The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1John 3:11). The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1John 4:20, Eph. 2:10).
The moment of being baptized by the HS/SB begins the process of becoming sanctified by the HS. Peter wrote that the sanctification of the Spirit is “unto obedience” (1Pet. 1:2), and Paul also wrote about faithful obedience (in Rom. 1:5). Following the act of faith (1John 3:23), believers will manifest obedience by acts of love (1John 4:19-21, John 13:35). There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/obeying (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
As Paul said in Rom. 1:17, “In the Gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that from faith to faith (KJV) or by faith from first to last (NIV), just as it is written, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’” The phrase “from faith to faith” may mean historically, as from the faith of Abraham to the faith of NT believers, or it could be meant chronologically, from initial saving faith thru persevering/sanctifying faith. The latter is implied in Phil. 2:13, “For it is God [the HS] who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.”
Paul wrote (in Phil. 1:6) of being confident “that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus”. He cited the work of the HS again in 1Cor. 6:11b, “You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” Note that this verse refers to water baptism and to baptism by the HS (1Cor. 12:13, “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”).
This is a good example.
A post on how to receive the Holy spirit, and not a single mention of the mandatory surrender, and the continually surrendered life.
But your saying even though a continually surrendered life isn't mentioned in your understanding, your really fulfilling it, " faith and faithing.?"
Yes, it should be obvious that sanctification and surrendered life are synonymous.
Scripture uses the term sanctification, so what justification do you have to carp?
However, I am always open to constructive criticism, so how would you like to amend the following creed?:
The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6) or “Love Jesus as Messiah and Lord” (John 8:42). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in these statements can be explained or elaborated as follows:
1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey (Phil. 3:12, 1John 1:8) His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).
Sanctification isn't the same as a surrendered life, Sanctification is being separated from , to.
Justification is being just like Christ.
The synonymous word for a surrendered life is Faith!
Justification, sanctification, surrendered life and saving faith are all essentially synonymous,
but please go ahead and propose your amended version of the creed for our consideration.
In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.Justification, sanctification, surrendered life and saving faith are all essentially synonymous,
but please go ahead and propose your amended version of the creed for our consideration.
In this thread, I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.
This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.
This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.
Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.
The salvation process.
1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.
2) Gate 1 or the altar.
A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.
3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.
A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.
4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.
A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.
5) The product.
A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.
Our consideration?
So it really is me against everyone else.
It's always felt like that, and is why I'm always pushing the surrendered life.
I think my salvation journey thread is what your asking for, I'll attempt to copy and paste it over, for you and yours to consider.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
— Matthew 21:43 (KJV)
Yes, CC is for discussion, not monologues. It should be us against ignorance.
No, I am not asking for you to c&p your other thread. In #442 I asked for you to amend the creed I proposed. Here is how I might do it:
The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6) or “Love Jesus as Messiah and Lord” (John 8:42). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in these statements can be explained or elaborated as follows:
1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey (Phil. 3:12, 1John 1:8) His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4). Such cooperation can be termed "the surrendered life".
6. This creed summarizes revelation of the NT Gospel/Truth (Matt. 26:13, John 14:6), which fulfilled the OT revelation (Matt. 5:17, John 19:30, Heb. 7:11-10:10) and culminates the search for salvation by souls who know only general revelation (Rom. 1:20, 2:14-16, Matt. 7:12). Seeking begins when souls love truth/repent of false beliefs (2Thes. 2:10&13, Matt. 4:17, 7:7), which is the Way to eternal life God wills, who is the Lord Jesus (Matt. 7:14, John 1:14, 4:24, 14:6). Lacking this love leads to believing lies and debauchery (Matt. 7:6, Rom. 1:18&25-26, 2Thes. 2:11-12).
Confusion may arise from the fact that Paul said there is only one baptism (Eph. 4:5), but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS (Matt. 3:11, John 1:26-33, Acts 1:5). Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are harmonized if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. (Most Bibles have a footnote for Mark 16:9-20 saying that the passage is not a reliable or well-attested part of the NT canon, so it is problematic to cite v.16 as requiring water baptism for salvation along with drinking poison or handling asps as signs of being saved.)The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1John 3:11). The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1John 4:20, Eph. 2:10).
The moment of being baptized by the HS/SB begins the process of becoming sanctified by the HS. Peter wrote that the sanctification of the Spirit is “unto obedience” (1Pet. 1:2), and Paul also wrote about faithful obedience (in Rom. 1:5). Following the act of faith (1John 3:23), believers will manifest obedience by acts of love (1John 4:19-21, John 13:35). There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/obeying (Eph. 2:8-10, 2Cor. 5:7), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
As Paul said in Rom. 1:17, “In the Gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that from faith to faith (KJV) or by faith from first to last (NIV), just as it is written, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’” The phrase “from faith to faith” may mean historically, as from the faith of Abraham to the faith of NT believers, or it could be meant chronologically, from initial saving faith thru persevering/sanctifying faith. The latter is implied in Phil. 2:13, “For it is God [the HS] who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.”
Paul wrote (in Phil. 1:6) of being confident “that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus”. He cited the work of the HS again in 1Cor. 6:11b, “You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” Note that this verse refers to water baptism and to baptism by the HS (1Cor. 12:13, “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”).
The relationship between Believers/Christians and God may be viewed as having three stages: conversion, spiritual growth or maturation (Eph. 4:13), and glorification (1Pet. 5:10) or immortality (1Cor. 15:53) in heaven. The kerygmatic prayer that is necessary in order for a sinner be saved and walk with God is confession (1John 1:9, Psa. 32:1-5). Because a convert’s commitment to Christ is in accordance with God’s perfect will (1Tim. 2:3-4), the moment of Spirit baptism fulfills the command to be filled with the Spirit (in Eph. 5:18), which means to cooperate fully with the love of God (Eph. 3:16-19).
The moment or stage of conversion may be described grammatically as occurring in the past: we were saved when we repented/received the baptism of the HS. From the moment of repentance onward begins the second stage of growth, discipleship (Acts 14:22) or sanctification (2Thes. 2:13), which is present progressive: it is the process of being saved now.
The sanctification stage has two phases: instability and maturity. A new convert does not achieve immediate perfection by remaining filled with the HS (Phil. 3:12). Instead, the combination of temptations, ignorance of GW and the old selfish nature results in immature saints committing post-conversion sins, at which time the are carnal or acting like unbelievers (1Cor. 3:1).
The phase of instability begins when the newly converted saint commits his/her first post-justification sin. As soon as new Christians realize they sinned, they should confess it (1John 1:9a) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (Gen. 3:7-8). Whenever a believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1John 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (Eph. 4:30, 5:10 & 18). This spiritual flip-flopping is bad, but failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding, which may be called prodigal if it continues very long (cf. Luke 15:11-32).
Unfortunately, some saints may not appreciate the process of spiritual growth or being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Rom. 12:2), perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. Guilt is like a warning light, and until we gain the wisdom to welcome God’s reproof, we will not feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves. Woe to the one who become so callous that no guilt is felt when wrong is done!
So GWH,
Am I understanding this group correctly?
They are saying The atonement of Christ does not cover the sins of the ENTIRE world, past,present, and future?
Yes.
Regarding the sanctification process, I would consider adding a statement in terms of surrendering somwhere,
but I see no significant problem with equating faith and belief, although perhaps it would be good to coin "faithing".
I've been trying to coin the words faithe, faithing, and faither for over 30 years with no success.
Those are the words the English language should have had for the translators to translate pisteuo, but they settled with believe, believer, and believing, and here we are, most of the called building their understanding on that mistranslation.
And they will protect that mistranslation with everything they have.
If believing was as good as surrender, we wouldn't be in this position.I see no problem with coining words as appropriate, so persevere, but I see no reason to view believing as bad
just because faithing is better. Both imply surrendering.
If believing was as good as surrender, we wouldn't be in this position.
Believing is only one of the 3parts of faith, taken on it own is error. Surrender taken on its own is truth.
And that one believing part of the faith process, it isn't believing Him, it's believing in that He will accept the surrendered.
Actually other than JESUSWell, it is impossible to say everything with one word.
Combining belief, faith, surrender, truth and process is better/more complete than any by itself.