Daniel’s “Final Week” (70th Week) Has ALREADY Been Fulfilled

[WayneNSO]

@HeIsHere

Have you ever started a thread in here ?

 

[HeIsHere]

@HeIsHere

Have you ever started a thread in here ?

No, but you should if you have an idea... I think the owners appreciate it when people take an interest in starting new threads.

 

[WayneNSO]

No, but you should if you have an idea... I think the owners appreciate it when people take an interest in starting new threads.

I tried last night - it said waiting for approval but has not gone up so I guess it was not approved

 

[HeIsHere]

I tried last night - it said waiting for approval but has not gone up so I guess it was not approved

Sometimes it can take a day or two I have been told, the admin is only online intermittently.

 

[HeIsHere]

I tried last night - it said waiting for approval but has not gone up so I guess it was not approved

Sometimes people ask on OnceFallen's profile page after a few days.

 

[WayneNSO]

Sometimes it can take a day or two I have been told, the admin is only online intermittently.

Oh - if it takes days maybe it will go up

 

[cv5]

cv5 - "As you can see, your comrade has suffered yet another ignominious, yet oh so necessary defeat."

He is that influenced by that Russian Jewish theologian that he even calls me your comrade, I need one of those fluffy hats they wear Just in case he bamboozled you over what I said was the start date - here's a little more info comrade:

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.
The first 69 weeks are split into two periods, the first being 7 weeks or 49 years. Daniel tells us that during this period "the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:25

Ezra did not succeed in rebuilding of the walls until Nehemiah arrived thirteen years later, in Nehemiah 4 verses 17 to 18 we read:

Nehemiah 4:17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.

The building of the walls was one of Nehemiah's main missions, see Nehemiah chapter 2. It took him 52 days to complete the task. And they had to build whilst being attacked by enemies. Hence the workers having a trowel in one hand and a sword in the other. And this rebuilding did indeed take 49 years, with the commissioning of Ezra and then Nehemiah. And it was in troublous times, just as the angel Gabriel told Daniel it would be. This period extends from 457 B.C. to 408 B.C.

"Secular historians and mainstream biblical commentators recognize **March 445 B.C.** (Nehemiah 2) as the only historically and textually valid imperial decree that authorized the reconstruction of the physical city and walls of Jerusalem."

Sir Robert Anderson's astute analysis of Daniel 9 has never been debunked, only and ever confirmed.
And stands to this day unassailable.....

Yes, wise men and scholars do indeed have a firm grip on the truth of this crucial matter.

 

[Lovette]

Please, allow me help you:

Act 7:13
“And the second time Joseph was made known to his brothers, and Joseph's family became known to the Pharaoh.

You can thank me later.

Irrelevant to the 70th week.

Jesus. "A strong covenant for one week"

So you say the God-Man Jesus Christ is actually the Satan-man the little horn the beast the greater Goliath the greater Judas (or maybe Judas himself...!) who deceives Israel into a covenant that he will break and then turn against them in an effort to destroy them all?

Sorry, not buying it. For very many very good very obvious reasons.

No, quite the opposite, identifying the "he" in Dan. 9:27 as Antichrist instead of Jesus Christ is what you're accusing me of. God didn't need the Israelites' animal sacrifice, Lord Jesus offered himself as the one and final sacrifice; afterward, every faithful follower dies daily as a living sacrifice in the temple of their body, there won't be a third temple and resumed animal sacrifice, that'd be an abomination to God.

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?”
Says the Lord.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats. (Is. 1:11)

For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise. (Ps. 51:16-17)

 

[Lovette]

Ok let's walk thru this:

March 14, 445 B.C.: the imperial decree given by King Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia to Nehemiah to rebuild the city of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2).

April 6, A.D. 32 : Triumphal Entry of Jesus into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (10th Nisan, the Lamb inspection day).

Total elapsed time : 483 (360) day years = 173,880 days.

So you are tacking on 176,400 days to whatever the date might be of Daniels prayer?

Daniel 9:1–2 states that the prophecy was received:
"...in the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans..." which is about 539BC.

The Result:
Subtracting your additional 490 prophetic years (176,400 days) from 539 B.C. lands in late 57 B.C. or early 56 B.C.

What is relevant about 57 B.C.?

Absolutely nothing.

Your source is wrong, the decree was issued on 457 BC.

Is it possible to identify the decree that permitted the restoration and rebuilding of Jerusalem as described by Daniel? Many scholars, from different religious traditions, have found in the book of Ezra the fulfillment of the Danielic prediction. But the interpretation of the evidence has not been a simple matter because there are in Ezra several different decrees concerning the exiles and Jerusalem. We find a decree from Cyrus in 538 B.C. (Ezra 1:1-4; cf Isa 45:1), the Decree of Darius in 520 B.C. (Ezra 6:1-12), the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. (7:12-26), and even an authorization given to Nehemiah to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem in 444 B.C. (Nehemiah 1)

https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/articles/the-70-weeks-and-457-b-c

 

[cv5]

Irrelevant to the 70th week.

No, quite the opposite, identifying the "he" in Dan. 9:27 as Antichrist instead of Jesus Christ is what you're accusing me of. God didn't need the Israelites' animal sacrifice, Lord Jesus offered himself as the one and final sacrifice; afterward, every faithful follower dies daily as a living sacrifice in the temple of their body, there won't be a third temple and resumed animal sacrifice, that'd be an abomination to God.

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?”
Says the Lord.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats. (Is. 1:11)

For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise. (Ps. 51:16-17)

You are facing a grim, tedious, exhausting and arduous uphill slog to find the legit, confirmed eschatological truth as spoken by Daniel, Jesus, and Paul.

I say so because of that enormous baggage train you are saddled with, consisting of various bogus dogmas, a priori fallacies, historical errata, and similarly egregious misapprehensions.

Best of luck!

 

[Lovette]

You are facing a grim, tedious, exhausting and arduous uphill slog to find the legit, confirmed eschatological truth as spoken by Daniel, Jesus, and Paul.

I say so because of that enormous baggage train you are saddled with, consisting of various bogus dogmas, a priori fallacies, historical errata, and similarly egregious misapprehensions.

Best of luck!

You've been accusing me of your own guilt the whole time. It is you who're defending and propagandizing your own added narrative in the 70 week prophecy out of its own context.

 

[cv5]

Irrelevant to the 70th week.

No, quite the opposite, identifying the "he" in Dan. 9:27 as Antichrist instead of Jesus Christ is what you're accusing me of. God didn't need the Israelites' animal sacrifice, Lord Jesus offered himself as the one and final sacrifice; afterward, every faithful follower dies daily as a living sacrifice in the temple of their body, there won't be a third temple and resumed animal sacrifice, that'd be an abomination to God.

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?”
Says the Lord.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats. (Is. 1:11)

For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise. (Ps. 51:16-17)

cv5 said:
Please, allow me help you:

Act 7:13
“And the second time Joseph was made known to his brothers, and Joseph's family became known to the Pharaoh.

You can thank me later.

@Lovette said:
Irrelevant to the 70th week.

**********************************

Far from being 'irrelevant,' Acts 7:13 explicitly establishes the prophetic pattern for the 70th week: just as Joseph made himself known to his brothers on their second visit, so too will Christ reveal Himself to Israel at His Second Coming.

For anyone to issue a casual dismissal of such an epic reality betrays a degree of callowness, incognizance, and stygian biblical illiteracy that should shake anyone here to the marrow.

 

[Lovette]

cv5 said:
Please, allow me help you:

Act 7:13
“And the second time Joseph was made known to his brothers, and Joseph's family became known to the Pharaoh.

You can thank me later.

@Lovette said:
Irrelevant to the 70th week.

**********************************

Far from being 'irrelevant,' Acts 7:13 explicitly establishes the prophetic pattern for the 70th week: just as Joseph made himself known to his brothers on their second visit, so too will Christ reveal Himself to Israel at His Second Coming.

For anyone to issue a casual dismissal of such an epic reality betrays a degree of callowness, incognizance, and stygian biblical illiteracy that should shake anyone here to the marrow.

Still irrelevant. I'm not denying that prophetic pattern, but Jesus was "cut off" in the 70th week, by which he ended the sacrifice and offering. That's like the opposite of revealing himself to his "brothers", who crucified him as a criminal and a fraud.

 

[GaryA]

What I do possess however is brute perseverance, determination, grit and resolve to apprehend the truth. Because I earnestly desire it.

Those are good qualities to have - IF they are applied with proper discernment. Otherwise, your 'earnest' is misplaced - captured by deception.

Do not try to "apprehend" the truth; rather, [just] "let it be" - do not chase after it - let it come to you.

Learn to [just] trust in God - and, wait on Him - if you will do this, He will show you amazing things.

 

[GaryA]

The Church Age does not constitute a gap?

No - absolutely not. Why? Because, this prophecy is not about the Church Age; rather, it is about the last 490 years of the 'Times of the Jews' before the start of the 'Times of the Gentiles'.

 

[cv5]

No - absolutely not. Why? Because, this prophecy is not about the Church Age; rather, it is about the last 490 years of the 'Times of the Jews' before the start of the 'Times of the Gentiles'.

As you well know, every argument that you have ever set forth on this matter has been soundly debunked - unfailing and without exception.

Frankly, everyone on this thread who is not a futurist dispensationalist has taken such an epic and perpetual shellacking that one can only behold the spectacle with morbid awe.

 

[cv5]

See how he twists and deceives ? Nehemiah took over from Ezra that was not the start of countdown. Nor was the date that Daniel received the prophecy the start of it.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The prophecy tells us the weeks commence with the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem

Ezra 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the Lord, and of his statutes to Israel.
12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

The majority of historians and bible scholars date this decree at 457 B.C.

If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D.

Jesus the son of God became the anointed one or Messiah when he was baptised in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which was 27 A.D.

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

This marks the start of the 70th week and the start of the earthly ministry of the Messiah.

"If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D."

Actually, we MUST use the 360 day "prophetic year" in these cases.

Aaaannnnnddd............you have just lost 7 years!

And what happened in 20AD? Absolutely nothing........

Pro tip: always use 173,880 days, and then convert to calendar years.

 

[Lovette]

"If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D."

Actually, we MUST use the 360 day "prophetic year" in these cases.

Aaaannnnnddd............you have just lost 7 years!

And what happened in 20AD? Absolutely nothing........

Pro tip: always use 173,880 days, and then convert to calendar years.

No we don't, there were 390-day leap years, every 6th and 40th year was a leap year. No functional calendar would fall behind 5 days a year.

When you apply 486.5 years to 457 BC, though, you get 30AD, widely believed to be the year of crucifixion.

 

[cv5]

No we don't, there were 390-day leap years, every 6th and 40th year was a leap year. No functional calendar would fall behind 5 days a year.

When you apply 486.5 years to 457 BC, though, you get 30AD, widely believed to be the year of crucifixion.

No. You are conflating the ordinary Jewish lunisolar calendar with the prophetic chronological unit used in Daniel and Revelation.

The argument for a 360-day prophetic year does not depend on claiming that the Jews conducted ordinary civil life with an uncorrected 360-day calendar. It comes from the biblical equivalence of 42 months, 1,260 days, and “time, times, and half a time.” That yields twelve 30-day months, or 360 days per prophetic year.

Accordingly, the sixty-nine weeks are calculated as:

69 × 7 × 360 = 173,880 days.

That fixed prophetic interval is then mapped onto ordinary historical chronology, including the leap years of the Julian calendar. The Julian year is therefore the civil framework used to locate the dates—not the prophetic benchmark itself.

Your proposed calculation also uses a disputed starting point. The 457 BC date is based on the decree associated with Ezra 7, whereas Sir Robert Anderson begins with Nehemiah 2 in the twentieth regnal year of Artaxerxes because that passage explicitly concerns authorization to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls.

Furthermore, 457 BC to AD 30 is approximately 486 years, not Daniel’s 483 years, and “486.5 years” is not a chronological unit supplied anywhere in Daniel 9. You have selected a beginning and ending date and then reported the elapsed solar time; you have not demonstrated that this is the interval specified by the prophecy.

Anderson’s precise 445 BC–AD 32 reconstruction is very tight indeed, and yes, later scholars such as Harold Hoehner revised some of its dates. But Jewish leap months do not refute the 360-day prophetic-year argument, and a 457 BC starting point cannot simply be assumed without first proving that Ezra 7—not Nehemiah 2—is the decree intended by Daniel 9:25.

 

[cv5]

No we don't, there were 390-day leap years, every 6th and 40th year was a leap year. No functional calendar would fall behind 5 days a year.

When you apply 486.5 years to 457 BC, though, you get 30AD, widely believed to be the year of crucifixion.

BTW, I took the time to verify my calculations.
And yep, this is basically spot on......
Your calculation is short by approximately seven calendar years because you treated 483 prophetic years as 483 ordinary solar years.

****************************************************************************************

"If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D."

Actually, we MUST use the 360 day "prophetic year" in these cases.

Aaaannnnnddd............you have just lost 7 years!

And what happened in 20AD? Absolutely nothing........

Pro tip: always use 173,880 days, and then convert to calendar years.