Calvinism is Gospel !
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This thread is specifically about Calvinism.
The question you should ask is if AI is sycophantic and ingratiating, telling you what you hope to hear, instead of being reliable and objective. Quoting AI slop is not a serious response in a discussion.
Your labels mean a lot to you, don’t they?
I do not follow Arminianism or any theological system.
What Bright did was to explain why it didn't fit Brights system. I'm trying to build truths from the Bible. Brights system is assumed to be true by Bright. I don't start with that assumption. If Bright wants to rail against timelines, it's the Bible's timelines, not mine. I said that they were not born again, since that is the Biblical result of believing. In Brights mind, that only leaves option "B", the flesh. And then Bright rails against that, not the fact that option "A" does not fit Brights theological ideas.
People in the OT were not born again, yet they believed. I think at that point, a person would ask "How is that possible?" Lets look closer, maybe there is something more to the picture than what I'm seeing. Maybe the framework that I'm seeing Scripture in is not correct. How does it all fit together? Instead, I'm getting what I'm getting.
Ephesians 1:13 if you look closely, is a NT promise fulfilled.
Believe and be saved. That's the Gospel. That's not a foreign idea that I got from some cult. Believe and be saved is in harmony with everything that I'm saying. That's important to me. It has to all fit together, or something's wrong. The only thing that Bright is using to accuse me of being wrong, is a few verses interpreted wrongly by Bright without any context, and a false system of teaching.
The sad part is that I believe it's still God's grace that brings a person to believe, but it's not from being born again. But we'll never get that far, because this discussion gets stonewalled by 200 year old arguments and the framework baggage that goes with it, leaving people always trying to steer the discussion within that framework. The framework is not Biblical, but that's all they know.
I've had a few rounds with Bright on other forums, so this is nothing new.
Anyone he disagrees with on certain Biblical truths is a Calvinist to him; he lies, and slanders,
and falsely accuses others, and also distorts the historical record, because he is a liar with CDS.
It seems many with CDS behave in this very same manner. They love their lies and logical fallacies.
They turn to such behavior because their opinions based on a philosophical construct are no match
for the Scriptures they continually reject, contradict, and outright deny. Some rewrite the words of Christ.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
So, then you are saying those AI statements are wrong? Where?
But good to know that you don't follow any systems, so then you shouldn't have any problem henceforth posting the misdeeds of both sides, not just one. I'll eagerly be watching to remind you in case you or others forget.
I haven't been following your entire dialogue with @brightfame52, but on the surface atlest, it did seem to me that Bright was referencing Scripture to make the points.
This thread is not about Calvinism vs. Arminianism.
If you want to discuss that topic, a new thread should be started.
This thread claims erroneously that Calvinism is gospel.
Sharing carefully edited portions of the history of John Calvin is how this thread was started.
A. It is true that a person who is still living in bondage to their carnal mind will resist the gospel, the testimony of Christ's life, and even the influence of the Holy Spirit. However, that does not mean this situation cannot be changed.
B. In fact, Paul's goal as an Apostolic evangelist was to do just that
C. He tells us that we, the saints, have access to God's supernatural power that can accomplish this:
3 For though we live in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh.
4 The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
5 We tear down arguments and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.…(2 Corinthians 10:3-5)
D. Paul shows us here that the work of bringing those who walk in darkness into the light is a titanic struggle.
E. However, it does not depend soley on us
F. God has equipped us to do this by giving us access to His throne to receive His mercy and help
G. He has also given us the immediate presence of the Holy Spirit who is our Helper
H. The drawing of the Holy Spirit is certainly necessary in bringing people to repent of sin and believe in Christ.
Jesus also said that once He had been "lifted up" on the cross He would commence drawing all men to Himself (John 12:32).
I. The Greek term for DRAW is helkó (ἕλκω) which can have a range of force. When it comes to inanimate objects the external force completely dominates and takes on the meaning DRAG. The same can be said for when Peter DREW ashore the heavy load of fish or when Paul and Silas were SEIZED by force and DRAGGED into the marketplace.
J. On the other end of the scale of force we have the gentle influence that impels with little to no external force. In this case, the same word helkó can be understood as IMPELLING, a gentle swaying towards an objective. This is the way we understand God to draw human souls to Himself. He does not drive or drag sheep. He guides and leads them. This shows how wrong Augustine's attitude was about the nature of God. He interpreted the scripture about the Master COMPELLING the destitute to join the feast as dragging people to attend Church by force.
No, we follow Scripture, so what Scripture do you think Arminius did not follow?
I'm not talking about either one; I'm talking about you and the unfairness you demonstrate with your singling out of Calvin but not others - that you are trying to place your thumb on the scales. This is not a difficult concept.
So if I mentioned how murderous other theologians were when John Calvin was advocating for the execution of his theological opponents — this would make Calvin seem better?
As if “everybody else was doing it” is going to make Calvin seem less guilty of homicidal intentions?
The “what aboutism” excuse is really weak.
This thread is not about comparing Calvin with other theologians, it is about if Calvinism is gospel, which it isn’t.
Calvinism is anti-gospel.
Show from the scriptures how Total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and preservation of the saints is anti gospel ! Ive been showing how these teachings are Gospel Truth
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
So, how is a person born again without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
Both are the result of believing, right?
Believe, and Jesus places the Holy Spirit [life/faith] in us, called the placing into/baptism/immersion with/by the Holy Spirit. That indwelling places Jesus in us, and us in Him, justifying us, as the imputed righteousness of God and the atonement now apply to us because of that spiritual union. And that spiritual union also places us into Christ's death and raises us up with Him, born again. Beginning the process of being conformed to Christlikeness, otherwise known as the life, the faith that Jesus Authors and Finishes.
Surely you must realize by now, only their proof texts really matter.
And btw ....................world does not mean every single person without exception, it means the elect of every tribe, groups and nations.
Anyone he disagrees with on certain Biblical truths is a Calvinist to him; he lies, and slanders,
and falsely accuses others, and also distorts the historical record, because he is a liar with CDS.
It seems many with CDS behave in this very same manner. They love their lies and logical fallacies.
They turn to such behavior because their opinions based on a philosophical construct are no match
for the Scriptures they continually reject, contradict, and outright deny. Some rewrite the words of Christ.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
Here we have an example of not understanding the problematic issue being discussed,
which is NOT whether sinners need Jesus to free them but whether God invites everyone
to accept Jesus or only allows a few to be saved, thereby manifesting favoritism toward the few
and hatred for the rest.
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