigger "problem" for you:
Mark and Luke were the assistants of Paul, who was inspired to reveal the fifth Gospel (Rom. 16:25-26, Eph. 3:2-11).
Thus, your implied task is to harmonize Paul's writings with the other four gospels. :cool:
 
Lamar said:
The sins of the thief on the cross were forgiven the same way as it was forgiven in Luke 7:48.

The thief on the cross is not the promise for us or our children nor is it for all those far away.

That promise is clearly stated in Acts 2:38-39.
Click to expand...
I never said the thief on the Cross was a "promise" to anyone. My point is that faith is all that is required for salvation. Yes, we are commanded to do many things including to repent and be baptized but those are acts that flow out from faith, they don't add to it to achieve salvation. If the thief on the Cross had somehow survived he would have repented and been baptized because genuine faith obeys. But he never had a chance to do those things and it didn't affect his salvation. Our obedience isn't the grounds for salvation, it's the effect of it. God has always saved the same way...there is no difference between what happened in Luke 7:48 and Acts 2:38.
 
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GWH said:
Apparently Peter either did not remember or did not obey, but I have a bigger "problem" for you:
Mark and Luke were the assistants of Paul, who was inspired to reveal the fifth Gospel (Rom. 16:25-26, Eph. 3:2-11).
Thus, your implied task is to harmonize Paul's writings with the other four gospels. :cool:
Click to expand...
So Mark was an assistant to Paul you say?

Acts 15:36-40
Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached
the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, but Paul
did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work.
They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, but Paul chose
Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord.

Wrong on that one.

Luke I think I remember was an assistant to Paul in Troas before travelling to Macedonia, on the secondary missionary
journey. Which gives us a powerful account of the apostle Paul during that journey. Luke's account from Acts 16 onwards
is detailed and accurate.

Paul did not write an account of the life of Jesus.

Paul gave us the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 though.
 
Ephesians 2:8, tells us that we have been saved by Grace.
Not by faith.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not ​
from yourselves, it is the gift of God. ​

Through faith?

Faith is our ID security card that God issues us to gain clearance for entering into God's throne room. Ephesians 3:12

In Christ by grace.....
 
.....Saved by faith....

What does it include or entail?

Some think it is just a faith in Jesus paying for our sins.

Saved from sin is more then just our past sins. It is more then just forgiveness.
It is being freed from the old life. It is being born again, renewing a right Spirit in us.

This is by faith and only possible by Jesus living in us.

Rom 7:22-25
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus is the answer....

Rom 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The battle is the battle for your heart.

Follow the Spirit or the flesh.
We know what this battle is like.

But by faith in Jesus alone we can overcome.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
 
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Ephesians 2:8, tells us that we have been saved by Grace.
Not by faith
Click to expand...

"And he said to the woman, 'Your faith has saved you; go in peace.'" (Luke 7:50)

Yes ultimately it's all by grace but that didn't stop Jesus from saying that faith saves people. Because even faith is a gift, it's all grace. But faith is still the vehicle God uses so it's still accurate to say that faith saves.
 
steve63 said:
"And he said to the woman, 'Your faith has saved you; go in peace.'" (Luke 7:50)

Yes ultimately it's all by grace but that didn't stop Jesus from saying that faith saves people. Because even faith is a gift, it's all grace. But faith is still the vehicle God uses so it's still accurate to say that faith saves.
Click to expand...
Faith saves in the sense it directs one to its object Christ who actually saved you
 
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steve63 said:
"And he said to the woman, 'Your faith has saved you; go in peace.'" (Luke 7:50)

Yes ultimately it's all by grace but that didn't stop Jesus from saying that faith saves people. Because even faith is a gift, it's all grace. But faith is still the vehicle God uses so it's still accurate to say that faith saves.
Click to expand...
By the grace of God who bestowed faith, we are Saved.

I leave worker bee's to their ideology. They can't be Saved unless they work for it.

If God has Saved them,they shall be so. If they are called to think to work for a reward and they are not God's chosen,the world and her people will be served by those labors.
 
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Inquisitor said:
The way I read and understand the scripture is purely from a subjective viewpoint.

Because the gospels disagree with each other in their resurrection accounts, I reject the idea that God wrote
the gospels.

When I read Luke's introduction to his letter to Theophilus below.

Luke 1:3
It seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for
you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus.

Luke's account was not directed to a church but to a person.

I do not accept that Luke was told what to write by the Lord or that the Lord, had guided what Luke wrote.

Does that mean that what Luke wrote was not important for everyone, of course not.

In the case of Paul it is plainly obvious that Paul was heavily guided by the Holy Spirit.

There is a marked difference in the weight of certain letters in the N.T and their impact on doctrine.

I never read 2 John or 3 John and I do not regard those two letters as scripture.
Click to expand...
But how do you make that judgment call? Why is Paul "obviously" heavily guided by the Spirit, more than John or Mark? I see this as a slippery slope and I don't think you will be in the faith in a decade if you continue on this path. I hope you return!
 
TMS said:
.....Saved by faith....

What does it include or entail?

Some think it is just a faith in Jesus paying for our sins.

Saved from sin is more then just our past sins. It is more then just forgiveness.
It is being freed from the old life. It is being born again, renewing a right Spirit in us.

This is by faith and only possible by Jesus living in us.

Rom 7:22-25
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus is the answer....

Rom 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The battle is the battle for your heart.

Follow the Spirit or the flesh.
We know what this battle is like.

But by faith in Jesus alone we can overcome.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Click to expand...
Faith informs us we have been saved.
 
Genez said:
Faith informs us we have been saved.
Click to expand...
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Does a saved person continue in sin? Does a saved person serve the flesh and evils lusts?
Faith results in change. True faith = a new heart.
 
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Inquisitor said:
We know that Luke copied from Mark's gospel and from other sources.

Luke tells you this in Luke's introduction.

Luke 1:3
It seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you
in consecutive order.

Luke is not writing about a revelation he received from Jesus.

Luke is merely investigating material he had access to and one of those sources was Mark's gospel.

Luke corrects the rough Greek in Mark's gospel and expands with information from other sources.

In places, the three so called 'synoptic gospels' are similar but not in other places.

Here is a problem for you to solve.

Matthew 28:18-19
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.

If that was what Jesus told the apostles then why do we have the following.

Acts 10:13-14.
A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything
unholy and unclean. Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.”

This is before Peter is called to visit the unclean, unholy, Gentile, Cornelius to which Peter replies.

Acts 10:28
And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner
or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean."

Surely Peter remembers what Jesus said "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" in Matthew's gospel.

Apparently not.
Click to expand...

Apparently Peter either did not remember or did not obey, but I have a bigger "problem" for you:
Mark and Luke were the assistants of Paul, who was inspired to reveal the fifth Gospel (Rom. 16:25-26, Eph. 3:2-11).
Thus, your implied task is to harmonize Paul's writings with the other four gospels. :cool:
 
TMS said:
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Does a saved person continue in sin? Does a saved person serve the flesh and evils lusts?
Faith results in change. True faith = a new heart.
Click to expand...

The faith that grace saved us through did not stop saving us from the Lake of Fire if we enter into walking as a carnal Christian.
Carnal Christians produce dead works.
But, they remain saved in regard to their eternal state.
 
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