If Christ paid the sin debt for all humanity, how are not all said to be redeemed?
Calvinism is Gospel !
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If Jesus never died for all mankind's sins?
All of us would have to be thrown into a garbage heap, and no one could be offered salvation.
Our sins not atoned for would have prevented God to make such an offer.
His atonement opened the door for us to be saved.
For He did all that was needed on the Cross for us to be saved.
That is why it says, in 1 Timothy 4:10...
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
grace and peace .............
Savior of all kinds of people. People from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
All people don't become saved because not all believe.
Now back to the actual subject of my post: if Jesus paid the sin debt for all of humanity, how are not all redeemed?
The term EFFECTUAL call is not actually used in the text of scripture. You have had to COIN this special theological term and then to ADD the idea INTO the text. This was how the ancient Gnostics perverted the scripture - by assuming their presuppositions and then insinuating them into the text. They justified this practice by asserting that they had received special revelation which was rejected by other naturally-minded unenlightened Christians.
Your ideas, like theirs, come from OUTSIDE SCRIPTURE from teachers like Augustine who had imported many of their ideas from the Gnostic cult of Manichaeism to which Augustine had belonged for nine years prior to his conversion. Subsequently he interwove deterministic ideas into Christian terminology. One example of your attempt to do away with moral agency and responsibility is how you have attempted to eliminate human choice by promoting the EXISTANCE of two KINDS of calls - one of which is effectual and limited and another of which is universal but devoid of any power to save.
Of course, Paul never spoke about a presentation of the gospel being counterfeit and deceitful. He only acknowledged the existance of the one message he preached:
16 I am not ashamed of THE gospel, because it is THE power of God for salvation to EVERYONE who BELIEVES IT, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17 THE the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”…
(Romans 1:16-17)
Paul never promoted a counterfeit gospel which did not have the power to save anyone who believes. Offering a cure that cannot cure and has no therapeutic benefit breeds false hope which might actually lead to the death of a sick person who takes it. In our culture, such a person is guilty of fraud and malicious intent.
This makes God Himself a deceiver as much as a seller of sterile seed would be considered a deceiver. This is especially serious if what the person is offering as a cure for an illness is not only false but known to be false. It is a sign of malicious intent as well if sold to someone in desperate condition
Your idea that faith itself is the gift of God rather than the willing response of a human to the Spirit comes from
a total misunderstanding of the meaning of Ephesians 2:8:
Ephesians 2:8
8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; IT is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.…
You misunderstood this verse because, in English, IT is an INDEFINITE PRONOUN. The reason it is INDEFINITE is because English nouns do not have gender. However, the Greek language in which the Bible was written has THREE genders - Masculine, Feminine and Neuter. Also nouns must also agree in gender with with their referrant pronouns and adjectives.
In this instance, the PRONOUN IT is a neuter pronoun which grammatically could NOT refer to either GRACE OR to FAITH since both of those words are FEMININE. To see what this verse is saying we will have to consult with someone who is widely regarded as a consummate master of Koine Greek dialect - A. T. Robertson.
Here is what Robertson wrote about what Paul was saying:
Ephesians 2:8
And that (κα τουτο). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη, and so refers not to πιστις (feminine) or to χαρις (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (εξ υμων, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (δωρον) and not the result of our work.
So contrary to what you have said faith, trusting in relying upon depending upon God is an position humanity has to take. It is not a GOOD WORK (that that earns God's favor through meritorious works). To say this would undermine the difference between faith and works that Paul establishes in much of his writings.
Abiding is also about our continuing to believe the gospel and following after Jesus. In fact, when Jesus taught on the necessity of ABIDING, REMAINING IN, CONTINUING IN CHRIST He used the illustration of the Vine-Branches relationship.
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
A. In John 15:2 Jesus speaks about a BRANCH (i.e., a believer/follower of Jesus) who is taken away.
Since branches are organically connected to the Vine they cannot be taken away unless they are first severed from the Vine.
Only then can they be hauled away and disposed of. According to Jesus this happens only after a long period of bearing NO FRUIT at all.
B. In John 15:6 Jesus goes into even more detail about someone who was originally joined to Him but subsequently became alienated and did not continue:
6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
"Withering" speaks of the gradual cessation of the process of life.
Notice that the final cause of their departure is said to be IN THEM in their failure to continue, remain and abide in Christ. What they did or did not do is the result of many choices to serve the world, the flesh and the Devil rather than the One to whom they owed their lives.
C. Grace, as I have said, refers to God's FAVOR towards us which is based on the kind intentions He has towards man. Your doctrine compells you to say that human choice has nothing to do with it but Christ uses the possibility of our falling away as a warning to us. God does not issue warnings to animals or inanimate objects which have no moral agency.
Do you click your heels and trust out one arm when you declare that?
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
Go back to sleep!
Confuse them with the truth?
They still remain aloof.
Because each person needs to accept the sacrifice of Christ on the cross for their personal sins.
Jesus carried all the sins and sicknesses of humanity. He did bear them for us, so we can all be saved and healed. But if you reject what Jesus did, you cannot reap the benefits of it.
Young's Literal Translation Isaiah 53:4,5
Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace is on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us.
He doesn't save all people. He does save people out of every nation, kindred, tribe, and tongue.
There was a mindset in 1st century Jewry that salvation was only for Jews. The verse you shared, as well as many others, is an apostolic attempt to change this mindset. No longer is salvation predominantly a Jewish reality but open to those who believe in all nations.
Now that this has been addressed, can you actually answer my question: if Jesus paid for the sin debt of all humanity, aren't all people redeemed?
Simple question: does your theology support that all of humanity has been redeemed?
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