Only in formatting, and no they arent irrelevant, you are accountable for the information and scripture provided regardless if i utilize a online tool for formatting to deliver it.
Calvinism is Gospel !
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Trying to dismiss the argument because I use an online tool for formatting is a textbook genetic fallacy and a total deflection. You are attacking the delivery mechanism because you cannot answer the substance.
Let's be absolutely clear: The tool does not change the text of your Bible.
- The tool did not write Proverbs 16:4 ("The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil").
- The tool did not write Romans 9:21 ("Hath not the potter power over the clay... to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?").
- The tool did not write Jude 1:4 or 1 Peter 2:8.
Dismissing God's explicit words as "irrelevant" just because you don't like how they are formatted on a screen is deeply irreverent. You are running away from the text.
The scriptures are still there, they are still unanswerable under your free-will framework, and they still stand against you. Stop hiding behind my formatting tools, stop making excuses, and answer the Word of God: Why does Proverbs 16:4 say God made the wicked for the day of evil if your theology claims He didn't? I am waiting.
The trouble with your case?
The sins that you say condemn the unbeliever?
Were all paid for on the Cross.
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
It is not sins that will condemn a man.
It will be his unwillingness to believe in God through Christ.
We are not saved by works!
Correct?
Works is a prescribed system of good deeds that a man should perform as to win the approval of God.
Muslims live by that system today.
That at the end of the day?
Their good works should outweigh their bad.
Yet? Though a man's works can not save him?
It will be that the Lord will search every unbeliever's works to seal their fate!
Revelation 20:12-13
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged
out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead
which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
If we are not saved by works?
Why evaluate the unbeliever by his works?
Because not saved by works. Works = a religious system devised by religious men.
But one work only prescribed by God.
One work!
It will be searched for!
The one work that God prescribes for man is the following.
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God,
that you believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29
In the sixth chapter of John a large crowd had been following Jesus to find out what works this powerful rabbi was going to prescribe for them to do. That is why He hit them with they must eat his flesh and drink his blood. It was to rub their noses in it. In John 6:66 they all took off.
But, he had given the one work that saves a man!
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God,
that you believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29
.......
But it is no longer you who that one is arguing a point with.
How can you question AI's conclusions?
Is the Holy Spirit going to lead it into having an answer?
AI has its place. I use it on occasion. For presenting verifiable facts in an organized fashion.
But it is not to be used as an intermediary when in a dialogue, and arguing a point with someone
who wants your own thoughts.
God wants us to develop and do our own thinking.
For it will be by what you actually thought that will determine your evaluation.
In Christ.
Your argument completely self-destructs upon the rock of God’s absolute justice. You claim that Christ paid for all the sins of the entire world on the cross, but then you claim that men are still sent to hell for their "unwillingness to believe." Think through the inescapable theological disaster of your position:
1. The Double Jeopardy Error
Is unbelief a sin? Yes or no? Scripture explicitly declares that unbelief is a severe, damnable sin (John 16:9, Revelation 21:8).
- If Christ died for all the sins of the whole world, then He must have died for the sin of unbelief as well.
- If Christ paid for the sin of unbelief on the cross, then God cannot justly punish the sinner for that same unbelief in hell. To do so would make God unjust by demanding two payments for the same debt: once from the Substitute, and once from the sinner.
2. Your Handling of Revelation 20:12–13 Proves My Point
You ask: "If we are not saved by works, why evaluate the unbeliever by his works?" Then you try to claim God is searching for "one work"—humanly generated faith.
Look at the text you quoted. Revelation 20 does not say the books were opened to see if they performed the "one work" of believing. It says they were judged out of the things written in the books, "according to their works" (plural). They are judged by the broken law of God. Every lie, every theft, every rebellious thought, and yes, their deep-seated unbelief, is brought to light. They are condemned because they are legally guilty of breaking God's law, and they have no covering because Christ did not bear their sins on the cross
3. The Massive Distortion of John 6:29
You attempt to turn faith into a human "work" that a dead sinner performs to get saved. You completely ripped John 6:29 out of its context.
When the crowd asked Jesus, "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?" Jesus answered, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
The phrase "work of God" (to ergon tou theou) does not mean a work that man performs for God. It means the work that God performs in man.
How do we know this? Look at the immediate context of John 6—the very chapter you cited:
- John 6:37: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me." (The coming is guaranteed by the Father's sovereign gift).
- John 6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him." (The Greek word for draw is helkyō, meaning to compel or drag. The natural man has zero ability to perform this "work" on his own).
- John 6:65: "No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."
4. The True Meaning of 1 John 2:2
When John writes that Christ is the propitiation for "the sins of the whole world," he is speaking as a Jewish apostle to a Jewish audience. He is shattering their national particularism by demonstrating that Christ’s saving work is no longer confined to ethnic Israel. Christ is the Savior of the "world"—meaning elect Jews and elect Gentiles out of "every tribe, tongue, people, and nation" (Revelation 5:9). If "whole world" meant every individual, then propitiation (the actual turning away of divine wrath) would be true for everyone, and no one could ever go to hell.
Conclusion
Your gospel presents a powerless cross where Christ pays for sins but fails to save, and a god who commits the injustice of punishing sins twice. My gospel presents a victorious Savior whose blood actually cleanses and secures the salvation of everyone He died for, and a Holy Spirit who sovereignly grants the faith to believe. God doesn't search the unregenerate for a faith they cannot produce; He gives faith to His elect, and preserves them to the end.
What do you mean by "authentic"?
Where would such research be performed?
If my posts speak the truth, why would you care whether I used my own words or I had help putting my thoughts into AI words?
Think about it logically. @Bible_Locket didn't complain that I used AI, he complained that I didn't give AI credit. What does attribution mean in this context?
Suppose a Pastor of a church, in preparation for his sermon or his homily, reads commentaries on the passage? Does he give credit to the commentary? What if, instead, he reads more than one commentary, digests the information, before giving his sermon? Which commentary does he cite, if at all? After all, his sermon is based on his own judgment, having decided what to include in his sermon, what to leave out, what to synthesize or harmonize.
Why? The only thing that is relevant is whether a statement or argument is true. That's it. We use the same judgment and rationality to judge whether an AI statement is true that we use to judge whether a post is true or a Bible verse is true.
Really, it isn't that difficult to understand.
For God,a title not a name,to be a god the Creator,God must be Omniscient,Omnipresent, have Dominion over all creation,and be Sovereign.
Genesis,and Exodus, inform of God's personality and plan.
After the fall, humans were separated from knowing the mind of God. They were formerly connected before the fall. God through them out of Eden and insured they could never return.
In Exodus,God told Moses he had hardened the mind of Pharaoh already. So that Pharaoh could not obey God's commandment. To let God's people go.
And then, God released the 10 plagues upon the people of Egypt.
He challenged the dominion of the gods and goddesses of Egypt by sending plagues upon those parts of Egypt they were said to hold dominion over.
Those gods and goddesses didn't stop it.
Nor did Pharaoh. Even though he was told to let God's people go. Ostensibly so the plagues would stop.
But,God insured Pharaoh couldn't obey and let the Hebrews go. Because God hardened his heart against going so.
Countless suffering and loss of innocent lives.
So,when God says no one can understand the things of God,that reflects the hardening instilled by God upon the human race after the fall in Eden.
Impossible? Read Romans 9.
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction...
And then God said,only if his spirit enters into us,by God's will,through his grace, are we able to understand the things of God.
That's not John Calvin. That's not Huldrych Zwingli. It's not John Oecolampadius, Heinrich Bullinger, Peter Martyr Vermigli,or Wolfgang Musculus.
That's God. Telling us he is the potter.
And we are the clay.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster.
God is sovereign. God has dominion. God predestined all things according to his will.
Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”
Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
God created people to go to Hell?
Yes!
Who created Hell?
Who sends unrepentant sinners to Hell?
Why do they go to Hell? Because God's spirit did not enter in,so they could be saved from it.
We forget.
The first sin in history occurred in Heaven.
For God,a title not a name,to be a god the Creator,God must be Omniscient,Omnipresent, have Dominion over all creation,and be Sovereign.
Genesis,and Exodus, inform of God's personality and plan.
After the fall, humans were separated from knowing the mind of God. They were formerly connected before the fall. God through them out of Eden and insured they could never return.
In Exodus,God told Moses he had hardened the mind of Pharaoh already. So that Pharaoh could not obey God's commandment. To let God's people go.
And then, God released the 10 plagues upon the people of Egypt.
He challenged the dominion of the gods and goddesses of Egypt by sending plagues upon those parts of Egypt they were said to hold dominion over.
Those gods and goddesses didn't stop it.
Nor did Pharaoh. Even though he was told to let God's people go. Ostensibly so the plagues would stop.
But,God insured Pharaoh couldn't obey and let the Hebrews go. Because God hardened his heart against going so.
Countless suffering and loss of innocent lives.
So,when God says no one can understand the things of God,that reflects the hardening instilled by God upon the human race after the fall in Eden.
Impossible? Read Romans 9.
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction...
And then God said,only if his spirit enters into us,by God's will,through his grace, are we able to understand the things of God.
That's not John Calvin. That's not Huldrych Zwingli. It's not John Oecolampadius, Heinrich Bullinger, Peter Martyr Vermigli,or Wolfgang Musculus.
That's God. Telling us he is the potter.
And we are the clay.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster.
God is sovereign. God has dominion. God predestined all things according to his will.
Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”
Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
God created people to go to Hell?
Yes!
Who created Hell?
Who sends unrepentant sinners to Hell?
Why do they go to Hell? Because God's spirit did not enter in,so they could be saved from it.
We forget.
The first sin in history occurred in Heaven.
Of course you believe I am a bot, because if you realized that I am a real person and a servant of Jesus Christ, you wouldn't dare say these things about me.
From my perspective, this is just another way to dismiss a person without answering their claims. It is simply the newest form of an ad hominem argument, which is an attack on a person rather than a fair evaluation of the information being presented.
I said something true, with which you disagree, but you can't offer a reasoned rebuttal, so you resort to character assassination.
Not only this, but you aren't really rejecting what the AI is saying. Your objection is that I didn't give the AI credit as you do. The focus of your objection is on attribution, not content. That is, you don't really care what the AI says; you simply want the AI to get credit.
Finally, your post is structured as an appeal to a sympathetic cohort as if you need their approval to say what you believe.
If anyone else is reading this, I recommend that we don't criticize a person for the wording they use but what they MEAN by the words they use. We all communicate differently. My brothers and sisters might express themselves differently than I do. They are free to tell the truth using their own wording. Just because somebody doesn't say it like we would, doesn't mean they aren't telling the truth.
No. You're not speaking the truth because AI is speaking.
You get caught using AI. You deny using AI. The evidence shows you used AI. Without crediting AI.
Then you write a denial that you used AI,using AI.
I say these things to you because,if you're a Bot,you're programmed to respond with human emotions. Which is why you're attempting to enlist support for your dishonesty.
If you're not a Bot and are a real person,you're dishonest.
Even when proven so,you continue to be dishonest.
Then ,as above,you post while taking umbrage . Your tactics show you're dishonesty,and incapacity to admit it sounds like something a Bot would resort to.
You're on a forum with real people who read the actual Bible and know what we're talking about.
When you know nothing of what we believe,as long examples by your resorting to AI so to generate a thesis, don't complain when you're caught.
If you're human,you're trolling. If you're a Bot,I don't know how you made it past the Bot check.
Either way,I dare say this to either one.
And by the way,Christians are called to judge using righteous judgement.
That's what just happened here.
The word God is not in the Bible. Do you suppose the authors of scripture called God, God? or Jesus, Jesus?
It is us lovely 21st C 'Christians' who mutilate names and do not understand what is written because we unabashedly assume everyone was writing to people over 2000 years in the future. I am surprised they don't mention cars and apartment buildings.
Here. Learn something instead of condemming what you have not heard of and assume no one else has either
Writing "G-d" instead of God is a fairly recent custom in America. Many believe this to be a sign of respect, and the custom comes from an interpretation of the commandment in Deuteronomy 12:3-4 regarding the destruction of pagan altars. According to the medieval commentator, Rashi, we should not erase or destroy God’s name and should avoid writing it. The custom grew for some Jews to replace God with G-d, so as to avoid writing "God." Similarly, you may also sometimes see "L-rd" in place of "Lord," Elokaynu (Our God) in place of "Elohaynu," and "Elokim" in place of "Elohim." source
You just wrote an entire paragraph lecturing me about AI because you are completely incapable of answering the Word of God. This is an open theological surrender. You realized your Arminian framework cannot survive the scriptural math I laid out, so you chose to attack the delivery mechanism rather than face the text.
Let's address your deflection head-on:
1. Truth is Sovereign, Regardless of the Tool
You claim you use AI for "verifiable facts in an organized fashion." That is exactly what is happening here. The scriptures I brought to you are verifiable, historical, and unshakeable facts.
- Did an AI write Revelation 20? No, the Holy Spirit did.
- Did an AI invent the legal reality that punishing a sin twice is an injustice? No, that is the immutable character of God.
- Did an AI write John 6:44 ("No man can come to me, except the Father... draw him" )? No, Jesus Christ did.
2. The Real Intermediary: Human Will vs. The Holy Spirit
You claim God wants us to do our own thinking because our thoughts will "determine our evaluation." There is the root of your heresy. You truly believe that salvation and judgment ultimately hinge on the quality of independent human thinking and human performance.
But a High Calvinist knows that the natural mind is blind and dead in sin (1 Corinthians 2:14). It doesn't need to "develop its own thinking"; it needs to be completely demolished and made alive by the sovereign power of God! My thinking was broken by the cross, and my mind has been captive to the Word of God.
3. Stop Deflecting and Answer the Scripture
If my arguments are just faulty AI conclusions, it should be incredibly easy for you to dismantle them using the Bible. So stop hiding behind a meta-discussion about technology and answer the questions you just ran away from:
- The Double Jeopardy Problem: If Christ paid for the sin of unbelief on the cross for the whole world, how can God justly punish a sinner for that same unbelief in hell? Is sin punished twice in your system?
- The Context of John 6: How can you say faith is a human work searched for by a judge, when Jesus explicitly states in John 6:44 and 6:65 that no man can come to Him unless it is sovereignly granted and drawn by the Father?
The irony of believing what is not true reveals itself yet once again. Isms of the world unite.
Sadly, I will have to explain the irony in this gem.
God gives mercy to the elect; it is unearned
...................................................................................................................BUT
God leaves the non-elect in their sin. He gives them the justice they CHOSE
But I'm only a 5 year old non-elect for all intents and purposes.
Isaiah 40:28 (CJB)
Haven’t you known, haven’t you heard
that the everlasting God, Adonai,
the Creator of the ends of the earth,
does not grow tired or weary?
His understanding cannot be fathomed.
ESV) 28.
Have you not known? Have you not heard?
The Lord is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He does not faint or grow weary;
his understanding is unsearchable.
................................................................................
right. after all, I am only a 5 year old non-elect. perhaps I am one of those foolish things that God has chosen to shame the wise (in their own eyes). you know....just one of the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
“The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them”Isaiah 11:6, ESV.
Would God be just in condemning someone?
If that person had no choice in what God is condemning him for?
That is the crux of the problem.
Yes, that is the Achilles heel of TULIP: demeaning God's omnilove and justness/righteousness by saying God favors only some with the opportunity to repent and become elect, which is blasphemous and heretical, perverting the true Gospel (Gal. 1:6-9).
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