I am sure cc people are mature enough to handle discussion, and not run it into argumentAnd, for as long as it remains 'discussion' (not argument), it can get even more interesting...
.Daniel's 1260 vs. 1290 vs. 1335 vs. 2300 Days
- Thread starter Researcher
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You are hopelessly confused.
And utterly wrong.
[Luk 21:24-27 KJV]
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
CHURCH AGE GAP
THEN
END TIMES 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
And, this is not just $0.02 worth - it is $2.00 worth. Very true. And, much discernment is necessary. I agree.
We can only hope so. But, it does not always seem to go that way...I am sure cc people are mature enough to handle discussion, and not run it into argument
My statement was directed "to the crowd" as a general reminder.
Nope - that is your assumption - I never claimed any such of a thing.
The 'great tribulation' that Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:21 has not [yet] ended. We are in it now. The worst is yet to come.
We know it has not ended because of the very fact that the things referred to in that passage (following) have not occurred.
We know that it has started because of what is said in the passage - because, the things referred to have actually occurred.
Every verse in the Bible teaches that the abomination was the Crucifixion. I have shown plenty of proof of that already using actual verses and videos from other Witnesses. The desolation came later in 70 AD. Jesus gave everyone (that understood) plenty of time to prepare, move away from Jerusalem and reestablish their lives. Again, I have proven that using verses, not hearsay.
You have yet to prove what you believe using actual verses. Do a verse-by-verse interpretation of Daniel 11 as I have and you will discover your theory does not work.
Jesus made it very clear what was to occur:
That was the moment the 70 AD desolation was decreed. So yes, there still needed to be a fulfilment of this old prophecy from Daniel.
I am trying my best to understand your argument; however, you have made too many assumptions with no proof to back them up.
Again, you have yet to prove that with Scripture.
Agreed.
I took a look at your thread and found a few mistakes right off the bat.
Exhibit A:
That is just an opinion. You provided no Scripture to back it up. In fact, no one has. There are literally zero verses in the Bible to support any of that. All you did was take other people's word for it. In this case, you took the tradition of Jewish interpretation over what the Bible actually says.
Exhibit-B:
That is a stretch and exaggeration. Jerusalem was not desolated during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Not even close.
Jesus gave us the definition of what desolation means here:
You want Olivet Discourse? There you go. You missed the bolded part apparently. Antiochus IV Epiphanes simply didn't do that:
Exhibit-C:
And there is where you really jumped the shark, lol. A "Second Abomination of Desolation" is exactly what you are trying to get everyone to believe. Talk about 'mental gymnastics'. Didn't you say somewhere in this thread that prophecy should be straightforward, simple and easy to understand? You definitely deviated from that. I hate to say it, but you listened to 'tradition' rather than Scripture.
Once again, I challenge you and everyone here to do a verse-by-verse interpretation of Daniel 11 and post the relevant parts here as I have. You will see that there is only one way to interpret it to actually match history. Please note that there is a Spirit at work that is doing its best to keep folks from going down this rabbit hole. Just realize that you will be attacked as I have if you keep going in this direction. This is not an exaggeration.
I do not 'depend' on the opinions of others; I consider them. Unlike so many Christians, I even listen to what my critics have to say.
No. The GT is a peculiar assault of the little horn beast king upon ISRAEL ALONE.
It is the 70th week of Daniel. The last 3.5 years of which is directed upon "thy people" ethnic national Israel and "thy holy city" Jerusalem.
And IMMEDIATELY AFTER the 70th week (yet future) this happens.....
Mat 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And all of the OT prophecies pertaining to this DOTL event come to pass.
And you.....are wrong. Again.
You always have been wrong, and always will be until you grasp what these passages are saying.
After you have been here awhile, you will better understand why the 'average' reaction to your statement might be something like:I am sure cc people are mature enough to handle discussion, and not run it into argument
("Yeah - right!")
No - you are unwilling to believe that Matthew 24:15-20 / Mark 13:14-18 / Luke 21:20-23a actually became fulfilled circa 70 A.D.
Exactly! And, we are in those times now - which will not end until Jesus returns.
There is no church age gap. The time span of the 70 weeks of Daniel were 100% ended, fulfilled, and finished in 34 A.D.
These things are yet future - after the end of the 'great tribulation' that Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:21 - which we are in now - which has yet to reach its end.
Your preposterous theories have all been conclusively debunked.
Here is more irrefutable proof.
If you need help with the kindergarten level math let me know.....
[Rev 11:2 ESV] 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.
[Rev 11:3 ESV] 3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."
[Rev 11:9, 11 KJV]
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. ...
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Unless someone can show me how it is that the Second Coming of Christ occurred sometime between the events of circa 70 A.D. and now...???So the great tribulation lasts 2000 years and on going? The entire world?
It is unmistakable that Matthew 24:15-20 / Mark 13:14-18 / Luke 21:20-23a were fulfilled in the events of circa 70 A.D.; therefore, as per Matthew 24:21 / Mark 13:19 / Luke 21:23b, the 'great tribulation' began at that time during/after those events.
Does what is described in Luke 21:24 sound like a short period of time or a long one?
Do all of you realize that Matthew 24:23-26 / Mark 13:21-23 are referring to things happening during the 'great tribulation' that Jesus referred to?
Does this description sound like it occurs over a short period of time or a long one?
I have yet to see any evidence of occurrence that would suggest that the 'great tribulation' has ended.
You do not think that @GaryA or @Researcher have any realistic grasp on the actual (and obvious) reality of these Olivet discourse passages?
Neither do I.
Nor do they understand how Daniel, Revelation and the prophets integrate seamlessly into what I have expounded upon on this thread.
Bombastic cluelessness abounds though, that much is true.
Rev 11:1-13 is parenthetical and not attached to the trumpets sequence.
Nor is Rev 10.
Rev 9 is the 5th and 6th woe trumpets.
Time to level up and get it right buddy.
I'm not sure if I did any interpretations of one of the most controversial set of verses in the entire Bible:
I see two interpretations that are often argued:
Thus, we have:
The overall interpretation would be that the "people belonging to the Early Roman Empire" will destroy Jerusalem and Herod's Temple in 70 AD. Yep, that works perfectly.
If we interpret the 'prince that shall come' as Jesus, the overall result is the same. The "people living during the times of Jesus" will destroy Jerusalem and Herod's Temple in 70 AD. Yep, that also works perfectly.
Next verse please:
You're welcome.
| Daniel 9:26 - And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. |
I see two interpretations that are often argued:
- Prince that shall come = Good Guy
- Prince that shall come = Bad Guy
Thus, we have:
- Prince of Persia (Daniel 10:20)
- Prince of Grecia (Daniel 10:20)
- Prince of Rome <- Next logical successor
The overall interpretation would be that the "people belonging to the Early Roman Empire" will destroy Jerusalem and Herod's Temple in 70 AD. Yep, that works perfectly.
If we interpret the 'prince that shall come' as Jesus, the overall result is the same. The "people living during the times of Jesus" will destroy Jerusalem and Herod's Temple in 70 AD. Yep, that also works perfectly.
Next verse please:
| Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. |
- He shall confirm the Covenant = Jesus confirming the New Covenant (obviously)
- Sacrifice and oblation to cease = The Crucifixion made the daily sacrifice obsolete as prophesied many times
- Overspreading of abominations = The Crucifixion was the Abomination of Desolation
- He shall make it desolate = The Crucifixion was the last straw that caused God to destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD
- Even until the consummation = Jesus made it clear that Jerusalem will become desolate because they rejected him
- Reference Verses: Daniel 8:11, Daniel 8:12, Daniel 8:13, Daniel 11:31, Daniel 12:11
You're welcome.
[Dan 9:27 KJV] 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
What covenant? With whom? When did this happen?
And BTW, a contiguous 70 weeks definitely doesn't work. No matter how you pack the sausage.
