The Parable of the Ten Virgins does not refer to the church

[ZNP]

"5. You cannot refer to unbelievers who are dead in their sins and offenses as "foolish" because they didn't prepare."

On the contrary, I can because Christ Jesus certainly did.
But you are right, in that they are not unprepared unbelievers because they are foolish, they are foolish because they are unprepared unbelievers.

If they were unbelievers then they would be condemned already.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The condemnation is not the Lord doesn't know them, the condemnation is that they didn't believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. The Parable of the ten virgins is clear, all ten were waiting for the bridegroom to return. The foolish virgins did not reject the name of Jesus Christ.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

The foolish Virgins are not reproved for sin, or righteousness or judgment. They are reproved because they weren't ready and because Jesus says "I don't know you". If I don't know someone I am not inviting them to my wedding. That doesn't mean I am calling them a sinner or unrighteous or having evil judgement.

 

[cv5]

If they were unbelievers then they would be condemned already.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The condemnation is not the Lord doesn't know them, the condemnation is that they didn't believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. The Parable of the ten virgins is clear, all ten were waiting for the bridegroom to return. The foolish virgins did not reject the name of Jesus Christ.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

The foolish Virgins are not reproved for sin, or righteousness or judgment. They are reproved because they weren't ready and because Jesus says "I don't know you". If I don't know someone I am not inviting them to my wedding. That doesn't mean I am calling them a sinner or unrighteous or having evil judgement.

"The foolish Virgins are not reproved for sin, or righteousness or judgment."

The parable identifies them from the outset according to their true character, which is then demonstrated by their conduct, exactly as you would expect of the Omniscient God!

Mat 25:2
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

The result being that they are revealed and identified for reproof and rejection:

Mat 25:12
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

[cv5]

AI vomiting all over this thread again. Are you incapable of simply responding directly to various posts?

 

[cv5]

If they were unbelievers then they would be condemned already.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The condemnation is not the Lord doesn't know them, the condemnation is that they didn't believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. The Parable of the ten virgins is clear, all ten were waiting for the bridegroom to return. The foolish virgins did not reject the name of Jesus Christ.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

The foolish Virgins are not reproved for sin, or righteousness or judgment. They are reproved because they weren't ready and because Jesus says "I don't know you". If I don't know someone I am not inviting them to my wedding. That doesn't mean I am calling them a sinner or unrighteous or having evil judgement.

"If they were unbelievers then they would be condemned already."

They were. Clearly.

Mat 25:2
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

 

[Psalm1]

Wrong again. Wedding supper is on the earth.

You see, the newlywed Couple DEPART from the Chuppah (located at the Fathers house) after their 7 year honeymoon.
Together they descend as the honored Couple to enjoy the Marriage Supper, which is the public kingdom celebration held after Christ and His Bride return to earth.

The Marriage and the Marriage Feast Are Distinct Events​

Jesus’ promise in John 14 and His teachings concerning the future wedding banquet describe two different locations and stages of the marriage program.

1. Christ takes His Bride to the Father’s house in heaven​

Jesus said:


Christ was returning to His Father in heaven. Therefore, when He comes to receive the Church to Himself, He takes her to the same place to which He went: the Father’s house in heaven.

This corresponds closely with 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17:

1. Christ descends from heaven.
2. The dead in Christ are raised.
3. Living believers are caught up.
4. All meet the Lord in the air.
5. They thereafter remain with Him.

John Walvoord correctly regarded John 14:1–3 as Christ’s promise to take believers to the Father’s heavenly dwelling. Missler likewise compared the Rapture and heavenly marriage to the bridegroom’s taking his bride to the place prepared in his father’s house.

In the pretribulational sequence, the Church remains with Christ in heaven during Daniel’s seventieth week. During this period she is examined at the Judgment Seat of Christ and is clothed in “fine linen,” representing “the righteous acts of the saints”:


Thus, the marriage or Nissuin stage belongs to heaven. The identification of this period as seven years follows from the pretribulational chronology; John 14 itself does not explicitly call it a seven-year honeymoon.

2. The public wedding feast follows Christ’s return to earth​

Revelation 19 presents a decisive sequence:

1. The Bride is already prepared and clothed in heaven — Revelation 19:7–8.
2. The invitation to the marriage supper is announced — Revelation 19:9.
3. Heaven opens and Christ descends to earth with His glorified saints — Revelation 19:11–14.
4. Christ defeats His enemies and establishes His earthly kingdom — Revelation 19:15–21; 20:1–6.

The marriage is therefore already accomplished before Christ leaves heaven, while the announced supper naturally belongs to the kingdom inaugurated by His return.

Walvoord connected the wedding feast with the close of the Tribulation and the Second Coming to earth. Fruchtenbaum likewise places the marriage feast on earth following the Second Coming, marking the beginning of the Messianic Kingdom. Thieme describes the Bride as prepared in heaven for the wedding supper occurring in connection with the Second Advent. Missler explicitly distinguishes “the Marriage of the Lamb in heaven” from “the Marriage Feast at the beginning of the Millennium.”

3. Jesus consistently locates the future kingdom banquet on earth​

Jesus described the banquet as occurring when the patriarchs and kingdom saints are raised and assembled in the Messianic Kingdom:


The expression “kingdom of heaven” in Matthew does not mean that the banquet is geographically inside heaven. It describes Heaven’s kingdom established upon the earth. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are associated with the resurrected saints entering Messiah’s earthly kingdom.

Jesus also said at the Last Supper:


Luke records the parallel statements:



Christ will eat and drink again when the kingdom comes. That points to the visible Messianic Kingdom on earth, not to the Bride’s preceding residence in heaven.

Jesus then told the apostles:


The twelve apostles judging the twelve tribes clearly belongs to Messiah’s restored Israelite kingdom on earth. The royal banquet and the government of Israel occupy the same kingdom setting.

Matthew 25 presents the same order. After the Bridegroom comes, the prepared attendants enter the wedding celebration. Immediately afterward, the Son of Man comes in glory, sits upon His throne, judges the nations and says:


The feast is consequently associated with the earthly kingdom entered by surviving believers after the Second Coming.

4. The Bride and the invited guests are distinguishable​

Revelation 19 distinguishes the Bride from those invited to the supper:


The Church is the Bride, whereas the invited guests include other redeemed groups—particularly resurrected Old Testament saints and Tribulation saints. Fruchtenbaum identifies these saints as the friends or guests of the Bridegroom whose resurrection prepares them to attend the feast on earth.

Daniel 12:11–13 places the resurrection and reward of Old Testament saints after the Tribulation, during the interval preceding the full establishment of the kingdom. This explains why the public supper cannot be completed in heaven throughout the seven-year Tribulation: some of its invited guests are not raised until after that period.

Conclusion​

The dispensational sequence is therefore:

1. Betrothal:
The Church is presently espoused to Christ — 2 Corinthians 11:2.

2. The Bridegroom receives the Bride:
At the Rapture Christ takes the Church to the Father’s house in heaven — John 14:1–3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17.

3. Preparation and marriage in heaven:
The Church appears before Christ’s judgment seat, receives her rewards and is presented as His prepared and glorified Bride — 1 Corinthians 3:12–15; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 19:7–8.

4. The Bride returns with Christ:
The glorified Church accompanies Him from heaven to earth — Revelation 19:11–14; Colossians 3:4.

5. The public marriage supper on earth:
Christ gathers the resurrected Old Testament saints, Tribulation saints and surviving kingdom believers for the great banquet inaugurating the Messianic Kingdom — Isaiah 25:6–9; Matthew 8:11; 26:29; Luke 22:16–18, 30; Revelation 19:9.

Therefore, the Father’s house is the heavenly abode to which Christ takes His Bride for the private marriage stage, whereas the Marriage Supper is the public kingdom celebration held after Christ and His Bride return to earth.

That distinction is represented, with some differences of detail, by Arnold Fruchtenbaum, John Walvoord, R. B. Thieme Jr. and Chuck Missler. It is not based merely upon later Jewish wedding customs; it follows primarily from the geographical and chronological movement of the biblical texts themselves.

Quote
"The expression “kingdom of heaven” in Matthew does not mean that the banquet is geographically inside heaven. It describes Heaven’s kingdom established upon the earth. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are associated with the resurrected saints entering Messiah’s earthly kingdom."

On the one hand you acknowledge the fathers house in heaven
Psssst....where the wedding and supper takes place.

BUT you NEED THE SUPPER , FESTIVITIES OR WHATEVER YOU ARE GETTING AT, ON EARTH...(THE BRIDES HOUSE).
You painted yourself into a corner big time
Which parallels postribber doctrine...which is not at all true.

The second coming is WITH BATTLE, AND ANAHILATION.
YOU need it to be a supper, festivities or whatever you are getting at.

Oh wait....that is WHY YOU ARE CHANGING THE VIRGIN PARABLE ALL AROUND,ISN'T IT??????

THAT IS WHY you need the change from "virgins" to "bridesmaids"

Busted big time
You need a second rapture of "bridesmaids".
You need it.
It ain't there but you NEED it.

 

[ZNP]

"If they were unbelievers then they would be condemned already."

They were. Clearly.

Mat 25:2
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

OK, so you are saying that people who teach the word of God by borrowing other people's messages and using AI, they are unbelievers who are pretending to be waiting for the Lord?

 

[cv5]

OK, so you are saying that people who teach the word of God by borrowing other people's messages and using AI, they are unbelievers who are pretending to be waiting for the Lord?

Here let me help you:

Psa 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

 

[cv5]

Quote
"The expression “kingdom of heaven” in Matthew does not mean that the banquet is geographically inside heaven. It describes Heaven’s kingdom established upon the earth. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are associated with the resurrected saints entering Messiah’s earthly kingdom."

On the one hand you acknowledge the fathers house in heaven
Psssst....where the wedding and supper takes place.

BUT you NEED THE SUPPER , FESTIVITIES OR WHATEVER YOU ARE GETTING AT, ON EARTH...(THE BRIDES HOUSE).
You painted yourself into a corner big time
Which parallels postribber doctrine...which is not at all true.

The second coming is WITH BATTLE, AND ANAHILATION.
YOU need it to be a supper, festivities or whatever you are getting at.

Oh wait....that is WHY YOU ARE CHANGING THE VIRGIN PARABLE ALL AROUND,ISN'T IT??????

THAT IS WHY you need the change from "virgins" to "bridesmaids"

Busted big time
You need a second rapture of "bridesmaids".
You need it.
It ain't there but you NEED it.

Here let me help you:

[Rev 19:7, 11-12, 14, 17-19 KJV]
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage (WEDDING SUPPER) of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. ...

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. ...

14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. ...

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[ZNP]

Here let me help you:

Psa 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

That is great, I am familiar with that verse, I think that Matthew 7:26 is clearly the definition for how Matthew is using foolish in "foolish virgins". I would also point out there is a difference from "a fool" and "foolish". If you want to say that every single person who has ever done something that is foolish is therefore a fool and therefore is claiming in their heart there is no God and therefore is not saved, then say so. Of course that would mean the Apostle Peter was never saved. Is that what you are saying?

Also answer my previous question, are you saying that someone who borrows messages from commentaries, or who uses AI to fashion their posts on this forum, that they are not believers and not saved?

 

[cv5]

Also answer my previous question, are you saying that someone who borrows messages from commentaries, or who uses AI to fashion their posts on this forum, that they are not believers and not saved?

Not only did I not say that, it never crossed my mind.

 

[ZNP]

Not only did I not say that, it never crossed my mind.

Well, the one thing we are definitely told about the foolish virgins is that they borrow oil from others. In fact that is the only thing we know for sure. We say that they didn't prepare for the Lord's coming, but in fact it is altogether plausible that they did prepare and intended to borrow the oil rather than buy it themselves.

So, if you want to say that the story says they are unbelievers that should be the central piece of evidence.

For example, there are preachers and teachers of the Bible for whom regurgitating what some Phd said is what they think is the normal way to get the oil from the word. They do it all the time, that is how they prepare a message.

It is how AI can write a message and AI is not saved. Maybe you are right.

 

[cv5]

Well, the one thing we are definitely told about the foolish virgins is that they borrow oil from others. In fact that is the only thing we know for sure.

No, they did NOT borrow oil from others. They FOOLISHLY thought that they could, but obviously this desperate gambit failed catastrophically, as they were refused because the request itself was FOOLISH.

Furthermore, their FOOLISH attempt to "buy" oil likewise failed miserably.

You do understand that the the 5 foolish bridesmaids WERE NOT allowed to attend the wedding feast. Right?

And you do understand that the sole reason is their failure to secure the necessary oil. Right?

 

[ZNP]

No, they did NOT borrow oil from others. They FOOLISHLY thought that they could, but obviously this desperate gambit failed catastrophically, as they were refused because the request itself was FOOLISH.

Furthermore, their FOOLISH attempt to "buy" oil likewise failed miserably.

You do understand that the the 5 foolish bridesmaids WERE NOT allowed to attend the wedding feast. Right?

And you do understand that the sole reason is their failure to secure the necessary oil. Right?

There are many Christians who borrow from others, they aren't sharing from their personal experience, they are sharing canned messages. This is how sunday school works in denominations. So why would these foolish virgins think that they would be able to borrow oil from the wise ones? It is perfectly reasonable to suggest it is because this was their habit.

I have seen this practice in three different congregations, where they want their "Bible teachers" to simply regurgitate their official teachings rather than a fresh word that the Lord had given them.

Jesus talked about how the Pharisees let their traditional teachings supersede what the Bible teaches. So this isn't some assumed practice, it is clearly mentioned in the gospels. It was so pervasive that Jesus warned the disciples "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" referring to their traditional teachings.

Now consider AI, that is all that AI does, and AI is not saved, and there are many Christians who are now using AI like a crutch.

Why are you arguing about this, it is obvious and I'm starting to agree with you. I can see how someone who teaches the word or preaches the word if they are simply borrowing someone elses revelation then that is like borrowing their oil. Yes, I think this can be evidence that these foolish virgins were not saved.

 

[PaulThomson]

I don't think many appreciate the truly stunning significance of "I do not know you". Why does anyone get invited to a wedding? Is it because they write good lesson plans based on Bible teachers and commentaries? No, the only reason anyone gets invited to a wedding is because either the bride of the groom knows you. The foolish virgins didn't know the Lord because they didn't go to Him in prayer to get the oil, they went to someone else's message, canned sermon or commentary.

I like to compare this to being a quarterback in football. Every single play in football is a test for that quarterback. He has three seconds or less to answer the test. He must recognize the defense and know where each receiver is, figure out who is open and get the ball to them in that time. He can also audible to a different play if he recognizes the defense beforehand. You can spend as much time in practice as you want to prepare, but when you are being tested you have three seconds or less. The pressure is intense and unless you have trained specifically to do this you can't. You can't spend your whole life borrowing canned messages and now all of a sudden pick out those personal experiences you have had. What makes this really easy to spot is AI. Now with that people who are posting these canned messages are very easy to spot.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

I asked Google the question, in AD 30, did a jewish bride wait in her father’s house for the groom to arrive, or did she go outside to meet him on the street?

Google AI - "It was typically the bride staying at her father’s house (or her family’s home) and waiting for the groom’s arrival—because the groom would come at a time that wasn’t publicly fixed, and the bride was expected to be ready.

When the groom finally arrived, his party would go to the bride and then lead the bridal procession back to the groom’s side/home (so the “going out” was characteristically associated with the bride meeting the bridegroom at the approach, not with her deliberately going out ahead of time to find him on the street)."

Do you agree with this?
Now, if the bride leaves her father’s house when she hears the shout - “The bridegroom is coming!” - meets the groom and his party on the street some time after the shout, and then they go to the father’s house in one procession, then the bride is on the street with the ten virgins before the groom and his party reaches the bride and her party. And the ten virgins are not the bride.

Jesus (the groom) descends from heaven with the saints who have already died (the groom's party) to meet the saints who are still alive (the bride) outside the house (off the earth and in the air/clouds), before they proceed together to the bride’s house (descend together to the earth) where they enjoy a wedding banquet (the destruction of the antichrist’s armies).

Who then are the 10 virgins who are the bride’s party, and why are they considered as separate from the Bride herself. My proposition is that the Bride is believers who are walking in the Spirit at the time running up to of the “shout" announcing the Groom’s approach. I propose that the virgins are associates of those believers, but are not walking in the Spirit during the Lord’s approach, i.e. His descent with his saints from heaven. These comprise two groups - the wise: those who have the Holy Spirit in their vessels (in their bodies, i.e. born of both water/natural and the Spirit/spiritual) but are not walking in Him at that time; and those who never had received the Holy Spirit because they had never received Jesus, but were born of water (natural birth) only and not also of the Spirit (spiritual birth) as well.

When the wise wake up and trim their lamps, they jettison any false ideas about how to be found blameless at His coming and about the time and manner of Jesus’ coming. They become part of the bride (the ascending party), joining His party (the descending saints) outside the house (in the air) and enter into the wedding with the groom (descend to earth in bodies like unto His glorious body (wearing the correct wedding garment). The foolish are not in love with the Groom, holding Him in their heart. They are only friendly with the Bride. They need to receive Jesus and receive the Spirit from the Father and Jesus and start walking in Him before the Groom and Bride gather together in the clouds. They don’t have the ability to be found blameless, and fail to become blameless (Holy Spirit led) before the two parties meet in the street (off-planet in the clouds). After the Lord and saints descend to Jerusalem, these foolish have survived His return, but cannot enter participate in the regime change and the millennium as saints, but may make it into the millennium as part of the nations over which the saints will rule with a rod of iron.,

Do you see any problem with this interpretation?

 

[cv5]

Why are you arguing about this, it is obvious and I'm starting to agree with you. I can see how someone who teaches the word or preaches the word if they are simply borrowing someone elses revelation then that is like borrowing their oil. Yes, I think this can be evidence that these foolish virgins were not saved.

I take it then that you are preparing a paper about how AI is a "type" of the wise virgins who had the oil?

 

[ZNP]

I take it then that you are preparing a paper about how AI is a "type" of the wise virgins who had the oil?

Of course not. My point is that borrowing the revelation that others have gotten from the word of God is the modus operandi of the foolish Virgins, they weren't the ones who went to the Lord to get the light which is why the Lord says "I don't know you" and this is precisely the same thing AI does and everyone would agree that AI is not saved.

 

[cv5]

Of course not. My point is that borrowing the revelation that others have gotten from the word of God is the modus operandi of the foolish Virgins, they weren't the ones who went to the Lord to get the light which is why the Lord says "I don't know you" and this is precisely the same thing AI does and everyone would agree that AI is not saved.

Oh. Hhmmmm.
So now you are postulating that "revelation" is a type of the oil. And they first tried to borrow it, and when that utterly failed, then they tried to buy it. And THAT utterly failed.

Why don't you write a paper about how the wise but stingy and miserly virgins ignored the pensive pleas of the foolish virgins and were responsible for their ultimate doom and devastating judgement?

That ought to make some waves in the theology circuit....!

 

[ZNP]

Oh. Hhmmmm.
So now you are postulating that "revelation" is a type of the oil. And they first tried to borrow it, and when that utterly failed, then they tried to buy it. And THAT utterly failed.

Why don't you write a paper about how the wise but stingy and miserly virgins ignored the pensive pleas of the foolish virgins and were responsible for their ultimate doom and devastating judgement?

That ought to make some waves in the theology circuit....!

I am not postulating, the Bible tells us clearly the word of God is a lamp unto my feet. the bible tells us that God is light, and Jesus is the incarnated word of God. When you get light from the word it is called "revelation".

The wise were not ignoring the pleas of the foolish ones, they were imparting wisdom. They knew you only get revelation from the word of God when you pay the price. You can't skate along simply lifting revelation from commentaries, and books. It is useless, people have to get a vision for themselves, they must go directly to the Lord themselves, this we know from the story, they did not go to the Lord for themselves despite thinking they now have oil.

 

[cv5]

I am not postulating, the Bible tells us clearly the word of God is a lamp unto my feet. the bible tells us that God is light, and Jesus is the incarnated word of God. When you get light from the word it is called "revelation".

The wise were not ignoring the pleas of the foolish ones, they were imparting wisdom. They knew you only get revelation from the word of God when you pay the price. You can't skate along simply lifting revelation from commentaries, and books. It is useless, people have to get a vision for themselves, they must go directly to the Lord themselves, this we know from the story, they did not go to the Lord for themselves despite thinking they now have oil.

"The wise were not ignoring the pleas of the foolish ones, they were imparting wisdom."

The wise were imparting wisdom by refusing to give the foolish this "oil of wisdom"?
And wisely sent the foolish on a fools errand (a quest which definitely failed) to "buy" oil?

Mat 25:8
“But the foolish virgins said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’

Mat 25:9
“But the wise replied, ‘No, otherwise there will not be enough for us and for you, too; go instead to the dealers and buy oil for yourselves.’

 

[ZNP]

"The wise were not ignoring the pleas of the foolish ones, they were imparting wisdom."

The wise were imparting wisdom by refusing to give the foolish this "oil of wisdom"?
And wisely sent the foolish on a fools errand (a quest which definitely failed) to "buy" oil?

Mat 25:8
“But the foolish virgins said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’

Mat 25:9
“But the wise replied, ‘No, otherwise there will not be enough for us and for you, too; go instead to the dealers and buy oil for yourselves.’

All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Jesus Christ, so I'll use Jesus as the standard.

Jesus said that we are to be His witnesses. He also said that we are foolish if we hear him but don't do what he says.

Now there are Christians who have not taken this charge to be a witness for the Lord seriously. They have "buried the talent in the back yard". Not only so but they will make excuses for why it is OK to ignore the Lord's command to be His witnesses. For them the judgment may be that they are both lazy and evil.

But here the foolish virgins are different. They do have torches, they did light the torch but now it is going out. So they need more oil. Do they go to the word of God in prayer seeking the Lord? No, they go to the wise virgins and ask to borrow their oil.

What did Jesus say? He said you search the scriptures but don't come unto Me. It can be a lot of work to go through the Biblical expositions and commentaries. The Lord doesn't call the foolish virgins lazy. They don't make excuses for why they don't have oil, He doesn't call them evil. But He says "I don't know you". They went and bought oil, but how did they get it? They didn't get it by going to the Lord, they must have gotten it elsewhere, perhaps from a commentary or a respected Bible expositor. Maybe now that we have AI they simply asked AI to write them something.

So yes, wisdom includes telling people what they don't want to hear. We are witnesses, that means we need to have a personal experience of Jesus to share. Simply parroting what someone else got from the word of God does not count.