How do preachers or teachers explain this?

[JohnDB]

Okay. Thanks. When I click on it I get a Facebook login page. You know, computers. Can't live with 'em; Can't live without 'em.

Yes, but you click "back" once and the video plays.

I dont want Facebook either.

But that's not a reason to not see the video.

 

[Roger316]

Yes, but you click "back" once and the video plays.

I dont want Facebook either.

But that's not a reason to not see the video.

Thanks.

 

[frederickdoc]

Tell me about what you noticed in video cause it Doesn't work for me

 

[JohnDB]

I'll explain briefly what I can because my wife is on her last bit at work and then I'm going to go get dinner. If I can't finish I'll come back later.

Ok...
ALL of the Patriarchs in Old Testament all got their brides around wells and water. Abraham had a thing with Lot over some grazing....but his real thing was with Abimalech and the sheep that got him a contract for the well. It was literally a bride price marriage contract after the Abimelech figured out Sarah was his wife.
Then there's the Abraham assistant finding the bride for Isaac at a well where she waters all his camels.

Then there's Jacob finding his bride needing help getting access to the water for her sheep at a well.

Then Moses hanging out until his soon to be bride is getting harassed by other shepherds and that's how he meets her....again at a well.

So we come to the time of Jesus.....

The Samaritans were not full blooded Jews. When the jews would take slaves they would not necessarily record the children from these slaves sired by Jews. Same with enslaved Jewish women.. their children aren't recorded in the Temple either. (No access to courts by women).
Samaria (northern 12 tribes) had been conquered by Assyrians, Babylonians, Medio/Persian, Greeks, and the melting pot of Romans.
However...many of the residents of Samaria wanted to worship in true Judaism fashion according to the Law...however they needed Torah Scrolls, priests, and etc to do this...But...they wee mixed blood. So the Jews sold the Samaritans deliberately altered Torah Scrolls (each costing over an average year's wages) which instead of saying "One place of worship" there's now two and Samaritans need to stay out of the Temple.
This led to civil war...literally.
The Samaritans tossed a dead body into the Temple during Passover week making a mess of atonement day. (Ritual purity wasn't happening) and everyone started Kung fu fighting..
The Romans stopped the fighting by killing everyone fighting. (Mixing blood with sacrifice)

So....
With that background....Jesus at Jacob's well meeting a woman and asking her for a drink of water.
Who is your husband?
Aka....who has your heart?
("It's not me" thinks Jesus..."yet")

Jesus, picking up a "Samaritan" bride who wants to worship but can't and is confused by everyone's lies and half truths...
She has given up on love completely because she is not married and living with a man....after 5 husbands....little wonder.
"You will never thirst again from this living water I have"

The layers upon layers of typology and symbolism are absolutely wonderful.

 

[JohnDB]

In each of these instances...
The "husband" and the wife TOGETHER accessing and getting the water....
(Isaac's case was different for sure)

And in each case in the Old Testament this water was buried or hidden....
Stored....possibly brackish.

But Jesus offers "living water"
Water that flows is living water....

Water is also a symbol for laws....some as loose as a guideline and others traditions that are strictly followed and others like the Torah....do them or die.

 

[frederickdoc]

The woman at the well story....
Jesus blatantly admits he is the Messiah.

But the symbolic representation of Moses, Jacob, and Isaac's wife all three....too much to ignore.

The 5 groups? Meh...not so hot for that concept. The samaritans wanted to worship but misprinted Torah scrolls wasn't gonna cut it.

The "Bride of Christ" reference is just too freaking much to pass up on. Sure, the woman is a angry lil troublemaker who cant stay married....but that is also used to complete the whole picture and typology.

Nobody can reproduce the miracle of scripture.....nobody!

I know the lady at the well her father worship God in The certain mountain place, Jesus told her basically Worship would be everywhere that includes where i am right Now!
get the picture ?

 

[frederickdoc]

The woman at the well story....
Jesus blatantly admits he is the Messiah.

But the symbolic representation of Moses, Jacob, and Isaac's wife all three....too much to ignore.

The 5 groups? Meh...not so hot for that concept. The samaritans wanted to worship but misprinted Torah scrolls wasn't gonna cut it.

The "Bride of Christ" reference is just too freaking much to pass up on. Sure, the woman is a angry lil troublemaker who cant stay married....but that is also used to complete the whole picture and typology.

Nobody can reproduce the miracle of scripture.....nobody!

The woman brought up a centuries-old theological dispute between Jews and Samaritans regarding the "correct" location to build temples and offer sacrifices:

• Samaritans insisted that Mount Gerizim was the sacred place chosen by God.
• Jews maintained that Jerusalem was the only rightful location for the temple.
• What Jesus Said

Jesus completely shifted the focus away from physical geography:

Woman, believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem... Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth..." — John 4:21-23 is this to be over looked also note the Samaritan lady was much wiser then the religious leaders notice the Samaritans were the first after the first to receive the Gospel of Jesus this was amending I'm two separated Nations that's why I mentioned the two sticks

 

[Godsgood]

In that case, if you are claiming private revelation from God, there is not much point in continuing discussing these matters with you, as we do not have the same basis for what we believe. I believe in the truth of God's word, the Bible. You believe in private revelations by God to you. I pray that you will come to know the truth of God's word.

If you say that God's revealing the truth of His Word to an individual is meaningless, then you are also saying that God's revelation of the truth of His Word to the Apostle Paul was meaningless.
Yet the Apostle Paul wrote many of the books of the New Testament, arguably more than any other apostle.
How, then, can you believe what Paul wrote?
After all, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed these truths to him personally.
GALATIANS 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I hope you will humble yourself before God so that the truth may be revealed to you.

 

[Godsgood]

The Lord Jesus, in His role as God the Father, performed wonders (literal miracles).
One example is the feeding of the multitudes (John 6) with five loaves of bread and two small fish.
Yet we know that the multitudes who ate and were satisfied became hungry again only a few hours later.
They needed food once more.

However, God's chosen ones, by sharing the truth, lead those who humble themselves and believe to know the one true God. This knowledge brings them to salvation and to eternal life.

Therefore, when comparing the wonders God performed for the multitudes with the work of God's chosen ones in leading people to the truth, the latter carries greater and everlasting significance, because it results not merely in temporary physical satisfaction but in eternal salvation.

Here is another example of how those chosen by the Lord Jesus will do greater works than He did.
The Lord Jesus raised the young girl from the dead (Matthew 9:23–25).
He also raised Lazarus, the brother of Mary Magdalene and Martha, from the dead (John 11:43–44).
Yet, although the Lord brought them back to life, the time eventually came when they died again.

However, those chosen by the Lord Jesus who proclaim the truth of God's Word bring a greater result.
Whoever believes and accepts the truth they proclaim will never experience the second death.
Instead, they will be with God and share in eternal life.
REVELATION 2:11
11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Therefore, when the two are compared, the works carried out by those chosen by God are indeed greater.
Truly, the Lord Jesus spoke the truth in John 14:12.
JOHN 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

TO GOD BE THE GLORY!

 

[DavidLamb]

If you say that God's revealing the truth of His Word to an individual is meaningless, then you are also saying that God's revelation of the truth of His Word to the Apostle Paul was meaningless.
Yet the Apostle Paul wrote many of the books of the New Testament, arguably more than any other apostle.
How, then, can you believe what Paul wrote?
After all, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed these truths to him personally.
GALATIANS 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I hope you will humble yourself before God so that the truth may be revealed to you.

That is completely different. What Paul wrote is part of God's word, Scripture, which was inspired, or "breathed out" by God Himself. All the human writers of Bible books, people like Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Matthew, John and, yes, Paul, wrote under God's inspiration. You were claiming (or, to be fair to you, it seemed to me that you were claiming) that God has revealed things to you privately, apart from the Bible. Are you now claiming the same inspiration as the human authors of the Bible?

 

[Dino246]

If you say that God's revealing the truth of His Word to an individual is meaningless, then you are also saying that God's revelation of the truth of His Word to the Apostle Paul was meaningless.
Yet the Apostle Paul wrote many of the books of the New Testament, arguably more than any other apostle.
How, then, can you believe what Paul wrote?
After all, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed these truths to him personally.
GALATIANS 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I hope you will humble yourself before God so that the truth may be revealed to you.

This is a perfect example of your misrepresentation.

DavidLamb did not say that private revelation is “meaningless” or anything like that.

You chose the word because you can make ip something critical about it, and about him. That is what children and narcissists do.

You pretend to want discussion so you can spread your false beliefs. You never ask to learn anything; you ask as a pretext to “share” your private “revelations”.

When you put private revelation above plain Scripture, you have rejected the most basic foundation on which this forum stands: that the Bible is the truth.

The sad truth is that you are deceived into thinking nobody here can teach you anything about the Bible, while you still have much to learn.

 

[Dino246]

I supported the equivalence with Scripture, so please support you disagreement the same way.

No, you did not. The passages you cited neither present nor support the idea that role, relationship, and person are the same thing, which is what you asserted. Instead, you commented on the passages with those ideas. You are inadvertently treating your ideas about Scripture as though they carry the weight of Scripture itself.

 

[JohnDB]

The woman brought up a centuries-old theological dispute between Jews and Samaritans regarding the "correct" location to build temples and offer sacrifices:

• Samaritans insisted that Mount Gerizim was the sacred place chosen by God.
• Jews maintained that Jerusalem was the only rightful location for the temple.
• What Jesus Said

Jesus completely shifted the focus away from physical geography:

Woman, believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem... Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth..." — John 4:21-23 is this to be over looked also note the Samaritan lady was much wiser then the religious leaders notice the Samaritans were the first after the first to receive the Gospel of Jesus this was amending I'm two separated Nations that's why I mentioned the two sticks

Samaritans did a LOT of things when Israel split into the Northern 10 tribes vx the southern 2(3) to keep people from going down to Jerusalem to worship. But the Jewish families in the North still went to Jerusalem to record the children and make sacrifices for them at the Temple. That's the whole reason why the Levites, encouraged by the Jews changed the text in the Torah to reflect Mt Gerazim as the place to worship. This was what started the civil war.

Now only the respectable families....the landowners and pillars of the communities were the Jews that the invaders took into captivity and exile into Assyria (Nineveh) and Babylon. The rest of the people they left behind (not worth taking) became the Samaritans....
Yes, Jewish but unrecorded and unrecordable in the Temple. These were "half breeds" and mixed race people....but that did not stop them from wanting to worship God faithfully and properly.
Ultimately the Jews were racist jerks.

But this Samaritan Woman....5X divorced...a failure in life and bloodline....she was specially chosen to be the first to start the Samaritan campaign. And symbolic of His bride the Church.

 

[GWH]

No, you did not. The passages you cited neither present nor support the idea that role, relationship, and person are the same thing, which is what you asserted. Instead, you commented on the passages with those ideas. You are inadvertently treating your ideas about Scripture as though they carry the weight of Scripture itself.

Well, I might say the same about you, so please explain your disagreement with my interpretation of specific Scriptures along with how you understand it, because I do not see why you have a problem with the terms "role, person and relationship" referring to essentially the same reality: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[Dino246]

Well, I might say the same about you, so please explain your disagreement with my interpretation of specific Scriptures along with how you understand it, because I do not see why you have a problem with the terms "role, person and relationship" referring to essentially the same reality: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I did already. The meanings of the words do not support equivocation among them. I don't need a scriptural argument against your assertion because your use of the words is self-defeating.

You're also moving the goalposts: you stated this: "role = relationship = personal". The "=" sign means "equal" as in "having the same meaning or function".

They don't.

Role: a function or part performed especially in a particular operation or process

Relationship: the way in which two or more things or people are connected : the state of being related or interrelated

Person: human, individual OR the personality of a human being : self

Source: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/


There's the rub: you can hold whatever idea you like about Scripture, but if the words you use don't conform to the biblical words and the meanings of the words don't conform to the biblical concepts, you don't have a biblically sound idea.

 

[Godsgood]

That is completely different. What Paul wrote is part of God's word, Scripture, which was inspired, or "breathed out" by God Himself. All the human writers of Bible books, people like Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Matthew, John and, yes, Paul, wrote under God's inspiration. You were claiming (or, to be fair to you, it seemed to me that you were claiming) that God has revealed things to you privately, apart from the Bible. Are you now claiming the same inspiration as the human authors of the Bible?

If you would humble yourself before God, you would find that God Himself is the one who will answer your question and give you understanding of everything.

 

[DavidLamb]

If you would humble yourself before God, you would find that God Himself is the one who will answer your question and give you understanding of everything.

I do rely on God to give me understanding of His word, and pray to Him to grant me increasing understanding. Also, contrary to what you so confidently state, I do humble myself before God. I know that I have nothing of which to boast. My salvation, and my food, clothing, home, health, and so on, are all gifts from Him.

As for being the one who will answer my question, my only question in the post to which you were replying was to you. It was: "Are you now claiming the same inspiration as the human authors of the Bible?" In your posts, you often ask me questions, presumably because you expect answers from me. So why, when I ask you a question, do you not answer it?

 

[GWH]

I did already. The meanings of the words do not support equivocation among them. I don't need a scriptural argument against your assertion because your use of the words is self-defeating.

You're also moving the goalposts: you stated this: "role = relationship = personal". The "=" sign means "equal" as in "having the same meaning or function".

They don't.

Role: a function or part performed especially in a particular operation or process

Relationship: the way in which two or more things or people are connected : the state of being related or interrelated

Person: human, individual OR the personality of a human being : self

Source: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/


There's the rub: you can hold whatever idea you like about Scripture, but if the words you use don't conform to the biblical words and the meanings of the words don't conform to the biblical concepts, you don't have a biblically sound idea.

Words that are deemed to be sufficiently synonymous typically have different nuances or shades of meaning,
which is how I understand the three words:

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are names indicating Personhood, which refers to relationship and how they function in that connection.

Here again is my explanation with Scriptural support:

A second common confusing issue is the doctrine of the Trinity. The OT Shema (Deut. 6:4) teaches that God is one, and the NT also affirms that there is one God (Eph. 4:6, 1Tim. 2:5). However, the NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).

The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (Matt. 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (John 3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (Rom. 4:11, 8:15, Phil. 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Heb. 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (John 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (Rom. 1:4, Gal. 2:20, 1Thes. 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (John 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (Acts 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (Rom. 8:4-26, 1Cor. 6:19, Eph. 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2Pet. 1:21, Jude 20).

Apparently, Christians failed to explain to Mohammed (c. 610) how God is able to relate to Himself and to creation as a Triunity, and so the prophet’s teaching stressed that there is one God and implied that the Christian gospel is false. It might have been helpful for him and others who stumble at NT doctrines to discern which aspect of the triune God is the subject of various biblical statements. These divine aspects or “persons” may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (Gen. 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1Tim. 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (Rom. 5:5). For example, 1John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Gal. 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Eph. 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (Rom. 5:8, Eph. 2:18).

We can denote these distinctions by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (Eph. 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (Matt. 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (Eph. 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Eph. 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father that through His Spirit of love Christ would dwell in believers’ hearts (also see 1Cor. 8:6).

How does your understanding differ from mine, and what is your Scriptural support?
Thanks.

 

[Dino246]

Words that are deemed to be sufficiently synonymous typically have different nuances or shades of meaning,
which is how I understand the three words:

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are names indicating Personhood, which refers to relationship and how they function in that connection.

Here again is my explanation with Scriptural support:

A second common confusing issue is the doctrine of the Trinity. The OT Shema (Deut. 6:4) teaches that God is one, and the NT also affirms that there is one God (Eph. 4:6, 1Tim. 2:5). However, the NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).

The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (Matt. 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (John 3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (Rom. 4:11, 8:15, Phil. 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Heb. 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (John 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (Rom. 1:4, Gal. 2:20, 1Thes. 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (John 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (Acts 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (Rom. 8:4-26, 1Cor. 6:19, Eph. 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2Pet. 1:21, Jude 20).

Apparently, Christians failed to explain to Mohammed (c. 610) how God is able to relate to Himself and to creation as a Triunity, and so the prophet’s teaching stressed that there is one God and implied that the Christian gospel is false. It might have been helpful for him and others who stumble at NT doctrines to discern which aspect of the triune God is the subject of various biblical statements. These divine aspects or “persons” may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (Gen. 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1Tim. 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (Rom. 5:5). For example, 1John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Gal. 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Eph. 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (Rom. 5:8, Eph. 2:18).

We can denote these distinctions by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (Eph. 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (Matt. 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (Eph. 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Eph. 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father that through His Spirit of love Christ would dwell in believers’ hearts (also see 1Cor. 8:6).

How does your understanding differ from mine, and what is your Scriptural support?
Thanks.

You are trying to respond to a linguistic question with a theological answer.

 

[GWH]

You are trying to respond to a linguistic question with a theological answer.

So? If you do not want to discuss my post, just say so.
Thanks.