Calvinism is Gospel !

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No, we are not saved by our faith. Our faith is a byproduct of salvation, not its cause, otherwise, Christ wouldn't be the Savior that we have unquestionably be told in Scripture
You believe and then you are saved.

Faith does not save us, it satisfies the condition for Christ to save us. We must do something, which is believe.

Acts 16

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
 
Not possible. That would make man his own savior and Christ not the Savior but only a functionary of the process of salvation,
not the one who completely accomplishes salvation. The below verses help to clarify it. Notice in them, that there is no place for anything to be contributed from those whom He saves - it is all done solely by God's exceedingly great mercy and grace through Jesus Christ, Savior. The faith of those He saves is nowhere mentioned in them as a requirement- it is all, and is only, by God's mercy through Jesus Christ, Savior.


[Tit 3:4-6 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Again, the verses you put are true. God called us and had it planned from the beginning, but it's also true that we are required to put our faith in Jesus. That's not taking away from His sacrifice; nobody can save themself just by following the law. We're saved by Jesus. Our role is to believe in Him. (Mark 16:16, John 3:15) That's it. Faith, not works....

All of the Bible is true.
 
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Again, the verses you put are true. God called us and had it planned from the beginning, but it's also true that we are required to put our faith in Jesus. That's not taking away from His sacrifice; nobody can save themself just by following the law. We're saved by Jesus. Our role is to believe in Him. (Mark 16:16, John 3:15) That's it. Faith, not works....

All of the Bible is true.

The verses I posted say no such thing. You are adding a requirement to becoming saved that simply doesn't exist.
 
You believe and then you are saved.

Faith does not save us, it satisfies the condition for Christ to save us. We must do something, which is believe.

If it is a "condition" that we must satisfy to become saved, and should we do so, beyond question, we save ourselves. Under such criteria, Christ becomes a mere functionary used to implement that which we have already achieved, making us savior, not Him.
If, as you say, the "you believe and then you are saved" were true, the "shall be saved" wouldn't have been included.
Acts 16

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

I originally intended to go through a long-winded explanation of those verses, but I think instead that it would be better to ask you
how you believe Jesus Christ, as the Savior, saves someone, for Him to be the Savior that the jailor should believe in Him?
 
You would like to define 'foreknowledge' as God looking down the tunnels of time to gather data on human choices. But Peter completely destroys this definition in 1 Peter1:1,2, 1:19,20,21. In 1 Pe 1:1 -2, God tells us that the elect. are the elect, solely because of the foreknowledge of God and not because of God's knowledge of what they would do, which means the knowledge of what someone would do in the future is not the correct biblical definition of foreknow.
Mat. 25:41 clearly says that hell fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, not for humans. So, where is the question of predestination?

1 Pet. 1:2 says, "Elect according to
a) the foreknowledge of God the Father,
b) through sanctification of the Spirit,
c) unto obedience and
d) sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
So, according to this verse, a person is elect for the following reasons:
1. foreknowledge of God
2. because they are sanctified by the Spirit
3. because the sanctification will lead them towards obedience
4. because of the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ

So, do you see the word obedience listed in the reasons for being elect?
 
It's interesting how you point out the present tense.


In the calvies world, it should always be in the PAST tense.........From the foundation. But hey, God is not exact in the calvies world.
No, you lack understanding. It should not be written in past tense. God chose His elect “in Christ” before the foundation of the world.
On the cross, Jesus fully and decisively paid the legal price for His elect, thereby securing their salvation. Yet God applies that payment to each person only at the appointed moment that He chose they should become saved, bringing them out from under the law of sin and death and into the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The elect are not born already saved; they are conceptually still under wrath until the time God saves them, although that salvation must and will occur. From that moment on, everything else—including faith and justification—immediately flows unto them. The cross fully accomplished the payment, but the Holy Spirit applies it to them at a time chosen by God for them to become saved. Therefore, present tense was correct
 
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If your definition of "Total Depravity" is man having a sin nature because of which he is unable to know God and continues in sin, then I agree with you, but I still would not use the term "depraved" because that would mean that a person is incapable of doing anything. As you acknowledged that man is able to do quite a lot without being saved. Nevertheless, let me use your terminology for the sake of argument.
How can a totally depraved person receive God and be saved? Rom. 10:13-15 gives us the answer. When a preacher preaches the gospel, faith is built up in the heart of the hearer thereby he calls upon the name of the Lord and gets saved. Rom. 10:17 confirms the fact that the person who hears the gospel receives faith. Now if you don't acknowledge this, you are not being honest because this is plain English. It is not Greek or Latin to say that we could not understand.

Your logic of God sending people to hell just because Adam committed sin for which cause they have to suffer the consequences is just not illogical, it is plain demonic. Here is a disclaimer: "Anyone who reads my last statement and judges me must first read the context on which I have responded. The context is that awelight says that we are not judged on the basis of we rejecting Christ but on the basis of what Adam did."

You quoted from Romans 10 and believe this proves some point you are trying to make. It does not. You ignored all of the context leading up to this chapter. Romans 9, wherein Paul explains the sovereignty of God in "salvation" and Election is defended, (Rom. 9:8,11,13,15). Additionally:
Rom. 9:16 So then it is not of him that wills it, nor of him that strives, but of God that hath mercy.
Rom. 9:18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he is hardening.


Your constant complaint, aimed towards my argument, is that if man is depraved and is condemned because of the fall, how can God blame me or any other. Well that was answered in Romans. These two verses are the best answer to all who rebel against the Truth.
Rom. 9:19 You will say then unto me, Why does he still find fault? For who can withstand his will?
Rom. 9:20 Nay, O mere man, who are you that is making comments against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me this way?
Finally,
You made this unwise comment: "Your logic of God sending people to hell just because Adam committed sin for which cause they have to suffer the consequences is just not illogical, it is plain demonic. Here is a disclaimer: "Anyone who reads my last statement and judges me must first read the context on which I have responded. The context is that awelight says that we are not judged on the basis of we rejecting Christ but on the basis of what Adam did."
No, I never claimed that one will not be judged for rejecting Christ, or rejecting the Truth, or sin. Indeed, if any were guilty of all three, then they would be judged on all three. However, you seem to be rejecting the Truth of God's Word. Do you not know that all of mankind from Adam to the end of time stand condemned apart from being under the blood of Jesus Christ. Let me refresh your memory:

Rom. 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.
Rom. 5:18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.
Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Verse 18, makes it clear, that everyone stands condemned because of Adams fall. He was our federal head. I know, the Apostle Paul already wrote about what you are probably thinking:
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
This is how John Gill expressed Rom. 5:18 in the late 1700's.

Therefore as by the offence of one,.... Or by one offence, as before, the guilt of which is imputed to,

judgment came upon all men to condemnation; which word is used in a legal sense, and intends condemnation to eternal death, as appears from the antithesis in the text; for if "justification of life", means an adjudging to eternal life, as it certainly does, the judgment or guilt, which is unto condemnation, must design a condemnation to eternal death, the just wages of sin: and this sentence of condemnation comes upon all men, all the sons of Adam without exception, even upon the elect of God themselves; though it is not executed upon them, but on their surety, whereby they are delivered from it:
 
Mat. 25:41 clearly says that hell fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, not for humans. So, where is the question of predestination?

Nope. It is also for anyone whose name was not written in the book of life

[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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I believe all of those verses. I just don't believe God chooses randomly. He gives grace to the humble but resists the proud

Your response seems to imply that you have some concept of how God chose individuals, to place into Christ, before the foundation of the world. Then what say you about the following:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
.
 
We are required to believe. Faith is not works, it is obedience.
Romans8-6-7s.png

Romans 8 v 6-7 The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
 
1 Cor. 2:14 out of context, and already shown to not support total inabliayt here on CC many times over.

Jesus was speaking to his disciples, again context, it is not about you.

Ohhhh, come on now my friend - you can't slide out of this that easily. Please explain to us all, what John 6:44 means, since you seem to suggest that it does not mean what it says. I will repost the verse and what I had stated:

John 6:44 No one is able to come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. The Greek word for: "is able", (dynatai), means: ability. It is an indicative verb, in the middle voice. It literally means: "able of themselves". Therefore, we could translate 6:44 in this manner: No one is able of themselves to come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Question?
Who appointed whom on Christian Chat to be Supreme - sitting over debates on Theology. 1 Cor. 2:14 has been shown by whom to not mean inability? Do you believe that something becomes more true because more people believe it? What about the theory of evolution? The whole world bought into that one.
 
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Nope. It is also for anyone whose name was not written in the book of life

[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev. 3:5 speaks of the possibility of names being blotted out from the book of life. This indicates that everyone's name was written in the book of life. Their names are being removed because of unbelief. Heb. 3:12 affirms this fact.
 
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You quoted from Romans 10 and believe this proves some point you are trying to make. It does not. You ignored all of the context leading up to this chapter. Romans 9, wherein Paul explains the sovereignty of God in "salvation" and Election is defended, (Rom. 9:8,11,13,15). Additionally:
Rom. 9:16 So then it is not of him that wills it, nor of him that strives, but of God that hath mercy.
Rom. 9:18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he is hardening.


Your constant complaint, aimed towards my argument, is that if man is depraved and is condemned because of the fall, how can God blame me or any other. Well that was answered in Romans. These two verses are the best answer to all who rebel against the Truth.
Rom. 9:19 You will say then unto me, Why does he still find fault? For who can withstand his will?
Rom. 9:20 Nay, O mere man, who are you that is making comments against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me this way?
Rom. 9 is not about salvation. It is about how God sovereignly decided to build the nation of Israel. In choosing whose generation should form the final nation of Israel, he did not ask anyone's consent. Through this promised lineage comes Jesus, and therefore salvation belongs to only those who fall within this promised lineage of Jesus Christ. Finally, Paul makes the conclusion of the whole matter in Rom. 9:30-32 by saying, "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;"
The above scripture clearly says that the gentiles are saved because of faith, and not because of predestination. The Israelites forfeited salvation because they did not want to change their mindset away from the law, and not because of predestination.

Regarding the other point where we inherit the sin and curse of Adam, I completely agree with you, but what I don't agree is when people reject the gospel of Christ, you are saying that they are not being condemned because they rejected the gospel, but they were already condemned because of Adam.
 
The verses I posted say no such thing. You are adding a requirement to becoming saved that simply doesn't exist.

I said the verses you posted are true, which they are. Then I said God called us, which He did. I then said that we are required to put our faith in Jesus and I put the Bible verses that state this to be true. I'm not adding a requirement, I'm repeating the word of God, which you have decided is false as it doesn't align with your precepts. Avoid this pitfall
 
How do you know?
Evanescent grace suggests there is a temporary grace that God gives, but it fades with time.
How do I know? From God's word. For example:

(Php 1:6 NKJV) being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

(Joh 6:37 NKJV) All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

(Eph 1:11-14 NKJV) In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

(1Jn 5:13 NKJVThese things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
 
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I'm sorry, I did not get you.
Sorry, that may be at least partly because of by careless typo, "II" instead of "I". I was replying to the question: "Do Calvinists have eternal security?" By my reply I meant that although obviously I don't know every Calvinist in the world, all those I do know have eternal security, and on the basis of God's word and Christ's saving work, I have that security too. I hope that makes it clearer, and apologies for being unclear before.
 
In every instance where God states that his mind cannot change, the context is his long term plans for the nation of Israel. Every one. Maybe God has chosen to deal with man in such a manner that he invites man into a relationship with him, and that relationship can be influenced through prayer and obedience to his word. Can you imagine God being reachable and touchable with our prayers? His word?

This is going down a very dangerous path, my friend. This thought process of yours might make you feel better but it flies in the face of Biblical teaching. You are correct when you said God has a long term plan - not only this, He has a long term "eternal" plan for everything and everyone. The plan is eternal and therefore unchangeable because it comes from the eternal mind of God.

Only Jesus Christ, the perfect man, (Fully God and fully man), prayed always, in the will of His Father. Prayer - offered up to God, heard, executed by God on our behalf - must be in the will of God, or we could say, must be in accordance to His eternal plan and purpose.

1Jn. 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he hears us:
1Jn. 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Praying in the will of God, for believers, is to know His will for us. We can know His will for us by studying the Bible and believing the Truth therein. The more we know about what God reveals of Himself, in Scripture, the more we understand His will for us and the more closely we align our requests to what He would have for us.

Eph. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has previously ordained that we should walk in them.


 
although obviously I don't know every Calvinist in the world, all those I do know have eternal security, and on the basis of God's word and Christ's saving work, I have that security too.
You are saying that you as a Calvinist has the assurance of eternal security. However, you are not sure of other Calvinists. Does that mean that predestination for them may not be guaranteed?
 
You need to pay attention.

The Calvies say......Not really saved because ______________________........Doomed to hell.

The Armies say.......Lose salvation because_________________________.......Doomed to hell.

The calvies and the armies are on the same page in the end of it all.
I was replying to a post that had claimed that Calvinists teach that some believers are doomed to hell, yet I have never heard or read of anybody with Calvinistic beliefs saying or writing such a thing . I am sure all Christians of all persuasions believe that sinners who persist in their unbelief are doomed to hell, but that is a different matter than saying that Calvinists teach that some believers are doomed to hell. They don't believe that.
 
You are saying that you as a Calvinist has the assurance of eternal security. However, you are not sure of other Calvinists. Does that mean that predestination for them may not be guaranteed?
No, all I meant was that because I don't personally know every Calvinist, I cannot say from my own knowledge that all Calvinists believe that that they have eternal security, but I can say that all of them that I know, or whose books I have read, do.
 
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