More about Israel.

[Lifted_by_the_word]

There are some clues given in Revelations 11 to the time of the two witnesses.
John measures the temple with those that worship in it (who will die), but leaves out the court for the Gentiles (Romans) who will tread under foot the holy city for forty two months.
We are not given the names of the two witnesses, but they are referred to in Zechariah 4:14 "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."
The signs of Moses are given to the witnesses, so even at that late stage God gives the Jews the opportunity to repent and believe.
God is sentencing Jerusalem to death, and the law of Moses says; "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death;" (Deuteronomy 17:6).
We are also told that the place of the two witnesses in V.8 is Jerusalem, and Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.

Other signs are Zechariah being told that Zerubbabel will finish the house of the lord, and will hold a plummet which is a reference
to judgement through the hearing of the word.
Or Joshua standing before the stone with 7 eyes and will remove the iniquity of the land in one day.
Same with John who is told that he must Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

All of these and more point to the time of the Two Witnesses and the thing they have in common is that they're a remnant which God had set aside.Zerubbabel himself wont be doing those things,God was speaking symbolically of his remnant fulfilling that prophecy.Same with Joshua and John.

In Colossians 1 we are bring told who his Two Witnesses are.Water and blood.Or his word,the OT & NT.
By him all things consist and he brings us unto himself through the blood of his cross.In Zechariah God says "not by might,nor by power,but by my spirit."

Spirit,water,blood.

The spirit testifies of the Two Witnesses.All things consist through spirit,water,blood and by that,they testify of their creator.They glorify him.
The 2 men in revelation 11 is symbolic for not only the word of God,but also man and woman.We were created in the image of the Living Word.
The word became flesh.The word is in our dna,and we became flesh.
The 144,000/two witnesses are both men and women.

 

[Beekeeper]

Other signs are Zechariah being told that Zerubbabel will finish the house of the lord, and will hold a plummet which is a reference
to judgement through the hearing of the word.
Or Joshua standing before the stone with 7 eyes and will remove the iniquity of the land in one day.
Same with John who is told that he must Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

All of these and more point to the time of the Two Witnesses and the thing they have in common is that they're a remnant which God had set aside.Zerubbabel himself wont be doing those things,God was speaking symbolically of his remnant fulfilling that prophecy.Same with Joshua and John.

In Colossians 1 we are bring told who his Two Witnesses are.Water and blood.Or his word,the OT & NT.
By him all things consist and he brings us unto himself through the blood of his cross.In Zechariah God says "not by might,nor by power,but by my spirit."

Spirit,water,blood.

The spirit testifies of the Two Witnesses.All things consist through spirit,water,blood and by that,they testify of their creator.They glorify him.
The 2 men in revelation 11 is symbolic for not only the word of God,but also man and woman.We were created in the image of the Living Word.
The word became flesh.The word is in our dna,and we became flesh.
The 144,000/two witnesses are both men and women.

Searching "water and blood" brings up some very interesting results that I have never before noticed.
There is a lot more, but here is an overview:

Revelation 11:6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will
1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Exodus 7:20
And Moses and Aaron did so, as the Lord commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

The connection between God's judgement on Jerusalem and His judgement on Egypt is unmistakable too:

From the blessings and curses:
Deuteronomy 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

From the Babylonian captivity:
Amos 4:10 I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of EGYPT: your young men have I slain with the sword, and have taken away your horses; and I have made the stink of your camps to come up unto your nostrils: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord. 11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew SODOM and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

From the destruction of Jerusalem:
Too much to quote, but read in Revelations through the seven trumpets and the veils, and the Egypt imagery from the heavenly viewpoint can not be missed.

 

[Vucesa]

There are some clues given in Revelations 11 to the time of the two witnesses.
John measures the temple with those that worship in it (who will die), but leaves out the court for the Gentiles (Romans) who will tread under foot the holy city for forty two months.
We are not given the names of the two witnesses, but they are referred to in Zechariah 4:14 "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."
The signs of Moses are given to the witnesses, so even at that late stage God gives the Jews the opportunity to repent and believe.
God is sentencing Jerusalem to death, and the law of Moses says; "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death;" (Deuteronomy 17:6).
We are also told that the place of the two witnesses in V.8 is Jerusalem, and Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.

But the 1260 days cannot be past because what follows after the two witnesses is the 7th trumpet where the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ.

That has not happened, clearly.

 

[Beekeeper]

But the 1260 days cannot be past because what follows after the two witnesses is the 7th trumpet where the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ.

That has not happened, clearly.

Revelations 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This verse must be the heart of the whole book of Revelations, because it is the first mention in the book of events following the destruction of Jerusalem.
The focus is on heaven, but when Jerusalem fell the new covenant kingdom of Christ arose, because Jerusalem represented the broken old covenant.
The seventh trumpet is a spiritual foreshadowing of Christ's second coming, as is also in Mathew 24.
but it does not mean that Christ will establish an earthly kingdom.
He is not that type of king.
Remember John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Christ's kingdom is present and heavenly, not future and earthly.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Searching "water and blood" brings up some very interesting results that I have never before noticed.
There is a lot more, but here is an overview:

Revelation 11:6
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will
1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Exodus 7:20
And Moses and Aaron did so, as the Lord commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

The connection between God's judgement on Jerusalem and His judgement on Egypt is unmistakable too:

From the blessings and curses:
Deuteronomy 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

From the Babylonian captivity:
Amos 4:10 I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of EGYPT: your young men have I slain with the sword, and have taken away your horses; and I have made the stink of your camps to come up unto your nostrils: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord. 11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew SODOM and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

From the destruction of Jerusalem:
Too much to quote, but read in Revelations through the seven trumpets and the veils, and the Egypt imagery from the heavenly viewpoint can not be missed.

I believe when the heavens roll like a scroll is when the new heaven and new earth happpens.
Also that we are not the only sentient beings in the heavens that God has created.The heavens is liken to a garden, and earth is a seed planted in a garden by God.

Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:4-6
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

God's sword being bathed is symbolism for water.The next verse then says his sword is filled with blood.
In the Isaiah verses you see spirit,water,blood.
The firmament in Genesis was called heaven.The Holy Spirit is a type of firmament dividing us from the waters below.The ones with the Holy Spirit are like the waters above the firmament.
The revealing of this is that the Holy Spirit is the kingdom of God coming down to earth,and God dwelling with man right now.

What once was will be again.there is nothing new under the sun.
The scripture is referencing the rolling of the heavens like a scroll as his word being proclaimed in the heavens and all those it passes through as being judged.A sword is symbolic of the word of God.

Why would his word be proclaimed in all the heavens if we are his only sentient creation in this universe?
God doesn't have to tell us there's more life out in the universe,but he does if you search out a matter.
Even if I believe that New Jerusalem is already here,I also believe that the power of the Holy Spirit will be unlike nothing we have ever seen before.
Most people believe that a physical kingdom will come down from the heavens,but I'm not so sure about that.
New wine,new song,New Jerusalem is all the same thing pointing to the finished work of Jesus, and his promise.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

@BetterCallPsalms Post 1439

Of course I would allow somebody into my home if they were fearing for their safety, but that isn't the case.


But that's my point, Antisemitism is as high as it has ever been. A Jewish man was just stabbed in NY. He was moving to Fl because he feared for his life in NY. This is a huge issue and it's happening now.


@BetterCallPsalms Post 1439
But I am not going to sit there and agree with those who think that Israel has not carried out a genocide.
Just as the Pagan Nazis paid for their war crimes, so should Israeli's who have done the same acts.


You don't feed and immunize people you plan to murder, and you dont tell them you're coming. smh

 

[PotofSoup]

That would mean that you agree with me that SOME Jewish people are under the Abrahamic covenant and some are not.



There was a conditional part of the Abrahamic covenant too, and it held until Christ had risen:

Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

How can a soul be "cut off from his people" and still remain a citizen of the promised land?
None the less, the book of Hebrews would teach us that the Old Testament saints were saved by grace through Christ as well, and I bet that none other than Jesus Himself obeyed the law of Moses perfectly.
Never the less there is one thing in common between the old (Mt. Sinai) covenant and the new (risen Jesus) covenant, and that is they both demand obedience through faith- although the burden under the new is made light.
So yes, the old covenant has most certainly been broken never to come back again, and the curses have been applied.
With it part of the Abrahamic covenant, ie circumcision, has been broken too.

Romans 2:25
" For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."

By this we can know that Romans 11 is all about salvation in Christ, and not about going back to the earthly promised land.

Hi again Beekeeper,

You misunderstood the context, when I said, "not every physical descendant of Abraham automatically receives the covenant promises". You originally said that not all of Abrahams descendants are chosen. I agree in that Ishmael and Esau Abrahams descendants, and that they were not chosen by God, the context is that God chooses who He pleases, not based on merit when it comes to the Abrahamic covenant. So, God chose Isaac, Jacob, and all of Jacob's descendants.

I am glad you see Genesis 17:14 as part of the same Abrahamic covenant as the earlier promises as a minority of people see it as a separate covenant. However, across Jewish, Christian, and ANE scholarship, you’ll see a consistent model of Genesis 15 = Covenant ratification (unconditional) and Genesis 17 = covenant sign. Therefore, the unconditional covenant = God guarantees the promises and the conditional sign = humans must adopt the marker of belonging. So, the covenant continues even if individuals fail. But individuals who reject the sign are cut off from the covenant people, not the covenant itself. Paul confirms this in Galatians 3:17.

Therefore, the promise of the land remains intact even if an individual does not get circumcised and it is still in effect today. Thanks again for your response.

 

[Beekeeper]

You don't feed and immunize people you plan to murder, and you dont tell them you're coming. smh

Political control of food supply?
MRNA?
Ratsack?
Would sending a text and blowing up your house be virtuous?

Anyway for those who believe the pre-trip rapture delusion it is all good, including nuclear war.
The next generation is abandoned and your hearts desire conflict.

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;

Romans 10:15 How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the GOSPEL OF PEACE.

2Samuel 24.
David the man after God's heart INTENDED to start an unjust war against a pagan nation, so God killed 70,000 of David's men.
Netanyahu is not a man after God's own heart.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Political control of food supply?
MRNA?
Ratsack?
Would sending a text and blowing up your house be virtuous?

Anyway for those who believe the pre-trip rapture delusion it is all good, including nuclear war.
The next generation is abandoned and your hearts desire conflict.

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign;

Romans 10:15 How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the GOSPEL OF PEACE.

2Samuel 24.
David the man after God's heart INTENDED to start an unjust war against a pagan nation, so God killed 70,000 of David's men.
Netanyahu is not a man after God's own heart.

Would taking hostages that are babies, raping female hostages, killing parents in front of children, strangling the Bebas boys?

 

[Beekeeper]

Would taking hostages that are babies, raping female hostages, killing parents in front of children, strangling the Bebas boys?

Under the law of Moses the punishment would be a life for a life.
The procedure would be first to get the facts right in the presence of credible witnesses.
The sentence would be pronounced by an authorized judge who is a man of God and a terror to evil doers, not to the innocent.
It would be executed in a restrained and balanced manner, and the people would get on with life as peaceably as they can manage to do so.

Unfortunately in this time we have psychopaths in both America and Israel that will not stop killing the innocent and stealing until their own nations are either destroyed or sufficiently weakened.
Defending yourself does not mean killing everyone that you do not like.
Those who follow that path soon find that they do not like anyone.

 

[God-fearing]

To tell you the truth I just can't believe this thread. We may have difference of opinion on the fate of Israel. I can deal with that.
But it seems that many here rather side with a people and even a nation that have a history of lieing, murder, deception, and flat out hating and killing anyone that does not convert to their ways. That is the history of Iran and the people of gaza for years.
Very well known for there abomination and cruelty toward those that appose them.
Yet their proven fake propaganda seems to be the truth to some here.
When it comes and it will come when you face the decision of Islam or Christ I pray you all stand in boldness for Christ.
In the meanwhile as prophecy un folds just as the word of God has foretold because this phoney, heartless, murdering, Christ rejecting, Israel exist remember the side you have chosen, because without this above mentioned Israel none of this would of happened.
If you have not seen it this chaos is going global. Coming to a neighborhood near you. I pray you all are ready.
Common sense seems to evade even the simplest of truth..
Without a Israel...the people...the land....their beliefs, there would be no book of revelation.....and who in there right mind especially this day and age would profess to be a jew?

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I've haven't seen anyone in the thread support Islam, or any other canal nationI have seen others point out the state of Israel being no different then any other nation a part of the Babylonian empire.
Does that mean those people are antichrist because they believe that Israel isn't a state,but a body of believers?

You said many people are siding with a antichrist mind, or nation.That wouldn't be true if those people believe that true Israel is found in Christ.

 

[Beekeeper]

To tell you the truth I just can't believe this thread. We may have difference of opinion on the fate of Israel. I can deal with that.
But it seems that many here rather side with a people and even a nation that have a history of lieing, murder, deception, and flat out hating and killing anyone that does not convert to their ways. That is the history of Iran and the people of gaza for years.
Very well known for there abomination and cruelty toward those that appose them.
Yet their proven fake propaganda seems to be the truth to some here.
When it comes and it will come when you face the decision of Islam or Christ I pray you all stand in boldness for Christ.
In the meanwhile as prophecy un folds just as the word of God has foretold because this phoney, heartless, murdering, Christ rejecting, Israel exist remember the side you have chosen, because without this above mentioned Israel none of this would of happened.
If you have not seen it this chaos is going global. Coming to a neighborhood near you. I pray you all are ready.
Common sense seems to evade even the simplest of truth..
Without a Israel...the people...the land....their beliefs, there would be no book of revelation.....and who in there right mind especially this day and age would profess to be a jew?

None of us who have chosen Christ also have to decide between modern Israel and Islam, because we already choose Christ.
The nation that God called Israel was destroyed in 70AD, and by that time the four and twenty elders which sat before God seemed to think it was good riddance to bad rubbish (Revelations 11:15-18).
We can always go to the Old Testament and find much better times between God and that nation, but Revelations 11 will tell us more relevant information on how that situation is up to date.
Just as the book of Revelations was in tact before 1948, it will continue to be after modern Israel is finished.
That does not mean that some peoples interpretations will not suffer damage, but these things are better sooner than later.
The will of man is still free enough to call their cats, children and even nations "Israel", but none of it is as important in God's prophesy as they might vainly imagine.
For my part the next prophesied event I expect in future is the second and final coming of Christ.

Regarding the things that you can't believe about this thread, I also can't believe the propaganda that you believe.
The reason is that my family comes from former Palestine, and my grandparents remember a time when Christians, Muslims and Jews lived together in long established peace.
If you want to know the truth about how bad we all are, why get your information from the power that wants to steal our land and deprive us of our rights?

 

[Beekeeper]

Hi again Beekeeper,

You misunderstood the context, when I said, "not every physical descendant of Abraham automatically receives the covenant promises". You originally said that not all of Abrahams descendants are chosen. I agree in that Ishmael and Esau Abrahams descendants, and that they were not chosen by God, the context is that God chooses who He pleases, not based on merit when it comes to the Abrahamic covenant. So, God chose Isaac, Jacob, and all of Jacob's descendants.

I am glad you see Genesis 17:14 as part of the same Abrahamic covenant as the earlier promises as a minority of people see it as a separate covenant. However, across Jewish, Christian, and ANE scholarship, you’ll see a consistent model of Genesis 15 = Covenant ratification (unconditional) and Genesis 17 = covenant sign. Therefore, the unconditional covenant = God guarantees the promises and the conditional sign = humans must adopt the marker of belonging. So, the covenant continues even if individuals fail. But individuals who reject the sign are cut off from the covenant people, not the covenant itself. Paul confirms this in Galatians 3:17.

Therefore, the promise of the land remains intact even if an individual does not get circumcised and it is still in effect today. Thanks again for your response.

The first part sounds a bit like the old debate about man's free will vs. God's free will.
In the times of Ishmael and of Esau the Abrahamic covenant was in place, yet it seems that you are telling me that God was free to NOT choose those two children?
Well I can see that too, but did God bound Himself in a different way to the children of Jacob than He did to the children of Abraham before Jacob?
There is of course the covenant of Sinai, but like circumcision it seems that man has power to break that too, if he chooses to do so.
As long as man is still a party to the covenant, it is possible for God to be 100% faithful and intend to be so for eternity, yet man like an adulterous wife can break the marriage.
I can see the unbreakable part of the Abrahamic covenant, especially in light of Galatians 3:16 where we learn that the covenant was made with Jesus, but I can not find the part where citizenship in the holy land was ever unconditional.

You make a point that for those who obey in the matter of circumcision, their citizenship remains despite the unbelief of the individual who disobeys and is cut off, but do you also consider that it is possible for a man under the law to be circumcised in vain?
"For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."
So if a man's status is now "uncircumcision" that means he is like a Gentile, regardless of what is done to his flesh.
He is not a rightful citizen of the holy land.
So what happens if it is not just one man who loses his citizenship in this way, but every single man other than Jesus?
Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" ?
Well, adultery is Biblical grounds for divorce, and God has divorced the earthly nation of Israel (Isaiah 50).

Just as Jesus was sentenced to death with a capital letter sign on the cross; "JESUS Of NAZERETH THE KING OF THE JEWS",
the earthly nation was also sentenced to death in the presence of two witnesses.
"MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH".

So what now of the covenant with Jesus that cannot be broken?
Well that part continues for all!

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[brightfame52]

Did Paul spiritualize scripture ?

One of the reasons for the confusion and error of not realizing the Church and Israel are the same people just under a different economy, is because its ignored how Paul spiritualized things in the OT to give their application and meaning into the NT which He served, for He was a Minister of the New Testament and in being so a Minister to the gentiles .

2 Cor 3:6

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Rom 15:16

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Yes, its the same ministry..

The New Covenant must be applied to the gentiles, this same one promised to Israel here Jer 31:31

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Now lets observe how Paul spiritualized scripture in the OT to give us to know that the OT in general was written with a underlying spiritual relevance not comprehended during the OT times but was to be revealed in the NT times 1 Pet 1:10-12


10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.


Now lets look at an instance of how Paul spiritualized events in the OT ! 1 Cor 10:1-4,11

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Now think about what Paul has just stated here in this passage ! Spiritual food, drink, rock and Christ, now where in the written account of the Exodus is any of this mentioned ? For in the literal account we read of physical manna, water from a physical rock ! We observe the people of Israel passing through the red sea and a cloud by day and pillar by night, but there is no mention of baptism as Paul states. The point here is that the Apostle is demonstrating the proper way to interpret the OT ! Not only did the story literally happen in the OT but it had a higher and spiritual meaning which the Holy Spirit intended for it to have..Thats why Paul says to this same church earlier about the things he spake to them this:

1 Cor 2:12-13

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Hence, spiritual food, spiritual drink, spiritual rock can mean a spiritual Israel The Church. 4

 

[Churchgoer]

None of us who have chosen Christ also have to decide between modern Israel and Islam, because we already choose Christ.
The nation that God called Israel was destroyed in 70AD, and by that time the four and twenty elders which sat before God seemed to think it was good riddance to bad rubbish (Revelations 11:15-18).
We can always go to the Old Testament and find much better times between God and that nation, but Revelations 11 will tell us more relevant information on how that situation is up to date.
Just as the book of Revelations was in tact before 1948, it will continue to be after modern Israel is finished.
That does not mean that some peoples interpretations will not suffer damage, but these things are better sooner than later.
The will of man is still free enough to call their cats, children and even nations "Israel", but none of it is as important in God's prophesy as they might vainly imagine.
For my part the next prophesied event I expect in future is the second and final coming of Christ.

Regarding the things that you can't believe about this thread, I also can't believe the propaganda that you believe.
The reason is that my family comes from former Palestine, and my grandparents remember a time when Christians, Muslims and Jews lived together in long established peace.
If you want to know the truth about how bad we all are, why get your information from the power that wants to steal our land and deprive us of our rights?

Actually I personally know Jewish family who is from Palestine, and they call that land Palestine, and they had generation and generations lived there. They are against isreal state took over their land too.

Go figure.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Unfortunately in this time we have psychopaths in both America and Israel that will not stop killing the innocent and stealing until their own nations are either destroyed or sufficiently weakened.
Defending yourself does not mean killing everyone that you do not like.
Those who follow that path soon find that they do not like anyone.

Major Iranian-Backed Terror Attacks & Operations

• • 1979–1981 Iran Hostage Crisis: Militants stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, holding 52 American citizens hostage for 444 days.
  • 1983 Beirut Bombings: Iran-backed Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad orchestrated suicide bombings at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut (killing 17 Americans) and the U.S. Marine barracks (killing 241 U.S. military personnel).
  • 1992 & 1994 Argentina Bombings: Attacks on the Israeli Embassy (29 dead) and the AMIA Jewish community center (85 dead) in Buenos Aires, orchestrated by Iran and executed by Hezbollah. [1]
  • 1996 Khobar Towers: A truck bombing at a U.S. Air Force housing complex in Saudi Arabia, directed by Iran, killed 19 U.S. airmen and wounded hundreds.
  • 2003–2011 Iraq Insurgency: Iran armed, funded, and trained Shia militant groups, with the U.S. Department of Defense confirming that Iran was responsible for the deaths of at least 608 American service members in Iraq.
  • 2012 Burgas Bus Bombing: An Iran-linked Hezbollah operative bombed a bus carrying Israeli tourists in Bulgaria, killing six people.

2011 Plot in Washington D.C.: The U.S. Department of Justice foiled an Iranian Quds Force plot to assassinate the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the U.S. by hiring a Mexican drug cartel.

2018 Paris Plot: French and European authorities disrupted an Iranian intelligence plot to bomb a rall of Iranian dissidents outside Paris.

2023–2026 Middle East Escalation: Iran directed and armed the "Axis of Resistance," leading to persistent attacks by Hamas on Israel, as well as Houthi strikes on global commercial and U.S. naval vessels in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden. AI


Hamas Attacks on Israel since it's inception

• 1990s–2000s (Suicide Bombings): Hamas carried out waves of bombings targeting Israeli buses, cafes, and public spaces, most notably during the Second Intifada (2000–2005), which killed hundreds of Israeli civilians.

• 2007–2022 (Rocket Attacks & Border Clashes): After seizing control of the Gaza Strip in 2007, Hamas launched thousands of unguided rockets into Israeli territory and engaged in multiple broader conflicts with the Israel Defense Forces (2008–2009, 2012, 2014, and 2021).

• October 7, 2023 (The Gaza War): Hamas and allied militants launched an unprecedented, coordinated invasion from Gaza into southern Israel. They breached the border barrier, massacred over 1,200 civilians, soldiers, and foreign nationals, and abducted more than 240 hostages. This attack triggered the ongoing, devastating Israel-Hamas war.

Maybe we need to be a little more clear on the facts of who is innocent.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I have seen others point out the state of Israel being no different then any other nation a part of the Babylonian empire.

Israel is different.
God is a Zionist.
The Bible calls Him:
The Holy One of Israel
The Redeemer of Israel
The Rock of Israel
The God of Israel
The Shepherd of Israel
The King of Israel
The Mighty One of Israel
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
God's name is eternally linked to the land and the people He chose.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The nation that God called Israel was destroyed in 70AD, and by that time the four and twenty elders which sat before God seemed to think it was good riddance to bad rubbish (Revelations 11:15-18).

Romans 11 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The will of man is still free enough to call their cats, children and even nations "Israel", but none of it is as important in God's prophesy as they might vainly imagine.

Not true, Romans 11.

If you want to know the truth about how bad we all are, why get your information from the power that wants to steal our land and deprive us of our rights?

This is false, Israel did not steal the land. It was their land first. Arabs were offered land and refused it half a dozen times.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Actually I personally know Jewish family who is from Palestine, and they call that land Palestine, and they had generation and generations lived there.

Doesn't matter what they call it, Palestine isn't now nor has it ever been a country.

They are against isreal state took over their land too.

Not true, and not possible. If they are Jewish they are on their own land. smh