Calvinism is Gospel !

[Cameron143]

What are deeds

Hell is a reflection of God's mercy. The other side of the coin is that all unbelievers are dead in trespass and sin. Would you have a dead body in your home? Weekend at Bernies was funny, but that's all. God will not have the dead in His home either. .

Hell is not a reflection of God's mercy; it is a demonstration of His wrath.

 

[IS]

There is no salvation plan for Satan.

Yes, and Hebrews 6 mentions a similar fate for the apostate. When I was introduced to a potential "son-in-law," I asked him if he was a man of faith. He responded, "I believe G-d exists." After a pause and no response, I asked, "What does that mean? Even Satan believes G-d exists.
Dinner was over.

 

[IS]

I recommend this series to anybody wanting to know about some of the most pivotal controversies and debates in church history or the theology of Calvinism. The education is worthwhile, especially in consideration of those that dedicated their lives to apostolic doctrine and were even martyred. Truly, some of the giants of theology. Stand on their shoulders and survey the historical church landscape.

Amazing Grace (1 of 3) The History and Theology of Calvinism

 

[GWH]

There are only a handful of soteriological camps that every church, if consistent, falls into. In other words, 40+k denominations can be broken down in the schools of thought: Arianism, Pelagianism (semi-), Arminianism, Calvinism, and Universalism.

Guess which one is Eglatarian and flys rainbow flags?

Those who do not realize that deviant sex is abnormal and either willful sin or mental illness,
both of which need to be cured rather than celebrated are bordering on heresy that damns per Paul.

Ditto re those that fly the tulip flag.

 

[GWH]

Burning bushes. Red sea parting. Pillars of cloud. The scape goat. Talking donkeys. PHYSICAL appearances.

Do you think God,who IS Jesus Christ made sure they never heard of Him?

I don't think so. You have the privilege and opportunity to spread His Name. He WILL, if you don't.

I explained how God made sure that people who never heard of Jesus or the OT could discern sufficiently from general revelation how to be saved (below), but your post offered no explanation. IOW, creation is the universal "physical appearance".

Paul's inspired special revelation affirmed general revelation, which was the means/basis of salvation for most of humanity for most of history until the Bible became more available in western societies. In my experience I have been the only one who has asked the obvious question “What is God's requirement for salvation (GRFS) for those who have never heard of Jesus (or Moses)?” (which includes everyone living B.C. (or apart from Canaan) and millions of people who have lived A.D.)

If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.

General revelation includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture, perhaps beginning with the Golden Rule (Matt. 7:12).

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ suffered for sin, ALL sin.

Why was hell/Lake of Fire created?.........Not for sin. But for EVIL. I will, I will, I will, I will and I will......Be like you.

And we see it in the end judgement...

Matt 7
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you;

rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Does God Love them in hell suffering for their sins ?

 

[brightfame52]

God is still love no matter what. Greek, as you no doubt know, has three words for love. That makes it more difficult for English speakers. God's love, again as you probably know, is unconditional, "agape" love.

Does God love these ? Matt 25:41 Yes or No

 

[brightfame52]

I explained how God made sure that people who never heard of Jesus or the OT could discern sufficiently from general revelation how to be saved (below), but your post offered no explanation. IOW, creation is the universal "physical appearance".

Paul's inspired special revelation affirmed general revelation, which was the means/basis of salvation for most of humanity for most of history until the Bible became more available in western societies. In my experience I have been the only one who has asked the obvious question “What is God's requirement for salvation (GRFS) for those who have never heard of Jesus (or Moses)?” (which includes everyone living B.C. (or apart from Canaan) and millions of people who have lived A.D.)

If God loves the world (John 3:16) and wants everyone to be saved (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), then He must provide an opportunity. God’s just judgment is illustrated by Jesus in the Parable of the Talents (Matt. 25:14-29), which indicates that God will judge souls on the basis of the truth (Word = Christ per John 1:1f.) they have received.

General revelation includes meditating on the natural world or God’s supernatural work and moral conscience. Paul said men are without excuse, both because God’s eternal power and divine nature (love) are manifested by creation (Rom. 1:20), and because a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (Col. 1:23, Rom. 10:13-18, Gal. 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (Rom. 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture, perhaps beginning with the Golden Rule (Matt. 7:12).

"You are preaching a gospel of nature that completely bypasses the cross of Jesus Christ. Creation is a universal declaration of God's power, but it is not a universal declaration of the Gospel.

In Romans 1:20, Paul explicitly states that general revelation leaves men without excuse—it condemns them, it does not save them. Conscience shows man his guilt, but it cannot reveal a Legal Surety who paid his debt.

You ask what God's requirement is for those who never heard? The requirement is the same for all: perfect legal satisfaction. No one has ever been saved by meditating on nature or following the Golden Rule. Salvation is exclusively found in Solus Christus through the Covenant of Grace.

Romans 10:14 completely demolishes your theory: 'How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?' God's elect are never saved by a vague 'proto-gospel' in the clouds; they are saved because they were chosen in Christ before the world began, legally redeemed at the cross from all their iniquities, and are infallibly quickened by the Holy Spirit in time."

 

[GWH]

"You are preaching a gospel of nature that completely bypasses the cross of Jesus Christ. Creation is a universal declaration of God's power, but it is not a universal declaration of the Gospel.

In Romans 1:20, Paul explicitly states that general revelation leaves men without excuse—it condemns them, it does not save them. Conscience shows man his guilt, but it cannot reveal a Legal Surety who paid his debt.

You ask what God's requirement is for those who never heard? The requirement is the same for all: perfect legal satisfaction. No one has ever been saved by meditating on nature or following the Golden Rule. Salvation is exclusively found in Solus Christus through the Covenant of Grace.

Romans 10:14 completely demolishes your theory: 'How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?' God's elect are never saved by a vague 'proto-gospel' in the clouds; they are saved because they were chosen in Christ before the world began, legally redeemed at the cross from all their iniquities, and are infallibly quickened by the Holy Spirit in time."

The only way sinners could be without excuse per Rom. 1:20 would be if creation/general revelation were sufficient for them to believe and be saved, but they rejected it.

This is completely confirmed by Rom. 10:14-20, but proof-texting is your gift/curse (Gal. 1:6-9).

 

[Journey_man]

This, is like picking up an object and wondering who it belongs to. You look around to see if someone dropped it and see no one. You look at it again and decide that it has no use you can see, so, putting it back on the ground, you walk away while dusting off your hands

You may have misunderstood what I meant by "the cross is a mystery". I meant, God's choice to save certain individuals is not based on any foreseen faith, goodness, or choice in the believer. It flows solely from His good pleasure and unmerited mercy.
The Bible declares that all humans are fallen, spiritually dead, and equally deserving of judgment due to sin. Therefore, when God passes by an unbeliever, He is giving them justice; when He saves a believer, He is giving them mercy.
There's a difference between what God has revealed (His moral law and commands) and His secret counsel (the decree of election). The exact rationale for why He targets this individual instead of that individual belongs to His hidden wisdom.

As the Apostle Paul writes in Romans 9:14-20, when faced with the question of fairness regarding why God has mercy on some and hardens others, human objections are silenced by God’s absolute freedom as Creator. Believers look at their salvation not with an explanation of why they are superior, but with astonishment that grace was given to them at all.

 

[Journey_man]

Let us examine this claim to see if it comports with what the scriptures say.
The author of Hebrews tells us this about the NEW COVENANT:

13 By speaking of a new covenant, He (God, speaking by the prophet Jeremiah) has made the first one
(i.e., the Mosaic covenant) OBSOLETE; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
(Hebrews 8:13)
The word OBSOLETE is from the Greek word παλαιόω which means:
to declare a thing to be old and so about to be abrogated: Hebrews 8:13
This shows that when Christ formed the NEW COVENANT in His blood the Old Mosaic covenant of the Law was
no longer in effect but was superseded and replaced. Not only that but the last traces of the Old Covenant was already disappearing when the book of Hebrews was written. This proved to be true historically, since in a relatively short time the Romans destroyed the temple which ended both the sacrificial system and the Aaronic priesthood.
There is simply no scriptural basis for your claim that The OT Saints were under the same covenant of grace as the rest of us throughout human history. There has only ever been one way of salvation for Gods elect.
God made a number of covenants - some with mankind as a whole, others with a segment of humanity such as the Jewish people. Each of these covenants came with their own requirements and benefits.

The New Covenant was superior to all inasmuch as the Lamb's offering of Himself is sufficient for anyone and everyone who is willing to REPENT of their SINS and entrust themselves to Christ to save them.

There is only one fundamental way of salvation by grace through faith, called the Covenant of Grace, which spans both the Old and New Testaments.

When Hebrews 8:13 says the old covenant is obsolete, it means the Mosaic/Sinai administration (the temporary national arrangement, temple rituals, and animal sacrifices), not the entire Old Testament or the Abrahamic promise.

The Lord Jesus fulfilled all the shadows, types, and ceremonial requirements of the Mosaic law through His death on the cross, naturally bringing that specific administrative era to an end.
The Levitical priesthood, physical temple, blood sacrifices, and national Israel-only boundaries are fully obsolete and replaced by Christ’s eternal priesthood and the global church.

The moral law (such as the Ten Commandments) continues to reflect God’s unchanging character and guide Christian living, though it is now applied through the Spirit under "better promises" written on the heart rather than stones.
The passing of the Mosaic administration, did not change God’s plan of salvation.

 

[GWH]

There is only one fundamental way of salvation by grace through faith, called the Covenant of Grace, which spans both the Old and New Testaments.

When Hebrews 8:13 says the old covenant is obsolete, it means the Mosaic/Sinai administration (the temporary national arrangement, temple rituals, and animal sacrifices), not the entire Old Testament or the Abrahamic promise.

The Lord Jesus fulfilled all the shadows, types, and ceremonial requirements of the Mosaic law through His death on the cross, naturally bringing that specific administrative era to an end.
The Levitical priesthood, physical temple, blood sacrifices, and national Israel-only boundaries are fully obsolete and replaced by Christ’s eternal priesthood and the global church.

The moral law (such as the Ten Commandments) continues to reflect God’s unchanging character and guide Christian living, though it is now applied through the Spirit under "better promises" written on the heart rather than stones.
The passing of the Mosaic administration, did not change God’s plan of salvation.

Yes, God's condition/requirement for salvation (GRFS) has always been faith in Him as Lord, whether revealed via creation and conscience, via the OT or fully via the NT Gospel of God's HS indwelling Christians.

 

[Journey_man]

The Law was the means of grace to the chosen people of G-d. Consider Romans 2, rather than the written law, the gentile heart acts as judge, even excusing them of any wrongdoing or justifying their unrighteousness. It doesn't mean what some think, why bother with the law at all, just follow their heart. That's the way those verses are often conveyed.

I asked questions about Hebrews 8:13 because, likewise, some use that verse for emphasis of replacement theology. There is only one covenant tree that expands the covenantal divides.

This goes into total depravity or inability. I agree w/ you @Journey_man in that Hebrews 11, the hall of faith, lists the faithful remnant. The ordo salutis is the same from cover to cover; soteriology is unchanged, and the same G-d is immutable.

I'm not sure if I understood what you meant by stating, that "The Law was the means of grace to the chosen people of G-d.

I don't see how the law in Romans 2 can be viewed as a means of grace or a way to earn salvation. Instead, I understand Romans 2 as setting forth the unyielding standard of the covenant of works, using the law to expose human sin, bring universal condemnation, and silence all self-righteous boasting.

Passages like Romans 2:6–13 describe what strict justice requires—lifelong, uninterrupted, and perfect obedience. The law acts like a mirror to show people their moral filth and complete inability to save themselves. By proving that no one naturally does good or can be justified by works (Romans 3:20), the law drives helpless sinners away from themselves and toward the grace found only in Jesus Christ.

 

[Mem]

Ps 145:17
The LORD is righteous in all His ways and kind in all His deeds. A root definition of "kind" is to bow (the neck as to an equal).
God is a Gentleman that calls all men to return to His image in which He created them, while honoring the will of His creation made in that image. If they don't 'recognize' His wisdom and raise themselves above Him, it's no wonder that their fall would be so great.

 

[Journey_man]

Yes, God's condition/requirement for salvation (GRFS) has always been faith in Him as Lord, whether revealed via creation and conscience, via the OT or fully via the NT Gospel of God's HS indwelling Christians.

I have never found any scriptures to support the idea that God sets conditions or requirements for salvation.

God does not set any human condition or pre-requisites that a person must independently fulfill to earn or initiate salvation. Instead, salvation is completely monergistic—meaning it is entirely the work of God from beginning to end.

God’s choice of the elect is completely unconditional and based solely on His own sovereign grace and good pleasure, not on any foreseen faith, goodness, or human action. Because of total depravity, humans are spiritually dead and unable to choose God or meet any standard of righteousness on their own.
While faith and repentance are strictly required to experience justification, these responses are not human conditions voted from a neutral will.

God first regenerates (gives new life to) the sinner through an inward, irresistible act of the Holy Spirit, which logically and causally produces the gifts of faith and repentance.

Effectual calling and regeneration precede human conversion (faith and repentance). Faith is the vital instrument through which a believer receives Christ's imputed righteousness, but God provides both the status of justification and the faith to receive it.

 

[Vucesa]

You may have misunderstood what I meant by "the cross is a mystery". I meant, God's choice to save certain individuals is not based on any foreseen faith, goodness, or choice in the believer. It flows solely from His good pleasure and unmerited mercy.
The Bible declares that all humans are fallen, spiritually dead, and equally deserving of judgment due to sin. Therefore, when God passes by an unbeliever, He is giving them justice; when He saves a believer, He is giving them mercy.
There's a difference between what God has revealed (His moral law and commands) and His secret counsel (the decree of election). The exact rationale for why He targets this individual instead of that individual belongs to His hidden wisdom.

As the Apostle Paul writes in Romans 9:14-20, when faced with the question of fairness regarding why God has mercy on some and hardens others, human objections are silenced by God’s absolute freedom as Creator. Believers look at their salvation not with an explanation of why they are superior, but with astonishment that grace was given to them at all.

Well said! I do not want fairness, I want grace. Fair lands me in the lake of fire, grace gets me to resurrection glory.

 

[Journey_man]

Ps 145:17
The LORD is righteous in all His ways and kind in all His deeds. A root definition of "kind" is to bow (the neck as to an equal).
God is a Gentleman that calls all men to return to His image in which He created them, while honoring the will of His creation made in that image. If they don't 'recognize' His wisdom and raise themselves above Him, it's no wonder that their fall would be so great.

The word "kind" means - Being gentle, friendly, helpful, and good to people. It doesn't mean to bow the neck as an equal.

God is never described as an equal in the Bible, He is outside of His creation. He is not a respecter of any person. This is why we bow our head when we pray, we are not His equal in any way.

 

[Gideon300]

Does God love these ? Matt 25:41 Yes or No

I've answered your question. If you are looking for a fight, try someone else.

 

[Roger316]

I have never found any scriptures to support the idea that God sets conditions or requirements for salvation.

There are several conditions for salvation. You listed a few of them yourself. We can divide humanity according to those who met the conditions and those who didn't. The key is found in the rationale you offered. Those who will be saved have not independently fulfilled those conditions.

God’s choice of His people is not merely “unconditional” in the sense of being detached from human merit; it is expressive—a creative act in which God reveals His character, His purposes, and His story. Election is God’s way of speaking Himself into history. He chooses not arbitrarily but artistically, forming a people who embody what He wants to say about His holiness, His mercy, His faithfulness, and His redemptive love. In this sense, election is not just a decision but a self‑disclosure: God elects in order to display who He is, and His chosen people become the canvas on which He paints His identity and His saving intentions for the world.

We both agree that God regenerates a person first, and that regeneration logically and causally produces faith and repentance. And while faith and repentance are indeed gifts of the Holy Spirit, they still function as conditions of salvation in the sense that anyone who lacks them is not presently being saved. Their role is not meritorious—nothing about them earns salvation—but they are necessary markers that identify those whom God is saving. In other words, faith and repentance are the visible, Spirit‑generated signs that distinguish the regenerate from the unregenerate; they do not contribute to salvation, but they unmistakably accompany it.

 

[GWH]

There are several conditions for salvation. You listed a few of them yourself. We can divide humanity according to those who met the conditions and those who didn't. The key is found in the rationale you offered. Those who will be saved have not independently fulfilled those conditions.

God’s choice of His people is not merely “unconditional” in the sense of being detached from human merit; it is expressive—a creative act in which God reveals His character, His purposes, and His story. Election is God’s way of speaking Himself into history. He chooses not arbitrarily but artistically, forming a people who embody what He wants to say about His holiness, His mercy, His faithfulness, and His redemptive love. In this sense, election is not just a decision but a self‑disclosure: God elects in order to display who He is, and His chosen people become the canvas on which He paints His identity and His saving intentions for the world.

We both agree that God regenerates a person first, and that regeneration logically and causally produces faith and repentance. And while faith and repentance are indeed gifts of the Holy Spirit, they still function as conditions of salvation in the sense that anyone who lacks them is not presently being saved. Their role is not meritorious—nothing about them earns salvation—but they are necessary markers that identify those whom God is saving. In other words, faith and repentance are the visible, Spirit‑generated signs that distinguish the regenerate from the unregenerate; they do not contribute to salvation, but they unmistakably accompany it.

Yes, but don't overlook the truth that the font of God's condition/IF is exercising His gift of faith to seek divine truth regarding salvation (Heb. 11:6, 2Thes. 2:10, 1Tim. 2:3-4).