Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification

[ATG]

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

John 6:26-29

'Belief 'is the one work God accepts onto salvation!

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

​

........​

Mar 10:17
Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. Things things have I kept from my youth,

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Belief is what God accepts unto salvation. Works are what God accepts unto justification.

Faith is the beginning of salvation, not the end.

One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

 

[ATG]

Or have completely forgotten it......One is in a BAD spot if they think they can override/overwork HIS GRACE.

We are in a deluded place if we think we can override evil works with God's grace.

Rom 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Works are overworked without grace, and grace is overworked with evil doing.

 

[ATG]

In the Revelation it is said that Though Alone is Holy, which means that our God in His Glorified Human is the only holy.

Jesus was holy as a man on earth. There have been many holy men of God also.

But only by Jesus Christ can we all be holy men and women of God:

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

So, similarly with the merit, and all good. Men can indeed do good, but they need to understand that without the Lord they cannot do anything. For it is said: "without Me you cannot do anything".

Any man can do a good work, but only through Jesus can we do good.

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

In that regard, a man indeed acquires the faith on his own, and yet attributes it to the Lord (when it is the genuine, and not some learned traditional fake doctrinal of some kind), and the good of charity especially, for it is the Lord's Own.

The faith that saves and justifies with God is not our own, but is the gift of God to do good through Him.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, that any man should boast of.

We can't boast of our good works through Jesus Christ, because both the repentance and faith to do good, are from God, not from ourselves.

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Genez]

Mar 10:17
Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. Things things have I kept from my youth,

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Belief is what God accepts unto salvation. Works are what God accepts unto justification.

Faith is the beginning of salvation, not the end.

One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Job 1:9-10

​

‘Does Job fear God for nothing?’ Satan replied. ‘Have you not put a hedge around him ​

and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so ​

that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. ​

Satan was accusing Job before the Lord, saying that Job only follows Him because of the protection and blessings God gives him.
In other words? Satan was demanding an answer as to what Justified God's choice in saving Job.

Job was saved by grace through faith.
Yet, His works justifies us for having our good standing with God.

If Job failed in his testings?
He would still have been saved.
But, unjustified in expecting anything good from God.

Those who produce bad fruit by following false teaching does not grant us justification in God blessing our lives.

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment ​

on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and ill, and a number of you have ​

fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come ​

under such judgment. 1 Corinthians 11:29-31​

The faith that justified us is the faith concerning what we believed about Christ.
Initially, we were all justified by faith, justifying God saving us when we beleved.

But, if we seek and false teachings after we are saved?
Our justification by faith for living a blessed life in Christ will be lost.

That is why it says some will lose all rewards. Lost because of what we wrongly chose to believe after salvation.
Wrong belief = produces in believers works of wood, hay, and straw.
Yet? Even if a believer fails to walk in sound doctrine after believing in Christ.
He will still remain saved, because our initial foundation that was belief in Christ!

Our works will be based upon what he chose to believe
That chosen belief? = faith.

​

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus ​

Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, ​

hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to ​

light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. ​

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the ​

builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved – even though only as one escaping through ​

the flames.​

1 Corinthians 3:11-15

 

[Roger316]

We are justified by our works, and not by faith only. Else we are not justified by our works, because they are not of faith, but evil.

I agree with you here. The emphasis is on faith, though. For instance, I might give a glass of water to an elderly person, which is a good and right thing to do. But how is my faith involved? Maybe I'm not doing it out of faith, or maybe I am. It makes a difference. “Everything that is not from faith is sin.” — Romans 14:23 . Kindness is always good, but if I am living by faith, my faith informs my motivations. I am kind to others because God and Jesus were kind to me first. Because I love God, then I will love others. Because I love Jesus, I will do what he asks.

 

[amazingrace]

We are justified by our works, and not by faith only. Else we are not justified by our works, because they are not of faith, but evil.





Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

We that obey Jesus have His eternal salvation. If we disobey God, we do not have an unconditional security against being judged for our own evil deeds.

1 Peter{1:14}
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

If we are disobeying God, we are the unjustified children of disobedience, not the justified children of obedience.

Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


I preach James 2, as all the apostles, according to the Scriptures as written.



This is the honest version of OSAS: If works do not justify us, but faith only, then repentance and obedience has nothing to do with justification, except to believe only.

The more common form of OSAS calls upon some repentance and obedience, but not all. And yet, as with all OSAS unconditional security, their faith alone saves and justifies apart from their works.

Our faith in Christ does not justify us, if we are now disobeying God as the children of disobedience, and not obeying as the children of obedience.

All OSAS is the same with unconditional eternal security by faith alone. But the lukewarm version preaches some good works to show for it:

All their works become a fruit show among themselves, but not to be justified with God.

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.



Luther preached justification by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone.

He never preached justification apart from our works.

I believe he wrongly emphasized faith 'alone', because he was rightly fighting against Catholic works of merit to be saved by; Which like the Jews' traditions, are not the works of righteousness we do through Jesus Christ.



Eternal salvation doesn't dismiss any Scripture of God. It confirms the obedient are justified with God, not the disobedient.



It is with OSAS unconditional eternal security by faith alone without works.

It always is with James 2, that faith without works is dead, being alone.



Whether latter or former, if we are not doing good by our faith, then we are not justified with God by our faith alone.

Our faith is made dead by not doing the good we know to do:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
God saves us from doing evil, that we may do good and be resurrected unto life, not unto condemnation and shame by our works.

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

Heb 10:29
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

accepted with Him?

acts 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


thks

 

[ATG]

In other words? Satan was demanding an answer as to what Justified God's choice in saving Job.

I don't read anything in Job about God's 'choice for saving' anyone.

Job was saved by grace through faith.

Nor do I read anything about Job being saved by grace through faith.

Yet, His works justifies us for having our good standing with God.

Our good works justify us by our faith toward God.

If Job failed in his testings?
He would still have been saved.

I don't read anything in Job about Job failing, nor any outcome of failure.

But, unjustified in expecting anything good from God.

Mat 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Those who produce bad fruit by following false teaching does not grant us justification in God blessing our lives.

Those who do evil are not justified with Jesus Christ the righteous. Whether He is raining goodness upon the evil doer or not.

Jer 12:1
Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?

Psa 37:35
I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.

Like bodily exercise, we all profit or fail in this life by our works. But only them that live godly will profit beyond the grave.

1 Tim{4:8}
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

If we do evil in this life, we may or may not suffer for it, but we will suffer with all evil doers in the judgment of our works. If we do good, we may or may not profit in this life, but only them that do good through Jesus Christ will reap everlasting life.

The faith that justified us is the faith concerning what we believed about Christ.

The faith that justifies us with Jesus Christ, is believing Jesus Christ and His words. If we believe Jesus and His words from the heart, we do His will and abide forever.

Mar 3:33
And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust thereof: but he that is doing the will of God is abiding for ever.

Initially, we were all justified by faith, justifying God saving us when we beleved.

Where does Scripture say that God is justified in saving anyone. Scripture says God is justified in judging us by our works.

Psa 119:137
Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments.
Rev 16:5
And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

Rom 3:3
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

But, if we seek and false teachings after we are saved?
Our justification by faith for living a blessed life in Christ will be lost.

True. 1 Cor 3 shows us that if we minister transgressions to the believers, not only will they fall by their own transgressions, but also we will be destroyed with them for ministering unrighteousness:

1 Cor{3:16}
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Rev 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

False teachers, prophets, and apostles are judged as transgressors, for leading others into transgressions against God.

Mat 15:14
They be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

And so we should preach repentance and righteousness to all hearers, not sin.

Exo 20:18
And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

Yet? Even if a believer fails to walk in sound doctrine after believing in Christ.
He will still remain saved, because our initial foundation that was belief in Christ!

If we are doing unrighteousness with the world, we are condemned with the world. Our God judges us all by our works, whether good or evil. He does not justify one and condemn the other, that are doing the same thing:

Rom 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Our God has no respect to our faith, if we do evil. Our work is judged, not our faith alone.

 

[Genez]

I don't read anything in Job about God's 'choice for saving' anyone.

I don't know where you are at.

Satan was impugning both God and Job for God's choice in saving Job.
Satan was about to tell the Lord that Job was not worthy to be called a wonderful servant of God.

One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came ​

with them. The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”​

​

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”​

​

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth ​

like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” Job 1:6-8​

And, what did Satan do?

Satan was calling God a liar and was out to prove that Job was unworthy of the title the Lord was giving him.

“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him ​

and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so ​

that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand ​

and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” Job 1:9-11​

​

You really think Job was not saved?

I know that my redeemer lives,​

and that in the end he will stand on the earth.​

​

Job 19:25​

 

[ATG]

I agree with you here. The emphasis is on faith, though. For instance, I might give a glass of water to an elderly person, which is a good and right thing to do. But how is my faith involved? Maybe I'm not doing it out of faith, or maybe I am. It makes a difference. “Everything that is not from faith is sin.” — Romans 14:23 . Kindness is always good, but if I am living by faith, my faith informs my motivations. I am kind to others because God and Jesus were kind to me first. Because I love God, then I will love others. Because I love Jesus, I will do what he asks.

Exactly. And well said. Works alone do not justify.

The difference between the godly person in Christ Jesus, is not the manner of outward life alone, but is the manner of inward faith of heart.

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

The Buddhist can certainly live in a lawful and neighborly manner, but only them that believe on Jesus Christ can have our hearts circumcised by the Spirit, and washed clean in the blood of the Lamb.

Act 15:8
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

1Ti 1:5
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned;

While our neighbor can be rightly thankful for the good deed, it's God who sees the heart. Only the faith of Jesus Christ purifies the heart, and justifies the work with God.

Paul shows how works of the law alone cannot purify the heart. We must receive Jesus Christ to be justified with God in faith and works.

1 Thess{5:22}
Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also doeth it.

 

[Inquisitor]

The problem is not Paul teaching justification by faith, nor James teaching justification by works.

The problem is if we teach justification by faith alone, or justification by works alone.

If our works are with faith toward God, then our works are dead.

Rom 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

If our faith is without works of God, then our faith is dead.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

We are justified by our faith in Jesus Christ. We are justified by our works of faith through Jesus Christ.

If our faith is not doing good, our faith is no good to God nor man. If our works are not through Jesus Christ, our works are dead to God.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Whether your works are dead or not the only way to stand before God is in Christ and through Christ alone.

We have His righteousness not our own righteousness because there is no alternative means of righteousness.

We are holy, righteous, and blameless because Christ is holy, righteous, and blameless.

When it comes to salvation we are not talking about any profit we might gain through our works.

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

There is a difference between making a profit and gaining eternal life.

 

[Inquisitor]

Eternal salvation doesn't dismiss any Scripture of God. It confirms the obedient are justified with God, not the disobedient.

Interesting statement you made above.

"Eternal salvation doesn't dismiss any scripture of God."

You openly dismiss the Lord's commandment let alone the rest of the scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:37-40
If anyone considers himself a prophet or spiritual person, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is
the Lord’s command. But if anyone ignores this, he himself will be ignored. So, my brothers, be eager to prophesy,
and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything must be done in a proper and orderly manner.

Paul is not writing a letter to the Corinthians that would be obsolete in a few years!

Christianity is powered from start to finish by the Holy Spirit and the activity of the Holy Spirit never changed.

But the church changed.

"Eternal salvation doesn't dismiss any scripture of God."

The New Testament is riddled with miracles and the power of the Holy Spirit.

You also know the Holy Spirit was also performing miracles throughout the Old Testament.

So what changed and when did the Lord become mute?

When did the church switch from the leadership of the Holy Spirit and become controlled by the clergy?

I will tell you what changed.

The traditional church increasingly pursued wealth, power, and dismissed the activity of the Holy Spirit.

They even distorted the scripture with their reading (interpretation) of the New Testament.

Acts 20:29-30
I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your
own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.

In your version of Christianity there will be no miracles, no healing, no divine knowledge, no divine wisdom, no divine input.

No guidance of the Holy Spirit at all.

Your church is not led by the Holy Spirit and never was and that is the truth.

The Orthodox Church split from the Catholic Church (the traditional church) in the 11th century.

The Reformers split from the Catholic Church in the 16th century.

The Reformers only knew the structure of the traditional church in the 16th century.

That is the church that the Reformers adopted a dead church, indulgences, inquisitions, warfare. A church operated by
a very corrupt clergy. The Protestants diverged from the Reformers and ran with the same empty shell of a church.

Acts 20:29-30
I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your
own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.

The traditional church after the apostolic age became extremely corrupt.

Because of this you are unable to obey the Lord's commandment.

Do you believe that the church in the 11th century or the 16th century was the same, as the church in the first century?

 

[ATG]

Whether your works are dead or not the only way to stand before God is in Christ and through Christ alone.

The only way to stand justified before God is through works of faith alone.

The only way to stand condemned before God is through evil works.

We have His righteousness not our own righteousness because there is no alternative means of righteousness.

We have His righteousness, if we are doing His righteousness of faith.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

We have our own righteousness, if we are doing our own righteousness without faith.

Tit 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

We have unrighteousness, if we are doing unrighteousness.

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If we have His faith, we are doing His righteousness. If we are doing unrighteousness, our faith is dead to God.

No man can be transgressing God's will and pleasing God through faith.

We are holy, righteous, and blameless because Christ is holy, righteous, and blameless.

The world is not holy because Jesus is holy.

If we repent and have Jesus Christ, we are holy, righteous, blameless, and without sin as He is.

If we have sin and doing unrighteousness, we have not Jesus Christ.

We are saved from our sin and transgressions, not from unbelief alone.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

When it comes to salvation we are not talking about any profit we might gain through our works.

True. Profit in this life is for any successful works. Profit in the resurrection is only for them doing God's will through Jesus Christ;

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Tim{4:8}
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

There is a difference between making a profit and gaining eternal life.

True. There's a difference between man's sinful religion of transgressing less than before. Sinners' religions can be profitable in this life, rather than riotous living and ungodly manners.

Only living the pure religion of Jesus Christ is profitable in the resurrection of the dead unto life.

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

3Jo 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

God desires both for His people, but only prosperity in the next life is promised to them that live godly in Christ Jesus.

 

[ATG]

Indeed, there is no merit for both and charity, and yet both are necessary.

That man cannot do good that is good from himself, the Lord also teaches in John:

A man cannot take anything unless it be given Him from heaven (3:27).

True, good point. Doing good works is necessary for faith to justify the man, but doing good works alone justifies no man.

Sinners without Christ can certainly do good deeds, but only those with Jesus Christ are doing good in this life, and the life to come:

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

1 Tim{4:8}
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

Man's own works and religions are like bodily exercise, that profits in this life, but has no profit in the resurrection, unless we are walking and running godly with Jesus.

 

[ATG]

Thank you for the clarification — I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it. Honestly, I wasn’t aware that there’s a movement within the OSAS camp that treats ‘faith alone’ in such a strict way that any works are excluded from justifying the person. I didn’t realize that was an actual position people were promoting. Your explanation helped me understand the context much better.

Yes. You're correct, and I've been ignorant of the beginning of Luther's faith 'alone', that is not alone...Luther separate having faith 'alone' toward God from the 'meritorious' works of the Catholic church. He did not separate having faith from our works for God: Faith that is alone.

'Modern' OSAS faith-alone justification, is being separated from any works at all, whether good or evil. All works are denounced as 'meritorious' and therefore unjustifying.

You raise an interesting question about evil, but I will leave that for another time.

Let's put it this way: Even as all the law hangs on keeping the great commandments of loving God and our neighbor. So also all the gospel hangs on doing good and not evil.

If we preach loving God without loving our neighbor, we preach transgression of God's commandments.

1Jo 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

If we preach having faith without doing righteousness, we preach unrighteousness of God's faith.

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is not doing righteousness is not of God, neither he that is not loving his brother.

Any gospel that does not preach doing the righteousness of God, is not preaching the faith of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
'Modern' faith alone righteousness apart from doing righteousness, is man's own faith alone, not Jesus Christ's faith toward God.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[ATG]

Interesting statement you made above.

"Eternal salvation doesn't dismiss any scripture of God."

You openly dismiss the Lord's commandment let alone the rest of the scripture.

You're missing the point. I only preach words of Scripture, not my own ideas about them.

I preach eternal salvation, not eternal security.

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Jesus' salvation is only for us that obey Him. Not for those that disobey Him.

If we are disobeying the Son, His eternal salvation is not for us.

Christianity is powered from start to finish by the Holy Spirit and the activity of the Holy Spirit never changed.

True. To make us obedient to the Son and the Father, who were disobedient before receiving Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but now ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

1 Peter{1:14}
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

But the church changed.

Not all:

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

Rom 9:29
And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
God still has His people obedient to him by the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The New Testament is riddled with miracles and the power of the Holy Spirit.

You also know the Holy Spirit was also performing miracles throughout the Old Testament.

So what changed and when did the Lord become mute?

Jhn 20:27
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Miracles are not the proof of God's favor and blessing upon His people, but rather obedience is the proof of God with His people.

Mat 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Tit 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When did the church switch from the leadership of the Holy Spirit and become controlled by the clergy?

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Disobedience to the Scriptures leads to dishonoring the Spirit and following after sinful leaders:

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Mat 15:14
They be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Acts 20:29-30
I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your
own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.

In your version of Christianity there will be no miracles, no healing,

Mat 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rev 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

no divine knowledge, no divine wisdom, no divine input.

Job 28:28
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Pro 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

We don't need more divine revelators, but faithful obedience to the Holy Scriptures.

2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

No guidance of the Holy Spirit at all.

If we are keeping the commandments of God by faith in Jesus Christ, we are following after the Spirit of grace, not the spirit of error.

Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Your church is not led by the Holy Spirit and never was and that is the truth.

1Jo 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Do you believe that the church in the 11th century or the 16th century was the same, as the church in the first century?

We know that the church built by Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Hebrews{13:8}
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[ATG]

I disagree. Yet i am waiting for one to tell me of the works they do God accept. Those keep saying :


Only two options are made: either justification by faith alone without works, Or salvation by works alone.

The one option consistently excluded is that of Scripture: Salvation by faith with works, and justification by works of faith.


Tell me which work you do.

I don't see you being part of the argument, so we'll let the rest go.

God only justifies works of faith in His Son. I do works of faith in Jesus.

 

[ATG]

Indeed: "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

An antichrist riding a whited horse coming out to save peoples' day, whose day is already saved by Jesus Christ.

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[ATG]

I don't know where you are at.

Satan was impugning both God and Job for God's choice in saving Job.

It's simple. You keep talking about God's 'choice for saving Job', and I don't read anything about it.

If you mean saving his life, but not his household and health, then we only know that God chose not to let Satan take Job's life.

Other than that we have the testimony of God, that Job was an upright and righteous man with the Lord. We also know he remained upright and righteous through all his calamities. Even when his friends turned against him, and demanded he confess doing evil for having such sufferings.

Satan was calling God a liar and was out to prove that Job was unworthy of the title the Lord was giving him.

This is closer to the Scriptures in Job. However, the test is not about being unworthy of the testimony of Scripture for Job, but rather if he would keep the testimony that he rightly had.

You really think Job was not saved?

I know that my redeemer lives,​

and that in the end he will stand on the earth.​

​

Job 19:25​

Job's soul being saved is not the subject. We know Job was upright and righteous and believed God. The test was for Job to keep himself upright with the Lord, and not do evil.

Job 2:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

His life was saved, and his health and household restored twofold. And so any effort to translate a person's belief about NT salvation to the book of Job, is out of place.

We can teach prophecy of the Lord's return from the Scripture you given.

The LORD was allowing Job to be tested through much suffering, and ready to bless him double for retaining his integrity. He also taught wisdom to Job: While we ought be blessed in this life by upright living, there is no guarantee in a world of evil. Therefore, keeping faith is all that we can promise in this life:

2Ti 4:7
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

 

[Genez]

It's simple. You keep talking about God's 'choice for saving Job', and I don't read anything about it.

If you mean saving his life, but not his household and health, then we only know that God chose not to let Satan take Job's life.

Other than that we have the testimony of God, that Job was an upright and righteous man with the Lord. We also know he remained upright and righteous through all his calamities. Even when his friends turned against him, and demanded he confess doing evil for having such sufferings.


This is closer to the Scriptures in Job. However, the test is not about being unworthy of the testimony of Scripture for Job, but rather if he would keep the testimony that he rightly had.


Job's soul being saved is not the subject. We know Job was upright and righteous and believed God. The test was for Job to keep himself upright with the Lord, and not do evil.

Job 2:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

His life was saved, and his health and household restored twofold. And so any effort to translate a person's belief about NT salvation to the book of Job, is out of place.

We can teach prophecy of the Lord's return from the Scripture you given.

The LORD was allowing Job to be tested through much suffering, and ready to bless him double for retaining his integrity. He also taught wisdom to Job: While we ought be blessed in this life by upright living, there is no guarantee in a world of evil. Therefore, keeping faith is all that we can promise in this life:

2Ti 4:7
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Very good..... Nice boy.
You know your schtick very well....

Keep blocking em!

 

[Inquisitor]

We don't need more divine revelators, but faithful obedience to the Holy Scriptures.

The scripture cannot save you.

You cannot be obedient to the scripture because you must be led by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit
a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit,
to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing
between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these
are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

That is one part of the spiritual life.

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God is not in words, but in power.