Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

[DavidLamb]

Your understanding of the Lord Jesus is different from theirs.
They also have a different understanding of who the Lord Jesus is.

Can we really say that people with different views about the nature of God can both be right?
Isn't God the One who teaches the truth?
Would He teach different and conflicting views about Himself?
If God is the source of truth, why would He lead people to hold contradictory beliefs about His own nature?

Can people who teach different doctrines truly be considered born again and to have the same faith?

As I keep saying, I know very little about Oneness teaching. So I have no idea how different their understanding of the Lord Jesus Christ is.

I believe that God is a God of truth, and that it is by carefully studying His word, the Bible, that we find the truths about His nature. If somebody has views about God's nature that go against what we find in the Bible, for example, if somebody says that God is not eternal, or that He tells lies, then we must say, on the basis of God's word, that those views are wrong.

Because none of us has perfect understanding of the Bible, there are different ideas/teachings about matters such as baptism, Creation, and church order. Such different views don't mean that people holding them are not born again. But if somebody believes that they can be saved, not by the finished work of Jesus Christ, but by trying their best to live a good life, or because they come from a Christian family, or something like that, then they are not born again. Over and over again, the Bible says that it is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that a sinner is saved. For example:

(Joh 3:14-16 NKJV) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

(Act 16:30-31 NKJV) And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[dkontner]

Jesus told them who He is. They wanted to stone Him.

John 8
King James Bible

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

 

[Godsgood]

Of course He had told them many times about His relationship with the Father, but just as when He told them several times that He would be crucified and rise again, they were slow to learn, as we see from John 12:16 (NKJV):

At first his disciples didn't understand these things. However, when Jesus had been glorified, they remembered that these things had been written about him and that people had done these things to him.


I am asking you, because it was you that said, or at least implied, that God the Father has a physical body.

Of course He had told them many times about His relationship with the Father, but just as when He told them several times that He would be crucified and rise again, they were slow to learn, as we see from John 12:16 (NKJV):

At first his disciples didn't understand these things. However, when Jesus had been glorified, they remembered that these things had been written about him and that people had done these things to him.

Since He had repeatedly explained this to them, there was no reason for Felipe to ask about it again. Therefore, Felipe's request was, "Show us the Father," not, "Show us the resemblance between You and the Father."


I am asking you, because it was you that said, or at least implied, that God the Father has a physical body.

We're here to find the truth. Are you sure I'm the one you should be asking if you want to know the truth? Or are you asking me just to challenge me?
That is why I do not claim that the truth comes from me.

As far as I know, only the Lord God can truly reveal the truth, because God is the truth.

 

[Godsgood]

There were various aspects of His deity that the Son laid aside while He was here on earth. As God, He is everywhere, but as Man, He needed to go from one place to another (though His power was not limited - think of how He healed the centurion's servant without going to the centurion's house.) The knowledge of "that day and hour" was another aspect of His deity that He had laid aside while here on earth.

If the Lord Jesus knew the answer but said that He did not know because He had set aside His divinity while he is in this world, it would make Him appear to be telling a lie.

The Lord Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the truth." Therefore, He speaks the truth.
When He told His disciples in Matthew 24:36 that He did not know the day or the hour of the end of the world, He was speaking the truth at that time.

 

[Dei-Gratia]

I remember a formerly popular pastor who had a conference in Pittsburgh. He focused his teaching on Judas being unsaved and a few doctrines.

The next conference he also focused on Judas as an example, but THIS time he confidently believed that Judas was saved!

One thing I have learned to do is to 99% of the time disregard commentaries. Regardless the pastor, I take what he says with the salt shaker, knowing he's a man prone to make mistakes.
Everything should first be filtered through basic fundamental doctrine. I have an open mind to ch

I have a couple of reasons Iange, but not on essential basics that the Word is clear on.

I think Judas was an unbeliever, namely that he's called by Jesus....

12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17

Perdition in context seems to mean damnation

How can an unsaved Iscariot perform miracles?
How can he Baptize?

 

[Dei-Gratia]

Don

Jesus said, that it was better that the man who betrays him, that it was better that he had never been born. I don't believe he made it.

Don't you think it's metaphoric?

 

[Dei-Gratia]

None of the disciples were "saved" in the same way we are saved after the cross. None of the disciples even understood the cross because it was hid from them. Only until after the resurrection did the Lord start to slowly open their eyes to the truth behind his d,b,r.

How come Peter asked for forgiveness after he denied Jesus?

 

[Godsgood]

As I keep saying, I know very little about Oneness teaching. So I have no idea how different their understanding of the Lord Jesus Christ is.

I believe that God is a God of truth, and that it is by carefully studying His word, the Bible, that we find the truths about His nature. If somebody has views about God's nature that go against what we find in the Bible, for example, if somebody says that God is not eternal, or that He tells lies, then we must say, on the basis of God's word, that those views are wrong.

Because none of us has perfect understanding of the Bible, there are different ideas/teachings about matters such as baptism, Creation, and church order. Such different views don't mean that people holding them are not born again. But if somebody believes that they can be saved, not by the finished work of Jesus Christ, but by trying their best to live a good life, or because they come from a Christian family, or something like that, then they are not born again. Over and over again, the Bible says that it is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that a sinner is saved. For example:

(Joh 3:14-16 NKJV) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

(Act 16:30-31 NKJV) And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

On their own, people cannot know who belongs to God and who does not.
However, to those whom God has chosen, He reveals who does not belong to Him.
That is why He makes it known to his chosen.
MATTHEW 22:1-13
22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Therefore, we who know the one true God can already tell, simply by the doctrine a person follows, whether they are of God or not, because God reveals this to us.

 

[Godsgood]

I would say that Jesus, as fully God, knew the heart of the rich young ruler, and knew that the young man did not believe Jesus to be God in the flesh. Jesus asked the question to show the ruler that he needed to go further, from calling Jesus good, to recognising Him as God.

Let us not forget what the Lord Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the truth."
Therefore, every word that comes out of the mouth of the Lord Jesus is nothing but the truth.
When He told the young ruler that He was not good, it was the truth.

The reason He said this to the young ruler was to show the Jews what it means to be humble before God.
Therefore, His words remain relevant even in our time, because this is what He wanted to teach Christianity: how to humble oneself before God (1 Peter 2:21).

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

How can an unsaved Iscariot perform miracles?
How can he Baptize?

The disciples did not know who the traitor was either, but Jesus knew from the beginning.

As far as Judas doing miracles, where are those found and what does they have to do with salvation?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

When He told the young ruler that He was not good, it was the truth.

The reason He said this to the young ruler was to show the Jews what it means to be humble before God.
Therefore, His words remain relevant even in our time, because this is what He wanted to teach Christianity: how to humble oneself before God (1 Peter 2:21).

You don't think Jesus was good?
Why do you think Jesus was not good?

 

[DavidLamb]

If the Lord Jesus knew the answer but said that He did not know because He had set aside His divinity while he is in this world, it would make Him appear to be telling a lie.

The Lord Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the truth." Therefore, He speaks the truth.
When He told His disciples in Matthew 24:36 that He did not know the day or the hour of the end of the world, He was speaking the truth at that time.

I didn't say that the Lord Jesus Christ knew the answer but said He did not know it. I said that various aspects of His deity were laid aside when He left heaven to come to earth. As God, He was present everywhere, but when He came to earth, He limited His presence, and had to travel from one place to another. I imagine (though we are not told specifically) that His knowledge of the time was a aspect of His deity that He had laid aside. I assure you I was not suggesting that Jesus told lies. If He did, He would have sin of His own, and would have been useless as a Saviour. Praise God, although He was tempted, He did not sin, ever:

(Heb 4:15 NKJV) For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Dei-Gratia]

The disciples did not know who the traitor was either, but Jesus knew from the beginning.

As far as Judas doing miracles, where are those found and what does they have to do with salvation?

Mathew 10

My question was, 'can an unsaved person preach the gospel let alone performing miracles?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Mathew 10

My question was, 'can an unsaved person preach the gospel let alone performing miracles?

4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matthew 10 doesn't say anything about Judas personally doing miracles, just the Lord's disciples in general.

There are a number of spiritual phenomenon throughout the Bible, carried out by the lost.
This only shows that demons have been provided a number of powers before the rebellion.

Do you Remember reading of Moses casting down his rod and it turning into a serpent that ate the demonic court magicians' serpents?
They were able to somehow reproduce a few of the first plagues as well.
Jesus rebuked a storm that presumably was not sent from the Father.
There were exorcists in the gospels including those who use that as one of the reasons for Jesus to judge them worthy of eternal life

What do you think is required for one to have eternal life?

 

[GWH]

Matt. 26:24 vs. 27:3-5: the jury is still out.

con saved vs. pro saved

 

[Godsgood]

You don't think Jesus was good?
Why do you think Jesus was not good?

If it were only up to me, I would never say that Jesus is not good.
However, humility before God is necessary in order to believe in and trust the Lord Jesus.
So it is not I who said that He is not good; He Himself said it.
My response to Him is, "Amen", meaning, "Yes, Lord, I believe You."
At the same time, I would ask, "Lord Why did You say that?"

Therefore, I will never insist on my own opinion.
Instead, I choose to believe what the Lord says, because He declared in John 14:6, "I am the truth."

 

[Godsgood]

I didn't say that the Lord Jesus Christ knew the answer but said He did not know it. I said that various aspects of His deity were laid aside when He left heaven to come to earth. As God, He was present everywhere, but when He came to earth, He limited His presence, and had to travel from one place to another. I imagine (though we are not told specifically) that His knowledge of the time was a aspect of His deity that He had laid aside. I assure you I was not suggesting that Jesus told lies. If He did, He would have sin of His own, and would have been useless as a Saviour. Praise God, although He was tempted, He did not sin, ever:

(Heb 4:15 NKJV) For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I didn't say that the Lord Jesus Christ knew the answer but said He did not know it. I said that various aspects of His deity were laid aside when He left heaven to come to earth. As God, He was present everywhere, but when He came to earth, He limited His presence, and had to travel from one place to another. I imagine (though we are not told specifically) that His knowledge of the time was a aspect of His deity that He had laid aside. I assure you I was not suggesting that Jesus told lies. If He did, He would have sin of His own, and would have been useless as a Saviour. Praise God, although He was tempted, He did not sin, ever:

If that is the case, then what you meant by, "He temporarily laid aside certain aspects of His deity," is not very clear. Could you give some examples of those aspects? Also, why would He set aside His deity, and what was His purpose in doing so?

Let us remember that the Lord Jesus' only purpose was to seek the lost sheep by revealing the truth to them.
What connection does that have with your statement that "He temporarily laid aside certain aspects of His deity"?

 

[Godsgood]

Of course He had told them many times about His relationship with the Father, but just as when He told them several times that He would be crucified and rise again, they were slow to learn, as we see from John 12:16 (NKJV):

At first his disciples didn't understand these things. However, when Jesus had been glorified, they remembered that these things had been written about him and that people had done these things to him.


I am asking you, because it was you that said, or at least implied, that God the Father has a physical body.

I am asking you, because it was you that said, or at least implied, that God the Father has a physical body.

We're here to find the truth.
Are you sure I'm the one you should be asking if you want to know the truth?
Or are you asking me just to challenge me?
Do you think that if you could prove to yourself that I am mistaken, would that be a basis for your salvation?

All I can say to you is I do not claim that the truth comes from me.

As far as I know, only the Lord God can truly reveal the truth, because God is the truth.

But I can share to you what God's revealed to me with regards on what he said "I and My Father are One".

Let me know if you are willing to listen to my sharing.

 

[DavidLamb]

I didn't say that the Lord Jesus Christ knew the answer but said He did not know it. I said that various aspects of His deity were laid aside when He left heaven to come to earth. As God, He was present everywhere, but when He came to earth, He limited His presence, and had to travel from one place to another. I imagine (though we are not told specifically) that His knowledge of the time was a aspect of His deity that He had laid aside. I assure you I was not suggesting that Jesus told lies. If He did, He would have sin of His own, and would have been useless as a Saviour. Praise God, although He was tempted, He did not sin, ever:

If that is the case, then what you meant by, "He temporarily laid aside certain aspects of His deity," is not very clear. Could you give some examples of those aspects? Also, why would He set aside His deity, and what was His purpose in doing so?

Let us remember that the Lord Jesus' only purpose was to seek the lost sheep by revealing the truth to them.
What connection does that have with your statement that "He temporarily laid aside certain aspects of His deity"?

As God (in other words, through His Deity), Jesus Christ could not die, be thirsty or hungry, be tired. As Man, Jesus Christ experienced all those and more. As God, Jesus Christ is omnipresent. As Man, He was not omnipresent, but travelled from place to place. Those are just examples of aspects of deity laid aside by the Lord Jesus Christ at His incarnation.

 

[Dei-Gratia]

4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Matthew 10 doesn't say anything about Judas personally doing miracles, just the Lord's disciples in general.

There are a number of spiritual phenomenon throughout the Bible, carried out by the lost.
This only shows that demons have been provided a number of powers before the rebellion.

Do you Remember reading of Moses casting down his rod and it turning into a serpent that ate the demonic court magicians' serpents?
They were able to somehow reproduce a few of the first plagues as well.
Jesus rebuked a storm that presumably was not sent from the Father.
There were exorcists in the gospels including those who use that as one of the reasons for Jesus to judge them worthy of eternal life

What do you think is required for one to have eternal life?

Honestly, that's a sad response from you.

In Matthew 10, Jesus called his disciples and gave them power and authority and sent them to go spread the gospel and perform miracles.

Was Judas Iscariot part?

Just be open-minded, please.