Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification

[Genez]

That is not true . There are blessing that are received that speak of the person who is in the will of God. Finally you provide from the Lord an example of a good work. Thank you.

It was a true example.

They did not even know they were doing a good work.
Because in their mature walk it became a normal thing to do!

You must have a list of works to do?

 

[CS1]

It was a true example.

They did not even know they were doing a good work.
Because in their mature walk it became a normal thing to do!

You must have a list of works to do?

when tell other they must do good works and can't tell them what one is or even know what they do is one. That is legalism.


Good works bring glory to God and praise to Him from others and us. Praying for the sick visiting, providing a need for others and doing in the name of the Lord. Jesus said a cold cup of water given in His name will not go unrewarded.

 

[CS1]

How can any person have faith-alone without works, and also have their faith with works? How can any person be justified by faith-alone without works, and also by justified by their faith, with works?

Faith alone justification is logical and practical dysfunction. I.e. It can only justify a person by having faith-alone without works, then how can it work to justify anyone, that is practicing their faith.

Let's look at the logical and practical malfunction of justification by faith-alone without works: 1) It cannot be for people living their faith, since their faith is with works. 2) It be for anyone without works, since no living person can be without works.

1). Since faith-alone is only without works, then no person can have faith-alone with works.

And so, a person can only have faith-alone, when not practicing their faith. Else, their faith is with works, not alone without works.

Therefore, no living person can only be justified by faith-alone with works, and live by their faith. Else they are justified by their faith with works.

Either a person is justified by their faith-alone without works, or by their faith with works, not both: Else alone is no more alone, and works is no more works. As Scripture would say:

For if justification be by faith-alone, then is it no more with works: otherwise alone is no more alone. But if faith be with works, then is it no more justification by faith-alone: otherwise work is no more work.

And so, we conclude that justification by faith-alone without works, is not practical, because faith cannot be practiced, and also justify without works.

The only practical justification for the living, is by faith and with works. Else no living person can ever by justified by faith and live by their faith.

Hab 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

2). No living person can have faith-alone without works, since no living person can be without works. The living that do no works at all, is doing an evil work, by not doing good:

Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Only the dead can do no works at all, and so only the dead can have faith-alone without works.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

And yet, the dead can have no faith at all, else faith is no more faith, and dead is no more dead.

Conclusion: Justification by faith-alone without works, is so dysfunctional, that not even the dead can practice it, much less the living...

what I find interesting is the time one places to argue faith without works is dead yet can't tell one what work they do.

 

[Genez]

when tell other they must do good works and can't tell them what one is or even know what they do is one. That is legalism.


Good works bring glory to God and praise to Him from others and us. Praying for the sick visiting, providing a need for others and doing in the name of the Lord. Jesus said a cold cup of water given in His name will not go unrewarded.

You want a list to do?

 

[CS1]

You want a list to do?

no just don't tell me I need to do good works when one can't even say what they do as one.

 

[Genez]

what I find interesting is the time one places to argue faith without works is dead yet can't tell one what work they do.

(this a true story)

After work, at night, I was walking back to my apartment from the garage I where had parked my car.

As I rounded the path using my flashlight, in a normally darkened area I saw a pile of dog poop.
It blended right in with the twigs and stuff on the ground.
Without the flashlight helping me I would have easily stepped in it.
I walked around it.

As I was walking down the hill towards my apartment a thought quietly entered my mind.

Go back and clear it away.
I searched for a branch on the ground and preceded to push the stuff off the path.
It was a little difficult to work with.

As simple as that task seemed to be?
It was a good work.

Even a cup of cold water given counts in God's Word.

Then I heard a thought.

"You did not go looking for a good work."
The good work came to you.

Grace and peace ...

 

[2Christ]

no just don't tell me I need to do good works when one can't even say what they do as one.

Jesus told us exactly what do do here, let me explain;

Many people say that good works have no place in the Christian life. Jesus taught something different. He never said that good works earn salvation. Instead, He taught that they are the natural result of genuine faith.

A healthy tree bears good fruit because it is alive. In the same way, a person who truly believes in Christ will begin to produce the fruit of obedience, love, mercy, and service.

Jesus said:

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29, ASV)

Faith comes first.

Then He said:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15, ASV)

Love produces obedience.

Finally, He said:

Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.(Matthew 5:16, ASV) of course not to boast and done humbly.

Good works glorify God. They do not save us, but they show that our faith is real.

Here are some of the works Jesus taught His followers to do, along with practical examples found throughout the New Testament.

• Believe in Him and remain faithful.
• Repent and turn away from sin.
• Keep God's commandments.
• Love God with all your heart.
• Love your neighbor as yourself.
• Love one another as Christ loved us by showing patience, kindness, forgiveness, and encouragement.
• Love your enemies by praying for them and doing good to them.
• Forgive those who sin against you.
• Pray regularly and trust God.
• Fast with humility, not to be seen by others.
• Give generously to the poor and those in need.
• Feed the hungry.
• Give drink to the thirsty.
• Welcome strangers and show hospitality.
• Clothe those who lack basic necessities.
• Visit and care for the sick.
• Visit those in prison and encourage them.
• Show mercy to those who are suffering.
• Care for the weak, the lonely, and the forgotten, including widows and orphans.
• Make peace instead of creating division.
• Give without seeking recognition.
• Serve others with humility, following Jesus' example of washing His disciples' feet.
• Deny yourself and put Christ before your own desires.
• Bear good fruit through a life that reflects Christ.
• Teach others what Jesus commanded.
• Make disciples of all nations.
• Seek first the Kingdom of God.
• Do the will of the Father.
• Continue in Jesus' words.

These teachings are not difficult to understand. Every day we have opportunities to live them.

We can help someone who is hungry by sharing a meal. We can visit a sick friend or an elderly neighbor. We can donate clothing to someone who has none. We can welcome someone who feels alone. We can forgive someone who has hurt us. We can pray for those who persecute us instead of seeking revenge. We can encourage a discouraged believer. We can give quietly without expecting praise. We can share the words of Jesus with those who do not know Him.

These are the kinds of works Jesus spoke about.

The early believers lived this way. They shared with those in need, cared for the poor, welcomed strangers, visited those who suffered, and devoted themselves to the teachings of Christ. Their lives reflected the faith they professed.

Jesus explained why this happens:

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5, ASV)

A branch does not produce fruit to become part of the vine. It bears fruit because it is already connected to the vine.

Likewise, Jesus said:

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (Matthew 7:17, ASV)

The fruit does not make the tree alive. It simply reveals what kind of tree it is.

In the same way, good works do not save us. Jesus saves. Good works are the evidence that we truly believe Him, love Him, and are following Him.

A faith that never changes the way we live is not the faith Jesus described. Genuine faith bears fruit because Christ lives in the believer.

That is why Jesus could say:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15, ASV)

Faith leads to love. Love leads to obedience. Obedience produces good works. Those good works do not earn salvation, but they show that our faith is alive and that Christ is at work within us.

 

[Genez]

no just don't tell me I need to do good works when one can't even say what they do as one.

We do not have to know its a good work.
If you are growing and transforming in grace you will just do them without giving it a thought.

Like that passage I cited. They did not even know what they did was done as onto the Lord.

 

[2Christ]

We do not have to know its a good work.
If you are growing and transforming in grace you will just do them without giving it a thought.

Like that passage I cited. They did not even know what they did was done as onto the Lord.

Genez the Holy spirit is with you I know this!

Blessings!

 

[CS1]

(this a true story)

After work, at night, I was walking back to my apartment from the garage I where had parked my car.

As I rounded the path using my flashlight, in a normally darkened area I saw a pile of dog poop.
It blended right in with the twigs and stuff on the ground.
Without the flashlight helping me I would have easily stepped in it.
I walked around it.

As I was walking down the hill towards my apartment a thought quietly entered my mind.

Go back and clear it away.
I searched for a branch on the ground and preceded to push the stuff off the path.
It was a little difficult to work with.

As simple as that task seemed to be?
It was a good work.

Even a cup of cold water given counts in God's Word.

Then I heard a thought.

"You did not go looking for a good work."
The good work came to you.

Grace and peace ...

So the works that will be tried by fire which a "works is represented by:

hay, wood, stubble, precious stone Gold and Silver.

Your work, of removal of Dog crap, is it? Wow !!! how profound.

You can mock and scoff my question which you are doing and that's fine. But know that doing so, doesn't make you a person like me and may be others would seek for biblical teaching on the context of biblical works that God accepts.

 

[CS1]

Jesus told us exactly what do do here, let me explain;

Many people say that good works have no place in the Christian life. Jesus taught something different. He never said that good works earn salvation. Instead, He taught that they are the natural result of genuine faith.

A healthy tree bears good fruit because it is alive. In the same way, a person who truly believes in Christ will begin to produce the fruit of obedience, love, mercy, and service.

Jesus said:

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29, ASV)

Faith comes first.

Then He said:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15, ASV)

Love produces obedience.

Finally, He said:

Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.(Matthew 5:16, ASV) of course not to boast and done humbly.

Good works glorify God. They do not save us, but they show that our faith is real.

Here are some of the works Jesus taught His followers to do, along with practical examples found throughout the New Testament.

• Believe in Him and remain faithful.
• Repent and turn away from sin.
• Keep God's commandments.
• Love God with all your heart.
• Love your neighbor as yourself.
• Love one another as Christ loved us by showing patience, kindness, forgiveness, and encouragement.
• Love your enemies by praying for them and doing good to them.
• Forgive those who sin against you.
• Pray regularly and trust God.
• Fast with humility, not to be seen by others.
• Give generously to the poor and those in need.
• Feed the hungry.
• Give drink to the thirsty.
• Welcome strangers and show hospitality.
• Clothe those who lack basic necessities.
• Visit and care for the sick.
• Visit those in prison and encourage them.
• Show mercy to those who are suffering.
• Care for the weak, the lonely, and the forgotten, including widows and orphans.
• Make peace instead of creating division.
• Give without seeking recognition.
• Serve others with humility, following Jesus' example of washing His disciples' feet.
• Deny yourself and put Christ before your own desires.
• Bear good fruit through a life that reflects Christ.
• Teach others what Jesus commanded.
• Make disciples of all nations.
• Seek first the Kingdom of God.
• Do the will of the Father.
• Continue in Jesus' words.

These teachings are not difficult to understand. Every day we have opportunities to live them.

We can help someone who is hungry by sharing a meal. We can visit a sick friend or an elderly neighbor. We can donate clothing to someone who has none. We can welcome someone who feels alone. We can forgive someone who has hurt us. We can pray for those who persecute us instead of seeking revenge. We can encourage a discouraged believer. We can give quietly without expecting praise. We can share the words of Jesus with those who do not know Him.

These are the kinds of works Jesus spoke about.

The early believers lived this way. They shared with those in need, cared for the poor, welcomed strangers, visited those who suffered, and devoted themselves to the teachings of Christ. Their lives reflected the faith they professed.

Jesus explained why this happens:

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5, ASV)

A branch does not produce fruit to become part of the vine. It bears fruit because it is already connected to the vine.

Likewise, Jesus said:

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (Matthew 7:17, ASV)

The fruit does not make the tree alive. It simply reveals what kind of tree it is.

In the same way, good works do not save us. Jesus saves. Good works are the evidence that we truly believe Him, love Him, and are following Him.

A faith that never changes the way we live is not the faith Jesus described. Genuine faith bears fruit because Christ lives in the believer.

That is why Jesus could say:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15, ASV)

Faith leads to love. Love leads to obedience. Obedience produces good works. Those good works do not earn salvation, but they show that our faith is alive and that Christ is at work within us.

very long and first off, I never said, "that good works have no place in the Christian life." That is assumed.

The relationship I have in Christ Produces an action that is known as "works unto the Lord."

As we are in the sanctification process and growing i the grace and knowledge of God our action become more like HIM and less like us. Jesus said the "works that I do you shall do also and more of them because I go to the Father.
IF you study the word "Works" you will see is ergon from the Greek which is businesses Matthew 5:16
dynamis which Jesus uses in Matthew 7:22

the powerful work we are to do Business(ergon) of God is what we are to do. To be salt and light is our Work. To speak truth in Love is our work. To Proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ is our work. To Love God with all is our work aka our business our desire our motivation , our ability to please God. The work is others over self. That is it. many ways to do so.

 

[Genez]

So the works that will be tried by fire which a "works is represented by:

hay, wood, stubble, precious stone Gold and Silver.

Your work, of removal of Dog crap, is it? Wow !!! how profound.

You can mock and scoff my question which you are doing and that's fine. But know that doing so, doesn't make you a person like me and may be others would seek for biblical teaching on the context of biblical works that God accepts.

What was motivating the work becomes the essence of the work.

But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, ​

for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. ​

People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7​

.......

 

[CS1]

What was motivating the work becomes the essence of the work.

But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, ​

for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. ​

People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7​

.......

Jesus said the work I do you Shall do also and greater ones because I go to my Father. The context of Samuel was He looking at the outwardly of the man to say this is the next King . God look at the heart. So your works can be done in a legalistic way or carnally and The Lord will say to you " I never knew you."

 

[Genez]

Jesus said the work I do you Shall do also and greater ones because I go to my Father. The context of Samuel was He looking at the outwardly of the man to say this is the next King . God look at the heart. So your works can be done in a legalistic way or carnally and The Lord will say to you " I never knew you."

Who was He speaking to?

He said that specifically to the future Apostles.
And, they did fantastic works once the church age began.

But...

Jesus saw this work just as an important as well.

And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, ​

truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.” Matthew 10:42​

........

 

[CS1]

Who was He speaking to?

He said that specifically to the future Apostles.
And, they did fantastic works once the church age began.

But...

Jesus saw this work just as an important as well.

And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, ​

truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.” Matthew 10:42​

........

yes he was speaking to them and they taught others to do the same did they not? Or was the book of Acts not done by the early church?

Stephen was not an apostle, Ananias was not and Barnabas. many more who were not yet did mighty works of God .
You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel”

 

[Mem]

(this a true story)

After work, at night, I was walking back to my apartment from the garage I where had parked my car.

As I rounded the path using my flashlight, in a normally darkened area I saw a pile of dog poop.
It blended right in with the twigs and stuff on the ground.
Without the flashlight helping me I would have easily stepped in it.
I walked around it.

As I was walking down the hill towards my apartment a thought quietly entered my mind.

Go back and clear it away.
I searched for a branch on the ground and preceded to push the stuff off the path.
It was a little difficult to work with.

As simple as that task seemed to be?
It was a good work.

Even a cup of cold water given counts in God's Word.

Then I heard a thought.

"You did not go looking for a good work."
The good work came to you.

Grace and peace ...

I'll never look at Ep 2:10 the same ever again!

Seriously though, no one but God would've ever known that you did them such a courtesy and kindness (except maybe from the smear trail you might've left behind if they stopped to take a closer look).

 

[Genez]

yes he was speaking to them and they taught others to do the same did they not?

Then you should be able to show me in Scripture how that was to be so.
I do not know of any other, than his disciples (and Paul) whom Jesus gave such a promise.

 

[CS1]

Then you should be able to show me in Scripture how that was to be so.
I do not know of any other, than his disciples (and Paul) whom Jesus gave such a promise.

Very simple verses I am shocked you did not know it MATTHEW 28:19-20


19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

what did Jesus command the Apostles to do? The works HE did, they were to do also.

The idea that only the apostles were to works surely would not have taken them to the end of age would it?

 

[Gideon300]

yes he was speaking to them and they taught others to do the same did they not? Or was the book of Acts not done by the early church?

Stephen was not an apostle, Ananias was not and Barnabas. many more who were not yet did mighty works of God .
You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel”

Barnabus was as much an apostle as Paul.

 

[2Christ]

it seems to me one who claims to do the work of the Lord should know what it is they do.

what about you what is it you do as good works if you do any?