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S
Scotth1960
Guest
The church can't contradict the Bible because it is the pillar and ground of the truth. Perhaps you want to contradict the Bible and you don't believe that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth, which the Bible says that it is in 1 Timothy 3:15. The same Church in 1 Timothy 3:15 is the Church that wrote the Creed in 381 AD in Constantinople, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Deny this fact and you deny the Holy Spirit and you deny the truth (John 16:13).
You know, you aren't doing anyone favours when you spread falsehoods about us Catholics.
#1. We don't believe the Holy Spirit is absent, nor do we see the Pope as the replacement for said absent Holy Spirit.
#2. We honour the Theotokos just as you Orthodox do and as the Scriptures foretold ("All generations will call me blessed!")
#3. The Filioque is not heretical. It shouldn't have been added to the Creed without a council approval, but when you look at the theology behind it, and the reasons it was added, you'll find that it's perfectly in line with what the Church has always taught.
#4. We don't worship the Bible, we worship Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
Next time pay attention to what I ask in detail. I know you don't believe they contradict. I want to know though, hypothetically, if they do contradict, who do you follow?
Try again.
the full context of what I said said:
I'll get to your question since you atleast tried to answer my question.
2 Tim. 2:2 seems to say that we can trust that God will enable us to have trustworthy men to pass on the teachings of the Lord.
So, with the power of the Holy Spirit, I'd say yes, God can use fallible men to preserve His infallible message.
i reckon the point is, knock off the calvin-as-this-and-that/luther-as-this-and-that propaganda and stick to the facts.
if you've run out of reasons to condemn protestants, why not try answering straight-forward questions?
while we're at it.....how come you never address the rebuttal of EO's single proof text justifying Scripture PLUS 'tradition'?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
just a couple easy questions:
a) was the NT canonized when paul wrote the letter?
b) who is the "us" he is referring to?
c) who is the "our" he is referring to?
d) is paul saying the apostles' spoken words or letters? or EOs?
if that's the only ground for rejecting Sola Scriptura, Houston, we have a problem.
zone.
L
Loved
Guest
I know I am no where near worthy of adding my two cents worth here, but the Holy Sprit convicted me to do so, and it is not me, but CHRIST in me.
Here it is:
The Church is a business, and the Catholic Church is one of the largest.
With the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, 2 Timothy 3:16 works. Without the Holy Spirit, the Bible is just a bunch of words.
"Actual situation: X (certain individual) says the Bible says do X. What do you do? Do you trust X (private individual), or do you trust Y (Y being the Church that Christ Himself founded, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth, 1 St. Timothy 3:15)? Do you listen to one man; or do you listen to many witnesses in Christ (cf. the Book of Hebrews), do you listen to the Catholic Church?"
I do not take any man's word, especially the man written doctrines of Churches, I take notesduring preaching, Sunday school, Bible study, etc.
I the Bible says so, thnit is so (PERIOD).
[READY TO TOLD I AM WRONG] LOL
Nohwoter
Here it is:
The Church is a business, and the Catholic Church is one of the largest.
With the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, 2 Timothy 3:16 works. Without the Holy Spirit, the Bible is just a bunch of words.
"Actual situation: X (certain individual) says the Bible says do X. What do you do? Do you trust X (private individual), or do you trust Y (Y being the Church that Christ Himself founded, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth, 1 St. Timothy 3:15)? Do you listen to one man; or do you listen to many witnesses in Christ (cf. the Book of Hebrews), do you listen to the Catholic Church?"
I do not take any man's word, especially the man written doctrines of Churches, I take notesduring preaching, Sunday school, Bible study, etc.
I the Bible says so, thnit is so (PERIOD).
[READY TO TOLD I AM WRONG] LOL
Nohwoter
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
I'll check the bible and see if it does say what the person claims it says. If the bible is true, should it not lead me to the right church? So essentially I am choosing Y, and in a sense I am not. Since by Y you mean the EOC anyway. So I am seeking the Church that Christ founded, yes... however, it will only be yours if that is what scripture agrees with.
I listen to God and his Word.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Where did he say that?
Where do you guys say that?
Ask God, and search his Word.
In Cape Girardeau MO
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AnandaHya
Guest
The "Church" is built upon JESUS CHRIST and HIS Gospel which is contained in the Bible and the Hearts of His disciples.
Jesus Christ is the Head and the Holy Spirit is the blood that ties all parts of the body together. Members of God's family can be found in all nationalities, all walks of life, all denominations, all genders. The only requirement is that they are born again and have the Holy Spirit testify and allow them to cry out Abba, Father.
Jesus said He rules a spiritual Kingdom and it is not of this material tangible world, but we can show His love for us by loving others around us in the same manner He first loved us and died for the remission of our sins.
True Christianity is Biblical in that GOD inspires both Christians and the BIBLE.
Jesus Christ is the Head and the Holy Spirit is the blood that ties all parts of the body together. Members of God's family can be found in all nationalities, all walks of life, all denominations, all genders. The only requirement is that they are born again and have the Holy Spirit testify and allow them to cry out Abba, Father.
Jesus said He rules a spiritual Kingdom and it is not of this material tangible world, but we can show His love for us by loving others around us in the same manner He first loved us and died for the remission of our sins.
True Christianity is Biblical in that GOD inspires both Christians and the BIBLE.
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L
Loved
Guest
AMEN Sister!!!
This is how my Bible is interputed by the Holy Spirit to me.
Not sure what Bilble some are reading or how it is interputed (by GOD or man)
Rember, the pasor, pries, and even the pope are just mere men
-------
One question for the Catholics.
Who was James and did Mary die a virgin?
Nohwoter
scott.
along with the Holy Spirit, what is IN the Church making it the pillar and ground of truth?
a) icons
b) locks of hair
c) the Bible
Hi Ds,
I agree we have trustworthy men who diligently everyweek preach the word in truth, and fallible men are. However, God has chosen to leave his revelation in written form. Just look at church history!
Why must we denigrate the status of men? Using your that same argument we could say that the Biblical authors were "fallible men". In reality though they were men, as were all the Apostles and writers of the New Testament. The problem with "Bible Alone" is precisely this: That by limiting yourselves to Bible Alone, you make the men who wrote the Bible into the ONLY infallible authors and so thus you make an IDOL out of both them and the Bible itself. When you view the Bible in such a way, you make idols out of men, making them infallible. This is idolizing the authors of the Bible to think that they are the only infallible men!
So take a look and see that it is you who put your trust in men (the authors of the Bible). The Eastern Orthodox Church trusts in the Holy Spirit, not in a book written by men (the Bible), nor in in man (the Pope). This is the same Holy Spirit who inspired the authors of the Bible, the Church and the all the Saints from the beginning of time, unto the ages of ages, AMEN.
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no.
NOT amen.
does your church know you're saying this? scott....is this accurate EO dogma?
actually NC, if you have an official EO statement saying this is i would like to see it. this pretty much ends the matter if i see an official declaration like this one.
When I say that we don't trust in the Bible I was meaning Bible Alone. We certainly believe that the Bible is Sacred and Holy, and we give it precedence in the Church, but we don't believe in the Bible Alone. I was calling this man / book idolatry. Its believing that only one time and for all, God gave infallible men in order to write the Bible, this is making the authors / book into an idol. The fact is that there were other men (successors of the "infallible" Apostles) who were as holy or almost as holy as the Apostles or Prophets and wrote and expounded on the Christian Faith, they were Bishops and Saints of the Church of Christ. Men like this still exists in the Holy Lands (like Russia and Greece), but are are not really found in America because America has become Christian Babylon.
S
Scotth1960
Guest
You don't believe the Bible in John 15:26, and your worship of
Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity is therefore Semi-Sabellian
heresy and papal schism based on papal quest for power over
the whole inhabited earth. In Erie Scott H.
The pope of Rome, John Paul II, apologized for the way the
papacy had treated non-Catholics in the past. It is way past
due for a pope to have done that. What I said in number 1 is
true. I experienced the absence of the Holy Spirit while I was
a Protestant, although there were rare moments when I felt
His presence, and He restrained me from going further into
sin, and He rescued me at various points from consummating
my sin.
At other times I ignored the Holy Spirit, and did whatever on
earth that I wanted to do.
The Blessed Mother must indeed be divine if she was
conceived without sin. The teaching of Catholicism does
indeed elevate the Ever-Virgin Mary Theotokos into a
Co-Redemptress and Co-Mediatrix with Christ. This is not the
official teaching of Eastern Orthodoxy, although some
Orthodox do use similar sounding terminology and language.
But no Orthodox Christian goes as far as Rome does into its
form of Mariolatry. There was a group of heretics called the
Collyridians, and today's Roman Catholicism has a form of
Collyridianism in its Mariology. As for the Protestants, they
go to the opposite extreme from the Catholics, they are like
the Antidicomarianites of old, and they fail to call Mary the
Mother of God Blessed among women, and blessed in and
unto all generations, and they deny her sanctity, and the
sanctity of her Ever-Virginity.
3. Yes, the Filioque is heretical. The Eighth Ecumenical
Council of 879-880 AD, the Fourth Council of Constantinople,
which was endorsed and ratified by Pope John of Rome at the
time, restored Blessed Saint Photios the Great to the
Constantinopolitan Ecumenical Patriarchate, and condemned
with a holy, eternal, and everlasting Anathema against the
Filioque teaching. See: The Synodicon of the Holy Spirit, in:
Saint Photios. (1983). On The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit.
Holy Transfiguration Monastery, translators. Boston, MA:
Studion Publishers. To fail to read this book by Saint Photios
is to fail to learn the truth and the Orthodox meaning, which
is the true Biblical meaning, of John 15:26.
Rome errs because Rome does not believe what Jesus Christ
said in John 15:26, and Rome places the Popes of Rome above
and beyond and over against the words of Jesus Christ, the
words of Christ in the Bible, the words of the Bible.
This is all because Charlemagne threatened the life of Pope
Leo III and the other popes of Rome during his reign, so it
was Charlemagne who ultimately be held responsible for
Roman Catholicism's heresy, and also King Reccared the
Visigoth in the heretical Third Council of Toledo, Spain, in 589
AD. There is a sense in which the Holy Spirit is indeed
present with every human being, even with those whose
consciences are seared greatly and terribly by their sin(s).
There is a sense in which the Spirit is present even with those
who are in heresy. He works through the crumbs of truth
which fall on the floor of the hearts of the unfaithful. Even as
Christ said it is not right to give what is holy unto dogs, the
lady replied that even the dogs eat the crumbs of food that
are given to them, the crumbs of bread. Catholics and
Protestants feed on the Crumbs of truth; the very term
"Crumbs" is present in Kierkegaard's work "Philosophical
Fragments", which has also been translated Philosophical
"Crumbs". There is enough in Catholicism and Protestantism
and enough grace given to them, whereby they can, if God is
willing, yet be saved. But this is an exception, and God's
perfect will is still eternally and only Holy Orthodoxy. More
grace is given to the Orthodox Church, much saving grace of
the Holy Spirit, than to the Non-Orthodox communions. Yet I
know I did first begin to come to Christ when I was
non-Orthodox; and I am still not completely and fully Eastern
Orthodox yet. I've just confessed my sins to an Orthodox
priest. I'm only an ex-Lutheran and an ex- Assemblies of God
Pentecostal Charismatic. I'm an ex-Protestant, but not an
Ex-Christian. My experience is not necessarily the same as
every soul in the ELCA, in Lutheranism. The Lutherans didn't
teach me to do the sins that I did. Nor did Martin Luther.
But Luther's attitude in this matter was not good. It does no
good to a sinner who should be told by the Lutherans to
repent to remember what Luther said, "Be a sinner and sin
boldly". The Lutheran churches I attended didn't preach to
me the seriousness of sin, and that I should repent.
But I repented at the teaching of THE RUDDER of the EOC. It
took me a while after I first heart of Orthodoxy to confess my
sins, and to stop sinning my habitual sins.
So in no way do I look down or feel any bad feelings against
or about either Lutherans, Protestants of any kind, or Roman
Catholics. I love all Christians, of all traditions. I just wish
Rome and Lutherans, etc. would come and confess and
believe the simple truth: FILIOQUE IS HERESY.
God bless all of us in Christ Jesus.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS The Holy Spirit is not completely present in Catholicism
and in Protestantism, so in that sense He is indeed absent in
the lack of grace that is given them; but He has given them
some grace, and they have enough grace to know that
Filioque is heresy, if they swallow their pride, repent of their
papal infallibility heresy and Protestant tradition heresy of
faith alone and scripture alone. God save us all: AMEN AND
AMEN.
There is therefore no condemnation for all who are in Christ
Jesus: Protestant, Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican,
Eastern Orthodox. All Christians need to repent of heresies,
and that includes any heresies and schisms that arise within
the Eastern Orthodox Church, which are sins against the truth
and unity of the Holy Catholic Apostolic Eastern Orthodox
Church.
L
Loved
Guest
Who decides which Scriputure is correct and which ones are not?
I have so many more questions, but will ask only this one.