This is a horrible introduction, my apologies, but this seems to be one of the few places to turn to with anonymity for guidance from fellow believers. I absolutely cannot discuss this with anyone I know except my husband and don’t trust “Christian counseling” businesses. He knows about this and can’t handle discussing it anymore. Not sure where to begin except I’m a wife and mother of three young adult children (1 daughter and 2 sons, youngest turns 18 early next year) and a fundamental Baptist. My husband and I raised our kids to trust Christ for salvation and live a loving, wholesome Christian life, or so we thought. Anyway, ever since last year my heart feels like it has been ripped out of my chest and the devil twists the knife in the wound every once in a while. The backstory: I made the mistake of giving our kids smart phones years ago without understanding of how parental controls work. It was difficult to figure out back then and now I regret ever giving in to it (won’t go into the reasons why as the phones were deemed necessary at the time). Without me knowing, the boys eventually ended up in the subreddit sodomite culture and listening to satanic bands like Slipknot. I also didn’t know they had developed suicidal ideation long before that with the elder son cutting all over his whole forearm, now scarred like he got into a fight with a bramble bush (doesn’t do it anymore). He came out as “bi" to me last year after a long fight with my husband and a week of silence. Our youngest son doesn’t know I found (because I can still check his email) a crossdressing picture of him taken in our bedroom posted in one of the subreddits, as well as his thread claiming to be a closeted “gay." Salt was poured into the wound even today when I found his makeup in one of his drawers. The worst part of all this is the elder says he doesn’t believe in God because of how we raised them. It’s clear to me now he never understood the true gospel despite having heard it and explained in detail many times over. Our youngest says he’s saved, but his actions indicate he may not really be. I know we’re not saved by our works, but would someone with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit really have the desire to commit unnatural sins that Romans 1 says are the desire of reprobates? I led both of them to the Lord when they were younger, so finding all this out made me question my own salvation since my fruit is rotten. While it’s fairly certain our daughter is saved (she was led to Christ by my husband), this truly is a fate worse than death. Additionally, my walk with Christ was crushed after finding out about our sons. I’m barely holding on by a thread trying hard not to throw it entirely away, but go to bed each night wanting to wake up in heaven the next morning. We both pray often for their salvation and hoping this is “just a phase” of rebellious sons, but they seem far beyond hope now. Thoughts, guidance, prayers, anything would be appreciated.
Warning: heavy, dark topic
- Thread starter Jael
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passion84god
Guest
Hi, Jael.
I am saddened by your story, but I appreciate and respect your honesty in telling it.
I am going to give you a piece of advice that probably won't be popular, but it is biblical. Regardless of how your sons fell into the sins you described, there really is only one way out of them, and it begins with the fear of the LORD. Here are just a couple of scriptures for you to consider:
I am saddened by your story, but I appreciate and respect your honesty in telling it.
I am going to give you a piece of advice that probably won't be popular, but it is biblical. Regardless of how your sons fell into the sins you described, there really is only one way out of them, and it begins with the fear of the LORD. Here are just a couple of scriptures for you to consider:
Proverbs 16:6
6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.
Psalm 55:19
19 God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.
If you sons are ever going to repent or depart from evil, then their repentance needs to be preceded by a genuine fear of God. You mentioned Romans chapter 1, and this is how it ends:
If you sons are ever going to repent or depart from evil, then their repentance needs to be preceded by a genuine fear of God. You mentioned Romans chapter 1, and this is how it ends:
Romans 1:32
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Physical death isn't the final judgment because it is appointed unto me once to die, but after this the judgment, Hebrews 9:27. or the time when Christ will finally and eternally judge both the living and the dead. Your sons desperately need an eternal perspective, and it needs to be one where people who are involved in the types of things they are involved in suffer the wrath of God for eternity. Of course, there is no guarantee that they will choose the fear of the Lord, Proverbs 1:29, but if they are ever going to genuinely repent, then that is where it must begin. Therefore, my advice to both you and your husband is to try to instill such a fear into them.
As far as feeling as if you somehow failed is concerned, do not fall into that trap. Your sons have their own free wills, and what they are presently involved in has everything to with them and their own free will choices and nothing to do with you somehow failing them.
I will be praying for all of you.
Physical death isn't the final judgment because it is appointed unto me once to die, but after this the judgment, Hebrews 9:27. or the time when Christ will finally and eternally judge both the living and the dead. Your sons desperately need an eternal perspective, and it needs to be one where people who are involved in the types of things they are involved in suffer the wrath of God for eternity. Of course, there is no guarantee that they will choose the fear of the Lord, Proverbs 1:29, but if they are ever going to genuinely repent, then that is where it must begin. Therefore, my advice to both you and your husband is to try to instill such a fear into them.
As far as feeling as if you somehow failed is concerned, do not fall into that trap. Your sons have their own free wills, and what they are presently involved in has everything to with them and their own free will choices and nothing to do with you somehow failing them.
I will be praying for all of you.
It's not your fault. Sounds like you need to hear that. And while some of it may be rebellion, alot of it may also be your sons being lost and confused without good role models. Keep loving them even when you don't like what they do and listen to the hard stuff, but ask them to be specific. It's easy to say church is bad, much more useful to articulate specific practices or teachings that are problematic. I'd also recommend reading some of philip yancey's writings as he's written about being a recovering fundamentalist and grace for those with alternative lifestyles etc.
'You can be assured, this scenario obviously is taking place in family circles, far and near.
I can only hope and pray, that somehow God intervenes. Scripture appears to always be the answer,
it is not the answer. Scripture surely intended for the instructions and lessons to be acted upon
and applied in our lives. That is exactly what we are all left with, and many choose their own alternative,
what ever that may be.
'I commend those that attempt to use scripture as the answer. Try instilling complex scripture into young children.
Young minds are seeing, hearing and living in today's real world. And with the internet availability, children
have found an escape that has altered their behavior in precarious ways. Technology has altered society,
collectively and as a whole. Families are subjected to this dilemma, a predicament where no single option
is entirely satisfactory.
'Again, I bring up the basic necessities necessary to hopefully help, in part, to play a role to counteract
this horrific family dilemma, that too many families are experiencing.
'A personal note my wife and I experienced years ago (now twenty years later)when we became legal guardians of our year old
grandson. What an ordeal, legally and emotionally. To make it short, love, patience and kindness were
instrumental in helping us all through the ordeal. Thank God! And thank God, Michael is doing fine. Praise God!
'Sadly, I firmly believe these attributes among the others, are not being sufficiently exercised in today's
restless world. I leave it there.
**The "fruits of the Spirit" are found in Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV):
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law".
Love encompasses a complex range of...
I can only hope and pray, that somehow God intervenes. Scripture appears to always be the answer,
it is not the answer. Scripture surely intended for the instructions and lessons to be acted upon
and applied in our lives. That is exactly what we are all left with, and many choose their own alternative,
what ever that may be.
'I commend those that attempt to use scripture as the answer. Try instilling complex scripture into young children.
Young minds are seeing, hearing and living in today's real world. And with the internet availability, children
have found an escape that has altered their behavior in precarious ways. Technology has altered society,
collectively and as a whole. Families are subjected to this dilemma, a predicament where no single option
is entirely satisfactory.
'Again, I bring up the basic necessities necessary to hopefully help, in part, to play a role to counteract
this horrific family dilemma, that too many families are experiencing.
'A personal note my wife and I experienced years ago (now twenty years later)when we became legal guardians of our year old
grandson. What an ordeal, legally and emotionally. To make it short, love, patience and kindness were
instrumental in helping us all through the ordeal. Thank God! And thank God, Michael is doing fine. Praise God!
'Sadly, I firmly believe these attributes among the others, are not being sufficiently exercised in today's
restless world. I leave it there.
**The "fruits of the Spirit" are found in Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV):
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law".
Love encompasses a complex range of...
Hi @Jael,
I am heartbroken by your story.
I'm also hesitant to say much, seeing as I don't have children and I can't imagine the challenges Christian parents are going through these days.
If I may say though, please don't blame yourself. I have married friends who are dealing with similar issues in their own families, even though they did their best to instill Christ-centered values.
And with social media being everywhere, even if you wouldn't have given your kids phones, I'm sure they would have been exposed to these things sooner or later.
I listen to a lot of social issue channels on YouTube, and one thing that caught my ear was that when I was growing up, the way kids rebelled or experimented then was often through tattoos, piercings, colored hair, etc. -- before it all became mainstream. Fast forward a decade or two, and many of these same people deeply regret doing these things.
The program host pointed out that instead of young people trying to "find themselves" by getting tattoos, they're now being told that the way to "find out who you are" is through crazy experiments with sexuality and gender.
As grown adults, we know it's all a lie, but unfortunately, young people don't know -- and many won't listen to warnings that an oven is hot until they've cooked in it a while themselves. Many of us wouldn't listen until we got burned as well.
I know this sounds like little comfort, but I do believe a lot of what this generation is going through will eventually be looked back on as a terrible phase, and filled with many regrets -- but that there is still hope of repentance, forgiveness, and choosing to go the right way.
I will pray for you and your family, and may God bless you and comfort you as you keep up the good fight of leading your children to the Lord.
Reddit is a terrible scourge of the internet.
I was curious and went on it, what a huge waste of time! I had to block it from my phone.
Parental controls...everyone needs to learn it. The instructions ought to come with the phone or they are going to be banned as they are in my country for under 16s, in schools and everywhere else.
However for many the horse has already bolted.
I just want to say don't feel bad, keep in the faith and be patient. Your children are blessed to have parents who care. Lord knows those who didn't (have parents who care) are in a far worse position.
I was curious and went on it, what a huge waste of time! I had to block it from my phone.
Parental controls...everyone needs to learn it. The instructions ought to come with the phone or they are going to be banned as they are in my country for under 16s, in schools and everywhere else.
However for many the horse has already bolted.
I just want to say don't feel bad, keep in the faith and be patient. Your children are blessed to have parents who care. Lord knows those who didn't (have parents who care) are in a far worse position.
Yes. Continue to pray. We can do so much, but I think only God can change the heart. So while you pray, you may think you are doing little, but you are actually doing the most, because you are leaving it in the hands of our Almighty God.
All of it? I go there from time to time to seek advice. Sure, there are plenty of crazies in some threads, but there are useful parts, too. Kinda like New Zealand...
It is just endless the 'advice' on it.
You want my opinion or a hundred different opinions?
You want my opinion or a hundred different opinions?
For the record I have never actually posted on reddit. Plus who are all those people anyway? Don't give too much credit to reddit. It just feeds the beast.
My two cents is simple based on my personal experience involving drugs and that kind of activity any of these sinful behaviors are currently in control of your children and until they personally make a decision to change it it will not change
Don't pay for or abett the issues. Pray for peace and understanding. Make solid boundaries in your house. No porn, no sexual activity... etc. If they are of age don't put a roof over thier heads. Love them don't enable them.
Show them love
i'm grateful for your prayers and insight. You're right, the fear of the Lord is a must. In the past we taught this concept and led by example. For instance, church is non negotiable and part of our reasonable service. We've taught through Biblical and real world examples that believers can come under God's judgment for disobedience while on earth, as well as the final judgment of those who reject salvation. The take-away, and what our elder son explained to me as a reason for not believing in God, is that he didn't want to believe in a God who makes you a slave. This circles back to him not understanding the gospel. So yes, fear of the Lord and the final judgment is necessary, which he doesn't believe is real. I understand this because I used to be agnostic, perhaps atheist, don't quite remember. For me, the break through was divine intervention, so that's what I'm praying for him. You're also right in that they do have free will. It's just very difficult getting past the fact we as parents are responsible for their well being as they grow up and then they choose opposite of what how we raised them. Thanks again for your response and prayers.
Just horrible. My deepest sympathies and prayers to you and your family.
You can't rewind the clock.
If you pay for the cellphone bills, you could cancel the service. Let your kids assume the cost.
But,be prepared for the blowback. A bit like junkies who are denied their fix.
You could have your adult age,18, child move out. Teaching them that bad decisions bear consequences.
God was with your family this whole time. It is His plan,not yours.
You can't rewind the clock.
If you pay for the cellphone bills, you could cancel the service. Let your kids assume the cost.
But,be prepared for the blowback. A bit like junkies who are denied their fix.
You could have your adult age,18, child move out. Teaching them that bad decisions bear consequences.
God was with your family this whole time. It is His plan,not yours.
P
passion84god
Guest
David was a man after God's own heart, and his son, Absalom, sought to kill him. Samuel was a prophet whose words never fell to the ground, and his sons were evil. There are plenty of biblical examples of godly parents whose children were not godly, so don't beat yourself up about that.
As far as not wanting to be a slave is concerned, right now, your sons are slaves to sin. You might want to try to get that point across to them with scripture.
At my end, I will be praying for the conviction of the Holy Spirit to come upon them and for their own consciences to accuse them in relation to the sins they are committing. The final chapter hasn't been written for your sons yet. Remember the prodigal son. He did eventually come to his senses, so there is hope.
As far as not wanting to be a slave is concerned, right now, your sons are slaves to sin. You might want to try to get that point across to them with scripture.
At my end, I will be praying for the conviction of the Holy Spirit to come upon them and for their own consciences to accuse them in relation to the sins they are committing. The final chapter hasn't been written for your sons yet. Remember the prodigal son. He did eventually come to his senses, so there is hope.
Thank you for your kind words. My past zealousness didn't translate correctly even though they heard it over and over again why the Christian life is important. The elder son translated it as you have to be God's slave to go to heaven. Even the church we used to go to muddied the gospel every once in a while and fed that idea. I didn't use these exact words, but had taught them many times it's better to die as a saved thief than to go to hell an unsaved pharisee. My youngest son stopped going to church but mostly because his sleep schedule is off from staying up too late. He's not against living a Christian life. We just don't require it anymore, he's old enough to take ownership of it if he's actually saved.
Thank you, we're giving them space to get on their feet. The older son is in trade school and planning to move out after he gets a job, which shouldn't be difficult in the industry he's training for. The younger has 3-4 years of college left. For the younger, yes, my plan is to cut the data if he doesn't fulfill certain obligations while living at home. All three of our kids must contribute in some way and so far the older two are doing well with that. The youngest is struggling but still pulling through when pushed to do it. He's not a bad kid if it weren't for what he's hiding. Despite having the typical teen struggles of laziness, he's very respectful of adults and others and wants good for society. I am grateful for that at least. Thanks again for your prayers.Just horrible. My deepest sympathies and prayers to you and your family.
You can't rewind the clock.
If you pay for the cellphone bills, you could cancel the service. Let your kids assume the cost.
But,be prepared for the blowback. A bit like junkies who are denied their fix.
You could have your adult age,18, child move out. Teaching them that bad decisions bear consequences.
God was with your family this whole time. It is His plan,not yours.
Yes, I've seen more than a few examples of this type of thing happening in other families, even Christian ones. The fact that both our sons are into that culture despite our efforts to teach what Scripture says about it leads me to believe it's endemic. It used to be very rare for even one child to turn out that way and now it seems prolific. The internet is a double edged sword, can be used for good and evil. Unfortunately it's all too easy for the devil to snatch the minds of children long before parents can protect them. Thank you for sharing and praise God your family is doing well!'You can be assured, this scenario obviously is taking place in family circles, far and near.
I can only hope and pray, that somehow God intervenes. Scripture appears to always be the answer,
it is not the answer. Scripture surely intended for the instructions and lessons to be acted upon
and applied in our lives. That is exactly what we are all left with, and many choose their own alternative,
what ever that may be.
'I commend those that attempt to use scripture as the answer. Try instilling complex scripture into young children.
Young minds are seeing, hearing and living in today's real world. And with the internet availability, children
have found an escape that has altered their behavior in precarious ways. Technology has altered society,
collectively and as a whole. Families are subjected to this dilemma, a predicament where no single option
is entirely satisfactory.
'Again, I bring up the basic necessities necessary to hopefully help, in part, to play a role to counteract
this horrific family dilemma, that too many families are experiencing.
'A personal note my wife and I experienced years ago (now twenty years later)when we became legal guardians of our year old
grandson. What an ordeal, legally and emotionally. To make it short, love, patience and kindness were
instrumental in helping us all through the ordeal. Thank God! And thank God, Michael is doing fine. Praise God!
'Sadly, I firmly believe these attributes among the others, are not being sufficiently exercised in today's
restless world. I leave it there.
**The "fruits of the Spirit" are found in Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV):
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law".
Love encompasses a complex range of...
Thank you so much for your kind, encouraging response. As you've probably guessed I hate reddit with a passion now. Before it was not even on my radar. Parental controls are much more refined and available now than they used to be. Back when I got their phones it was very confusing and you basically had to piecemeal it with different apps. I couldn't figure out how to block some things and not others, being able to sign in to specific accounts without jumping through hoops, etc. By the time you've protected one major area you're blocking websites you need them to have access to, and then the monthly fees all add up. So I just gave up and relied on what they learned from God's word and gave plenty of warnings of dangers. Sadly it wasn't enough. The saving of their souls is the most important thing to us over anything else that they could get in to now.
Thank you for that. The reminder helps. It's truly in God's hands