Three-fold Salvation

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maximc said:
When your soul magnifies the Lord, you are using your free-will to magnify the Lord. The result is the anointing. When the anointing comes upon you, your spirit will rejoice.
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The example I gave you is 'poetic parallelism'. It is where a statement is made and then repeated in a different way. Another example,' The Lord has made known is salvation and his righteousness has he openly shown'. He is saying the same thing is both cases but in a slightly different way. See this all the time in the Psalms.

Thus, Mary stated, 'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior'.

Magnifying the Lord with her soul is identical with rejoicing with her spirit. Spirit and soul are used interchangeably.
 
maximc said:
Eph. 2:8-9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.". God gives us the gift of faith. Using this faith, we believe the gospel, call upon the name of the Lord and will be saved. When it says, "not of yourselves", it means our salvation was not based on our merit but purely because of the grace of God.

Rom. 10:13 says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.". Without us calling on the name of the Lord, we cannot be saved.
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This seems like a contradiction to me. You initially say salvation is purely because of the grace of God, then add that we cannot be saved unless we call upon the name of the Lord. If our calling on the name of the Lord is required for us to be saved, how then is salvation purely of grace?
 
Aussie52 said:
The example I gave you is 'poetic parallelism'. It is where a statement is made and then repeated in a different way. Another example,' The Lord has made known is salvation and his righteousness has he openly shown'. He is saying the same thing is both cases but in a slightly different way. See this all the time in the Psalms.

Thus, Mary stated, 'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior'.

Magnifying the Lord with her soul is identical with rejoicing with her spirit. Spirit and soul are used interchangeably.
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Soul and spirit is not used interchangeably. They complement each other. That's why, they are referenced together.
 
maximc said:
No. They were saved by their faith just as Abraham was. So, the for the OT saints, it really does not matter much about knowing the tripartite nature of man. However, it is very much for us as NT believers to know this distinction because Satan attacks in our soul i.e. our mind, emotions, and will. For this reason, we need discerning through our spirit.
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Yes, but you continue to ignore Rom. 8:9. If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. There are two main ways God/Christ is encountered:

1. General revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture, beginning with the Golden Rule (Matt. 7:12). Apparently Abraham was saved on the basis of genrev, since the OT was not yet revealed.

2. Special revelation, which includes the OT & NT. Rom. 4:13&16 says Abraham was saved by the same faith Christians have, which implies he had the same HS Christians receive, even though He was not revealed until John 14-16 and Rom. 5:5, which was signified by WB (Rom. 6:3-4), and described as the new way of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6). Again, these truths foreshadowed the Gospel, so it seems likely that Abraham and succeeding saved folks received the HS when they believed.
:love:
 
Cameron143 said:
This seems like a contradiction to me. You initially say salvation is purely because of the grace of God, then add that we cannot be saved unless we call upon the name of the Lord. If our calling on the name of the Lord is required for us to be saved, how then is salvation purely of grace?
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The grace of God and the free will of man works in tandem.
 
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Cameron143 said:
This seems like a contradiction to me. You initially say salvation is purely because of the grace of God, then add that we cannot be saved unless we call upon the name of the Lord. If our calling on the name of the Lord is required for us to be saved, how then is salvation purely of grace?
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Again, the problematic/heretical part of tulip is not that sinners are saved by grace but rather that God only saves some by grace,
which means He loves/favors only the elect, which contradicts Scripture teaching that God does NOT show favoritism but loves everyone (Rom. 2:11, 1Tim. 2:3-4).
 
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GWH said:
Yes, but you continue to ignore Rom. 8:9. If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. There are two main ways God/Christ is encountered:

1. General revelation, which includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture, beginning with the Golden Rule (Matt. 7:12). Apparently Abraham was saved on the basis of genrev, since the OT was not yet revealed.

2. Special revelation, which includes the OT & NT. Rom. 4:13&16 says Abraham was saved by the same faith Christians have, which implies he had the same HS Christians receive, even though He was not revealed until John 14-16 and Rom. 5:5, which was signified by WB (Rom. 6:3-4), and described as the new way of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6). Again, these truths foreshadowed the Gospel, so it seems likely that Abraham and succeeding saved folks received the HS when they believed.
:love:
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According to Gen. 20:7, Abraham was a prophet. The HS was given to three groups of people in the OT. The kings, priests, and prophets. But the rest were being led by their soul. For them, they only had to believe what the men of God were instructing to them and follow accordingly. In the NT, God provides opportunity to be saved by the preaching of the gospel.
 
maximc said:
According to Gen. 20:7, Abraham was a prophet. The HS was given to three groups of people in the OT. The kings, priests, and prophets. But the rest were being led by their soul. For them, they only had to believe what the men of God were instructing to them and follow accordingly. In the NT, God provides opportunity to be saved by the preaching of the gospel.
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Come on, max. Is that not silly to say the HS was given only to some OT believers?!
 
maximc said:
The grace of God and the free will of man works in tandem.
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Even if we stipulate that man has free will, we aren't saved by the free will of man. We are saved by grace. As if to accentuate the point, the apostle says...and that not of yourself.

You made the statement that we are saved purely by grace. But in practice you actually believe we are saved by grace AND one's response to grace?
 
GWH said:
Again, the problematic/heretical part of tulip is not that sinners are saved by grace but rather that God only saves some by grace,
which means He loves/favors only the elect, which contradicts Scripture teaching that God does NOT show favoritism but loves everyone (Rom. 2:11, 1Tim. 2:3-4).
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That God favors some and not others is simply true. Were you chosen to be a king, slay a lion, perform miracles?

Has every person had access to a Bible, been born in opulence, given the same opportunities?

Who has decided these things? Who has set the bounds of our habitation? Can we simply go to a city and buy and sell and make much gain? Or is this by the Lord's will?

God has dealt differently from the beginning. He saves Adam and Eve but makes no provision for Satan and the fallen angels.

God is sovereign. He does as He pleases.
 
Cameron143 said:
That God favors some and not others is simply true. Were you chosen to be a king, slay a lion, perform miracles?

Has every person had access to a Bible, been born in opulence, given the same opportunities?

Who has decided these things? Who has set the bounds of our habitation? Can we simply go to a city and buy and sell and make much gain? Or is this by the Lord's will?

God has dealt differently from the beginning. He saves Adam and Eve but makes no provision for Satan and the fallen angels.

God is sovereign. He does as He pleases.
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So you contradict Rom. 2:11, 1Tim. 2:3-4 (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
indicating that every sinner has opportunity to be saved; God did not force Satan to fall.
I urge you not to be so blase about blasphemy!
God is pleased to save whosever chooses to believe/cooperate with Him (John 3:16, etc.).
 
GWH said:
So you contradict Rom. 2:11, 1Tim. 2:3-4 (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
indicating that every sinner has opportunity to be saved; God did not force Satan to fall.
I urge you not to be so blase about blasphemy!
God is pleased to save whosever chooses to believe/cooperate with Him (John 3:16, etc.).
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No partiality refers to the fact that God does not act in consideration of anything that is true of the individual, but acts sovereignly in all He does.

We are saved by grace through faith. Grace is the exercise of God's power in/on/through an individual.

If I have a leaky faucet, I might use a wrench to fix it. No one would say that the wrench fixed the faucet. They would say I fixed the faucet using a wrench.

In like manner, God saves by grace through faith.
Notice in my example, I am the one fixing by turning the wrench.
Notice also that it is God who exercises the grace and God who wields the faith. Salvation is the result.
 
Cameron143 said:
Even if we stipulate that man has free will, we aren't saved by the free will of man. We are saved by grace. As if to accentuate the point, the apostle says...and that not of yourself.

You made the statement that we are saved purely by grace. But in practice you actually believe we are saved by grace AND one's response to grace?
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Rom. 5:1-2 says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."
According to the verse above, we are justified by faith. So, what causes justification? our faith. Is that not a free-will? Later it says, "we have access by faith into this grace". So, what is causing us access into his grace? Again, faith.
When God gives us the gift of faith, we automatically believe. Once we believe, we call upon the name of the Lord thereby getting saved.
 
maximc said:
Rom. 5:1-2 says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."
According to the verse above, we are justified by faith. So, what causes justification? our faith. Is that not a free-will? Later it says, "we have access by faith into this grace". So, what is causing us access into his grace? Again, faith.
When God gives us the gift of faith, we automatically believe. Once we believe, we call upon the name of the Lord thereby getting saved.
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Sure, but what causes our faith: grace. This means God causes the faith.
We are saved when we believe. Calling on the name of the Lord reveals that we are saved. It comes subsequent to belief
 
Cameron143 said:
Sure, but what causes our faith: grace. This means God causes the faith.
We are saved when we believe. Calling on the name of the Lord reveals that we are saved. It comes subsequent to belief
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You are right when you say God causes the faith, but you are wrong when you say that we are saved when we believe. Rom. 10:10 says, "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.". We become righteous when we believe, but we are saved when we confess with our mouth. Calling on the name of the Lord is confession. This is when we are saved.
 
maximc said:
You are right when you say God causes the faith, but you are wrong when you say that we are saved when we believe. Rom. 10:10 says, "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.". We become righteous when we believe, but we are saved when we confess with our mouth. Calling on the name of the Lord is confession. This is when we are saved.
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Well then you don't actually believe salvation is purely by God.
 
Aussie52 said:
Cameron, come clean with your Calvinism belief in this matter, rather than purport that it is scripture.
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I'm not the one speaking contradictions. Something cannot be purely of God and require something in addition outside of God.
 
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