The Torah foreshadows Christ by testifying about him and we should live in a way that testifies about him by following his example of embodying it rather than a way that bears false witness against him. For example, the way to believe that Jesus is holy is by testifying about his holiness through being a doer of God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy found in the Torah. The way that someone should cease to follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be they believe that God has ceased to be holy. The point of being a Christian is to be like Christ, not to refuse to be like him. The reason why Jesus established the New Covenant was not so that we could reject all that he is.
Knowing God.
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Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4), so he reaffirmed everything that God spoke, not just a few things that He spoke. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Torah that we have knowledge of sin sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Torah is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of the Torah. Someone can't be saved from not being a doer of the Torah while they are not a doer of it and it is contradictory for someone to want salvation from sin while not wanting to be a doer of the Torah.
God's character traits are eternal, so the way to know God through embodying them has existed from the beginning regardless of when God gave instructions for how to do that. There was no actions that became righteous or unrighteousness when the Torah was given, but rather the Torah revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that.
New covenants do not nullify the promises of covenants that have already been ratified, so God's covenants are cumulatively valid and everything that God's covenants teach us about how to know Him through embodying His character traits is cumulatively valid. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if it is cumulative with it. One thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality, so a computer makes a typewriter obsolete but does not make a plow obsolete, which means that if the New Covenant was not cumulative with the Mosaic Covenant, then it could not make it obsolete. So the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is cumulatively based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). It is not the case that the New Covenant is made with a different God with a different set of character traits and a different set of laws for how to embody those character traits, but rather it is made with the same God with the same character traits and the same cumulatively valid instructions for how to know Him through embodying His character traits.
The reason why the Torah was given is to teach us how to have an intimate relationship with God and Jesus by embodying His character traits and it will always have this purpose for as long as God's character traits remain eternal.
Sin is still what is contrary to God's character traits and the Spirit has the role of leading us to embody God's character traits in obedience to the Torah (Ezekiel 36:27-28)
If you think that God was a Judaizer for giving the Torah and Jesus was a Judaizer for spending his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example, then it would be good to be a Judaizer, but that is not what I think it means. Paul's problem with the Judaizers in Galatians was not because they were teaching Gentiles how to follow what Christ taught but because they were wanting to require Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, so I am in complete agreement with Paul's stance against them.
I guess the concept of having the Holy Spirit instead of obeying the Law is foreign to an avowed Judaizer,
so we are looping and there is nothing more I can say about this topic, since you ignore the NT Scripture I have cited.
Adios for now. Hope you eventually become a Messianic Christian. Sorry we could not find one to join this discussion.
The problem that Paul had with the Judaizers were wanting to require Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved and I completely agree with Paul's opposition to them. The concept of having the Holy Spirit instead of obeying the Torah is foreign to the Bible. Which verse NT Scripture have I ignored? Following Christ's example of obedience to the Torah is in accordance with Messianic Judaism.
you just wont listen, I have proved to you some cannot be followed, why do you persist? are you a pharisee? don't you believe Jesus fulfilled all that pointed to him in the O.T. except a few prophecy still to come. so you still believe Jesus sacrifice was not enough and that we need the old priesthood again so once per year they will sprinkle blood on the Mercy Seat sitting on top of the Ark of the Covenant that Holds the ten Commandments? the only laws that remain are the ten commandments that are the covenant and anything else Jesus asked of us. scripture is clear. its the lase time I discuss this with you.
I agree that some laws can't currently be followed, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't follow the laws that we can currently follow. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so Jesus proceeded to fulfill the law throughout the rest of Matthew 5 by correcting what the people had heard bing said and by teasing how to correctly obey it at it was originally intended. The Torah teaches us how to point to Christ and we should live in a way that points to him by following his example of obedience to it rather than a way that points away from him. For example, if you believe that Jesus is holy, then the way to point to him is by follow his example of obeying God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy. If you believe that Jesus is compassionate, then you should be compassionate in accordance with the example that he set for us to follow, and so forth. The purpose of being a Christian is to live in a way that points towards Christ. The only way that we should cease to follow one of the 613 laws would be if it ceased to teach us something true about who Christ is, but Christ is eternal, such as we should only cease to follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy if He were to cease to be holy. The point of being a Christian is to be like Christ and all of Torah teaches us how to do that.
I said nothing about believing that Jesus' sacrifice not being enough. The reason why God commanded the Torah was not in order to teach us how to live in a way that shows that Christ is not enough. Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that come from the mouth of God, not that we should only live by the Ten Commandments. In James 2:1-11, it criticizes them for committing the sin of favoritism, which is not one of the Ten Commandments, and there are many other things spoken about in the NT that are not one of the Ten Commandments, such as those things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Romans 1:29-31, and Galatians 5:19-21, as well as the greatest two commandments. Moreover, the reason why the commandments to love God and our neighbor are the greatest two commandments is that they are inclusive of all of the other commandments, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that Jesus taught us to obey the greatest two commandment is also the position that Jesus taught us to obey the rest of the commandments that hang on them.
What is absurd is your refusal to accept that Christians are subject to a new covenant.
Good luck obeying all 613. You cannot. The temple no longer exists. You are required to offer animal sacrifices. That must go over well with your neighbours. Have you burned a red heifer and used the ashes as prescribed? You will have to emigrate to Israel. You will fit in well there.
This is what God said to the Galatians and it still applies today. At the risk of repeating myself,
"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God." Galatians 2:19. What laws apply to dead people?
But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6.
"All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3: 1-12
When you follow the law, you are not living by faith. That means that you are not pleasing God.
"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:23-25
The law does not save us and neither does it make us righteous. "Whoever keeps the whole law, but stumbles at just one point, is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14
Or do you deny that Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
He's just being antagonistic. You KNOW he doesn't follow the full 613 laws. He's just posting to try to get a rise out of people. I can tell because he posted two replies to my one post to try to make me react.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
He's self-condemned - that means he has passed judgment on himself through his own stubborn posts and refusal to repent. So really, he's not doing himself any favors continuing in this sin.
He's just being antagonistic. You KNOW he doesn't follow the full 613 laws. He's just posting to try to get a rise out of people. I can tell because he posted two replies to my one post to try to make me react.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
He's self-condemned - that means he has passed judgment on himself through his own stubborn posts and refusal to repent. So really, he's not doing himself any favors continuing in this sin.
Yes. Does anyone know any Messianic Jews on CC who we could ask to reply/witness to Soy?
Every kind of person has already replied and witnessed to Soy. FOR YEARS. Now it's up to him to repent.
Unhelpful. What Messianic Jew on CC has witnessed to Soy and in what RECENT post?
sorry but when you constantly, mention the 613 that says clearly Christ sacrifice was in vain.
why do you continue to do so? can you stop mentioning the 613 and instead teach what is necessary for Christians?
when people see 613 you lose them completely and you have a big label on your head : legalism.
but I agree the "" Laws"" or concepts than can be followed can be and will be in the future but they were not clearly enumerated for the new Millenium Kingdom. Things have changed and will change again. more the 1/2 of the laws in the Torah CANNOT be followed and if you want to get your message across and use the 613, no one will listen. and with good reason.
than its worse than I thought, years? so there is nothing I can do for him then, well we tried its his choice ill leave him be then as God and Jesus instructs to do, thanks for mentioning it.Every kind of person has already replied and witnessed to Soy. FOR YEARS. Now it's up to him to repent.
the pharisees crime was also they added to the laws and twisted the meaning and ruled severely without mercy, they were and still are condemned.