I would object to the concept of an "evil" copier. While it is possible, to my mind such people would have been caught a long time ago. Now deliberately "correcting" a word or phrase to reflect current conditions is a given to have occurred, Isaiah 19:18 being just one example. The genealogies in the Torah also exist in three different forms, with only the overall time frame staying consistent, ages at fatherhood and death changing, as do names and identified initial descendants.
In your opinion is the entire Bible "inerrant" or "infallible" as it relates to scripture?
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Galilean Jews tended to follow a different calendar than did Judean Jews. The two calendars differed by two days. Thus, the Galileans would have celebrated the Passover two days earlier than the Judean Jews, implying that it was the Judean Jews who did not want to become unclean and not able to celebrate the Passover feast. It also suggests that the Last Supper would have been on Wednesday night and a Passover feast for the Galilean disciples.
The reference to an evil copier was hypothetical, meant to show that the way we would discern which word or words were correct and not changed would be by comparing the problematic part with other statements purported to be inspired by God in order to see what is the overall or consistent message, so that we can acquire sufficient evidence to have reasonable belief that warranted discounting it--which is what we would need to do even if no evil copier changed God’s words.
Thus, we cannot know absolutely or infallibly what is GW or not; we walk by faith with confidence gained as we compare passages in order to discover whether there are any inconsistencies needing to be harmonized. However, a completely inerrant Bible is not needed as long as there is sufficient consistency in God’s messages to humanity via the creation (TOJ #4), the scriptures (TOJ #3), the incarnate word (TOJ #186) and logic (TOJ #182) for souls to discern God’s requirement for salvation.
The context of "have not yet eaten " does not mean they were not prepared to eat it. "YET." has context. Also "it was early morning."
Jesus ate the Passover meal with the disciples and went to the Garden where he was Betrayed.
- The Last Supper occurred on the evening of Passover.
- Passover begins at sunset and lasts for seven days, commemorating the Exodus.
- Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot shortly after the Last Supper.
- The betrayal led to Jesus' arrest later that night.
The two calendars theory exists in several different versions. Just a few weeks ago, in fact I started a thread on the subject but it wasn't a success. Your version, however, is new to me. Can you give a source for it, providing evidence for both the differences -- the two-day gap and Galilee vs Judea? Thanks.
You seem to be saying that the unnamed "they" in John 18:28 are going to eat their Passover meal about twenty-four hours after Jesus ate the Last Supper with his disciples. Is that correct?
You say you agree with me that the Last Supper was a Passover meal. How, then, do you explain that twenty-four hour difference between one Passover meal and the other?
The existence of the two calendars is supported by the DSS. I would have to dig back through my records to cite the reference for teh DSS calendar being far more common in Galilee than the official Judean one.
Sir, in case you didn't notice, I specifically pointed out the cultural and historical reference part, that's not a matter of translation. If you hear a conversation between two engineers about a project in technical jargons, or if you hear two friends reviewing a movie which you've never watched, even though they speak in plain English, you won't understand what they're talking about.
I did not finish my point . there were many Passover meals but only one known as The Last Supper, which refers to the last Meal Jesus had with His Disciples. The Passover was not only a meal as you kmow.
The Passover was not only a meal, certainly. No doubt about that. But there was only one Passover meal. There was only one day on which the pilgrims took their lambs to the Temple to be slaughtered and there was only one evening on which they all ate their lambs at the Passover meal, all pretty much at the same time.
Ah, okay, thanks. Yes, I remember reading something about a different calendar. It may have been in Allegro's book or it may have been in Edmund Wilson's book. I read both of those at pretty much the same time. I'll see what I can find. I don't remember any mention of Galilee in the calendar connection, though.
A more complete framing of the points of view of when Jesus and was resurrected:
Here is a brief look at each viewpoint:
Jesus was crucified on a Friday
Early Friday: Jesus eats the Passover.
Late Friday: Jesus is crucified and buried.
Early and late Saturday (the Sabbath): Jesus is in the tomb.
Early Sunday: Jesus rises from the dead, and the women find the empty tomb.
The traditional view is that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. According to this timeline, Jesus was killed in AD 30, and the day of preparation was Passover, Friday, Nisan 14. That was the time to eat the Passover meal and to ready dwellings for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which began the next day, Saturday, Nisan 15. The fact that Jesus was killed on Passover accords well with 1 Corinthians 5:7, which calls Christ “our Passover lamb.”
Mark 15:42 says that Jesus was crucified on “the day before the Sabbath”; proponents of the Friday view consider the “Sabbath” here to be the weekly observance held on Saturday. Immediately after Jesus was taken down from the cross, the women present followed the body of Jesus to the tomb to see where it was laid. This happened “late on Friday afternoon, the day of preparation, as the Sabbath was about to begin” (Luke 23:54, NLT). On the day after the crucifixion (Saturday, Nisan 15), the chief priests and the Pharisees met with Pilate, who agrees to have the tomb sealed and guarded (Matthew 27:62).
The Friday view has Jesus in the tomb for three days by reckoning part of a day as a full day: Jesus was buried late in the day Friday (Day 1) and was entombed Saturday (Day 2) and the first part of Sunday (Day 3). Another argument for Friday points to verses such as Matthew 16:21 and Luke 9:22, which say that Jesus would rise “on the third day.” Sunday is the third day from Friday.
According to the Friday view, the “three days and three nights” prophecy of Matthew 12:40 was fulfilled in that both Jesus and Jonah were “confined” in difficult situations where they could not move about freely for three periods of darkness (night) and three periods of light (day). The three nights of confinement for Jesus were His arrest on Thursday night and His time in the tomb Friday night and Saturday night (or, as reckoned in the Jewish method—in which a day begins at sunset—early Friday, early Saturday, and early Sunday). The three days for Jesus were all day Friday, all day Saturday, and part of Sunday.
Jesus was crucified on a Thursday
Late Thursday: Jesus is crucified and buried.
Late Thursday through early Sunday: Jesus is in the tomb.
Early Sunday: Jesus rises from the dead, and the women find the empty tomb.
One point to be made in favor of the Thursday view is that Jesus’ prophecy of the sign of Jonah specifically includes three nights as well as three days (Matthew 12:40). If the crucifixion occurred on Thursday afternoon, the three days and three nights are all accounted for.
As for Luke’s statement that Jesus was taken down from the cross because “the sabbath was about to begin” (Luke 23:54), the Thursday view points out that there were actually two Sabbaths that week, the first Sabbath starting at sundown Thursday, followed by the regular Sabbath starting at sundown Friday. In fact, John’s account says that “the next day was to be a special Sabbath” (John 19:31); Passover was considered a special Sabbath (see Leviticus 16:29–31; 23:7, 24–32, 39).
Further, Matthew 28:1 says that the resurrection occurred “after the Sabbaths” (Berean Literal Bible)—the plural sabbaths being in the original, confirming there were multiple Sabbaths between the crucifixion and the resurrection. So, the “Passover” Sabbath was followed immediately by the “weekly” Sabbath, making the first opportunity to prepare the body for burial on Sunday at first light—and the women came to the tomb to do just that.
Thursday advocates also point to several passages that indicate the number of days between the crucifixion and the resurrection. For example, in John 2:19, Jesus says, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” Three days from Thursday is Sunday. In addition, when Jesus appears to the two men on the road to Emmaus on resurrection Sunday, they state that “it is the third day since all this took place” (Luke 24:21). A natural reading of this sentence would place the crucifixion on Thursday.
Advocates for a Thursday crucifixion consider the “Preparation Day” to be the day before the Passover, the High Sabbath (John 19:14). Preparation day was the day that the Passover lamb was killed prior to the Passover meal that evening—which, according to Jewish reckoning, was the beginning of the next day (Mark 14:12). It is clear from the Old Testament instructions on the Passover (Exodus 12:6; Leviticus 23:5) that the lamb was to be slaughtered late in the day on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Nisan—which was Thursday afternoon in AD 32. Thursday advocates point out that at the same time Israel was slaughtering their Passover lambs on Nisan 14, Jesus, the “Lamb of God” (John 1:29) was dying on a cross. Thus was fulfilled the prophetic symbolism of the Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7).
Based on this timeline, Thursday proponents also argue that the Last Supper, eaten on Wednesday evening, was not the Passover meal. The main course at Passover was a lamb, and there is no lamb mentioned at the Last Supper. Only bread and wine are mentioned.
Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday
Late Wednesday: Jesus is crucified and buried.
Early Thursday (Passover) through Late Saturday (Sabbath): Jesus is in the tomb.
Friday (between the two Sabbaths): the women buy and prepare the spices.
Early Sunday: Jesus rises from the dead, and the women find the empty tomb.
Those who argue for a Wednesday crucifixion agree with the Thursday view that there were two Sabbaths that week, but they separate them by a day. The first Sabbath, in this view, was the Passover Sabbath starting Wednesday evening following the crucifixion (Mark 15:42; Luke 23:52–54). Then came a non-Sabbath day (Friday) and then the weekly Sabbath starting Friday evening. The women purchased spices after the Sabbath, according to Mark 16:1—meaning the Passover Sabbath. Luke 23:56 says that, after the women saw where Jesus was buried, “they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.” The Wednesday argument states that the women could not purchase the spices after the Sabbath and prepare those spices before the Sabbath unless there were two Sabbaths that week, separated by a day.
Supporters of the Wednesday viewpoint see theirs as the only explanation that does not violate the biblical account of the women and the spices and holds to a literal understanding of Matthew 12:40. The “three days and three nights” of Matthew 12:40 are reckoned as follows: early Thursday (Day 1), late Thursday (Night 1), early Friday (Day 2), late Friday (Night 2), early Saturday (Day 3), and late Saturday (Night 3).
A difficulty with the Wednesday view is that the disciples who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus did so on “the same day” of His resurrection (Luke 24:13). The disciples, who do not recognize Jesus, tell Him of Jesus’ crucifixion (verse 20) and say that “today is the third day since these things happened” (verse 21). Wednesday to Sunday is four days. A possible explanation is that they may have started their count on Wednesday evening at Christ’s burial, which begins the Jewish Thursday, and Thursday to Sunday could be counted as three days.
These various understandings of the Gospel narratives demonstrates that Christians of good will can disagree on important issues with equal scriptural validation.
rewriter
1. This is the original text. It contains the first five books of the Hebrew Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). It is the foundational story of the Jewish people and the laws given by God to Moses.
2. The Oral Torah (Torah Shebe'al Peh)
For thousands of years, this existed as spoken instructions. It includes the explanations, details, and traditions that explain how to follow the laws in the Written Torah. For example, the Written Torah says to rest on the Sabbath but doesn't define what "work" means. The Oral Torah provides those rules. This was eventually written down in books called the Talmud and Midrash.
3. Physical Formats (Sefer Torah vs. Chumash)
The text itself can be presented in two different material ways:
Sefer Torah: This is a large, handwritten scroll used in the synagogue. It is made of animal skin and written with a feather. It is strictly for public reading.
Chumash: This is a bound book. It comes from the Hebrew word for "five." It is the version people use at home or school for daily study. It often includes translations and commentaries along the sides
Faith should be confident because based on evidence, but that does not make it proof or certainty.
every person went to the temple and were able to sacrifice their lamb, dove, or cow at the same time? Or was it done over the period of time on that day ?