Harvesting of the Earth

[Omegatime]

Feeding of the 4 & 5 Thousand--Miracle of Multiplication ------------------------Part 1

Lord does nothing without foretelling his servants the future. Take Malachi 4:2 for example.
But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings ( or rays ). You shall go forth leaping like calves from the stall (grave).

I see this scripture as being meant for the Hebrews and telling of a future resurrection. On that Passover weekend I also see a time element being spoken. Notice the word sun and not son. Not an error in translation; Lord was saying the sun being made on the fourth day, predicted his entry and coming into Jerusalem on that Passover after 4000 years, also the revolution of the year.

Parables and stories are there to alert us things which are shortly coming to pass and for me none is greater than the story of the feeding of the 4 and 5 thousand.

“Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18 Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? And do you not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?”

They said to him, “Twelve.” 20 “And the seven for the four thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?” And they said to him, “Seven.” 21 And he said to them, “Do you not yet understand?” Mark 8

What a question? Do you not understand? Well, first the baskets. From the Greek manuscripts we see a portent concering the baskets. The basket used to feed the 5000 was a kophino, and the basket used to feed the 4000 was a spuris. This holds true in all 4 gospels whenever the baskets are mentioned, as well in the book of Acts. The kophino basket used to feed the 5000 was jewish because when the people followed Jesus across Lake Galilie he was asked questions only a jew was asked, such as, " Our ancestors ate manna in the wilderness

As for the basket used to feed the 4000, Jesus had left the area of Tyre and Sidon in Lebanon and approached the area of Decapolis. Decapolis was a group of ten cities given to the Greeks for their assistance during the times of conquering the territory. When Apostle Paul was fleeing Damascus, he was let down over the wall in a spuris basket--

-A Gentile basket in a Gentile city. So we can easily say the kophino basket used to feed the 5000 was jewish and the spuris basket jused to feed the 4000 was Gentile. Strongs Concordance for kophino is #2894 and for spuris #4711.

 

[Omegatime]

Miracle of Multiplication----------------Part 2


Now to the feeding of the 4 & 5 thousand. If the Lord had wanted,He could have made it come out to the very crumb as to what was needed to feed the multitude. The miracle was the multiplication of food and we will feed them just as Jesus did! The jews were fed with 5 loaves and 2 fish, and the gentiles with 7 loaves and a few (2) fish.

Feeding of the 5000
5 loaves times 2 fish = 10
5000 divided by 10 = 500 ( Lord divided it among the 5000)
500 times 12 baskets left over = 6000 ( Blessings multiplied)
6000 years

For in so many days the world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. Irenaeus, taught by Polycarp a hearer of Apostle John

Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, He finished in six days. This implies that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifies, saying, Behold, today will be as a thousand years. Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished.

And He rested on the seventh day. This means: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Barnabas--named an apostle in Acts 14

Feeding of the 4000
7 loaves times 2 fish = 14
4000 divided by 14 = 285.7143
Blessing left over are multiplied
7 baskets left over times 285.7143 =2000
2000 years
This is the number of years till his return. This time is called--The time of the gentiles, all are gentiles in this story of the 4000..

 

[lrs68]

I must have misunderstood the context of what you were saying.
When you mentioned "remnant" I thought of the remnant of Paul's kinsmen in Romans 11.
There is nothing about any nation state in that chapter, only that this remnant was reserved by God to become Christians.

Regarding the modern state of Israel, I do not see the need to equate every political development with prophesy.
Removing the local inhabitants from their homes is just pure crime.
White Christians suffer from un-Biblical racism towards Arabs, and much of the insanity that has happened there is directly fueled by religious extremism in the name of Jesus.
The ancient ancestry claim makes no sense either.
The people who are driven out are not first tested for Jacobs DNA, and the new occupants are not either.
If the original occupant has 2% of Jacob's DNA and the newcomer has 4%, the newcomer is not required to pay a 50% share.

No single unfaithful person of any race EVER inherited the unconditional Abrahanic promises.
The promises were made to one man and his faithful seed.
Abraham's seed share Abraham's faith and are in Christ.
All the promises that were everlasting are fulfilled in the heavenly kingdom, not on this earth.

Honestly, if you read Chronicles and go through the list of kings many will end with and did wrong before God. So their politics weren't prophecy as well. God was merely judging many based off their relationship to God. So nothing new then and now. Same ole same ole.

 

[Beekeeper]

Miracle of Multiplication----------------Part 2


Now to the feeding of the 4 & 5 thousand. If the Lord had wanted,He could have made it come out to the very crumb as to what was needed to feed the multitude. The miracle was the multiplication of food and we will feed them just as Jesus did! The jews were fed with 5 loaves and 2 fish, and the gentiles with 7 loaves and a few (2) fish.

Feeding of the 5000
5 loaves times 2 fish = 10
5000 divided by 10 = 500 ( Lord divided it among the 5000)
500 times 12 baskets left over = 6000 ( Blessings multiplied)
6000 years

For in so many days the world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. Irenaeus, taught by Polycarp a hearer of Apostle John

Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, He finished in six days. This implies that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifies, saying, Behold, today will be as a thousand years. Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished.

And He rested on the seventh day. This means: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Barnabas--named an apostle in Acts 14

Feeding of the 4000
7 loaves times 2 fish = 14
4000 divided by 14 = 285.7143
Blessing left over are multiplied
7 baskets left over times 285.7143 =2000
2000 years
This is the number of years till his return. This time is called--The time of the gentiles, all are gentiles in this story of the 4000..

 

[Beekeeper]

Miracle of Multiplication----------------Part 2


Now to the feeding of the 4 & 5 thousand. If the Lord had wanted,He could have made it come out to the very crumb as to what was needed to feed the multitude. The miracle was the multiplication of food and we will feed them just as Jesus did! The jews were fed with 5 loaves and 2 fish, and the gentiles with 7 loaves and a few (2) fish.

Feeding of the 5000
5 loaves times 2 fish = 10
5000 divided by 10 = 500 ( Lord divided it among the 5000)
500 times 12 baskets left over = 6000 ( Blessings multiplied)
6000 years

For in so many days the world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. Irenaeus, taught by Polycarp a hearer of Apostle John

Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, He finished in six days. This implies that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifies, saying, Behold, today will be as a thousand years. Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished.

And He rested on the seventh day. This means: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Barnabas--named an apostle in Acts 14

Feeding of the 4000
7 loaves times 2 fish = 14
4000 divided by 14 = 285.7143
Blessing left over are multiplied
7 baskets left over times 285.7143 =2000
2000 years
This is the number of years till his return. This time is called--The time of the gentiles, all are gentiles in this story of the 4000..

Which ever day you have worked out that the Lord will return, we can know with certainty that He will not return on that particular day.

Luke 12:40 for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

 

[Omegatime]

Which ever day you have worked out that the Lord will return, we can know with certainty that He will not return on that particular day.

Luke 12:40 for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

I do not know the day but I am saying a resurrection is set for end of 6000 years

 

[2Christ]

As I recall, the discussion about the seven churches allegedly being Gentile churches, as is believed by most prophecy/eschatology watch groups and individuals, that leads to creating problems in other areas of scripture, key among them being that were those truly Gentile churches, they also must be subject to the Mosaic Law given that John was a minister of the Kingdom Gospel only to Israel, and his instructions to them are directly tied to the beliefs of the believing Jews in Jerusalem who were zealous for the Law. I'm saying all this on this basis:

Galatians 2:8-9
8 For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

It floors me as to how easily my colleagues and the pastorates out there completely ignore, or transliterate, this key division between audience assigned to Paul and that to the twelve. So, had John violated the assigned audience to whom he was to minister, then he would have made himself no better than the Judaizers who went to the churches under Paul's ministry preaching zeal for the Law, which was the reason for Paul's journey to Jerusalem in Acts 15 to deal with this problem that arose from the gospel ministries crossing over into the other, thus confusing those under Paul's ministry to the point that he demands of them an answer as to who had "bewitched" them with teachings of zeal for the Law.

Now, honoring your request as to the seven churches addressed in Revelation, please consider this...now that I've getting better at the bulleted and hyphened inputs into this forum formatting language.

The “mosaic Law” connection comes through by way of the explicit OT/Israel commandments language and themes that the seven letters repeatedly echo—especially in how Jesus calls churches to repent (turn back), avoid specific sins, and obey God’s covenant standards. The clearest “pointing statements” are:

• Ephesus (Rev 2:4–6): “You have left your first love… Remember… Repent” (law/covenant back to God) and the call to hate/avoid certain practices (“works of the Nicolaitans,” Rev 2:6), which parallels Torah-style “turn from” commands.
• Pergamum (Rev 2:14–16): the strongest Torah echo—rebuking tolerance of idolatry and sexual immorality linked to “Balaam” and “Balak” (Rev 2:14). Those narratives function as warnings against covenant of Law violation, like classic covenant-curse patterns in Israel’s law tradition.
• Thyatira (Rev 2:20–23): condemns “Jezebel” and her teaching, calling followers to “commit adultery and eat food sacrificed to idols” (Rev 2:20). Jesus then promises judgment unless they “repent” (Rev 2:21–22)—again tracking Torah’s combination of idolatry + sexual immorality as covenant breach.
• Sardis (Rev 3:1–6): “Remember… keep it” and “repent” (Rev 3:3). The emphasis is covenant fidelity—staying “unstained/clean” like priestly purity language (cf. “not defiled” garments, Rev 3:4–5).
• Laodicea (Rev 3:16–19): warns against lukewarmness and calls for “zeal and… repent” (Rev 3:19). This is covenant discipline language: God corrects those he loves, which matches the Torah theme of divine instruction/discipline.

And across all seven letters, the “mosaic Law” pointer is built into the repeated structure:

• “Repent” (turn back from covenant breach)
• specific behaviors named as sins to Torah-following peoples that were not instructed toward the Gentiles under Paul's ministry
• promise of reward to the faithful (obedience/covenant loyalty framework)

So, when one looks for explicit language that brings the letters to the seven churches under indictment of the Law, it's not there because it wasn't necessary for John to have delineated that in an express manner to those who were well versed in the Law and the scriptures they were raised with throughout their lives...other than the Gentile proselytes. Modern Torah keepers assume the Gentile world attended synagogues to learn Torah, which is nowhere supported in scripture at all other than for the obscure mention of the existence of synagogues throughout the scattered areas where Jews dwelt.

Does that help?

MM

please MM. do not use AI it does not suit you you are better than this.

 

[Musicmaster]

please MM. do not use AI it does not suit you you are better than this.

When answering on the fly, with my limited typing and research time, I use AI for references with the targeted phraseology in the biblical texts, not for my own wording in paragraph form. The bulleted items are from AI findings, and the rest is my writing, so I am indeed guilty of utilizing some of AI input for references, and even that material I still filter.

Just a tool, not a guide given that I filter what is spit out from cornputers.

MM

 

[2Christ]

When answering on the fly, with my limited typing and research time, I use AI for references with the targeted phraseology in the biblical texts, not for my own wording in paragraph form. The bulleted items are from AI findings, and the rest is my writing, so I am indeed guilty of utilizing some of AI input for references, and even that material I still filter.

Just a tool, not a guide given that I filter what is spit out from cornputers.

MM

just don't rely on it, it does make a lot of mistakes and does not and cannot understand spiritual matters

 

[cv5]

What is happening In Revelations 14:14

14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”

16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Verses 14-16 : Jesus Christ Himself engaging in His work of harvesting the wheat (final gleanings) of the tribulation saints.

Verses 17-20 : Another angel harvesting over-ripe grapes (the unrepentant and those who take the mark) for wrath judgements.

Rev 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev 14:20
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Those of verse 20 are the armies of the son of perdition, the anti-christ who are marching on Jerusalem.

 

[cv5]

All those who have died from the beginning of the church age to end of the Trumpet judgements in Revelations 14 will be resurrected on the Day of the Lord!

No. All those who receive the Lord Jesus for remission of sins during the Age of Grace, the Church age (both those who have already died and those still alive) are REMOVED from the earth by means of the harpazo BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes to pass.

The Day of the Lord commences........precisely at this point in time:

Rev 5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

And behold the now raptured Church proclaiming glory due the Redeemer.

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Churchgoer]

Through out scripture, we have 2 Adam. The 1st one sinned.
The last one is holy.

All the saved ones born from the last Adam, Jesus.

No division of ethnicity. No race split. Only 1 human race. Who is not of human race?

 

[Omegatime]

No. All those who receive the Lord Jesus for remission of sins during the Age of Grace, the Church age (both those who have already died and those still alive) are REMOVED from the earth by means of the harpazo BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes to pass.

The Day of the Lord commences........precisely at this point in time:

Rev 5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

And behold the now raptured Church proclaiming glory due the Redeemer.

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I based that statement from 1 Cor 5 which stated in Paul's day that the man would be saved in the Day of the Lord.

4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

 

[Omegatime]

Verses 14-16 : Jesus Christ Himself engaging in His work of harvesting the wheat (final gleanings) of the tribulation saints.

Verses 17-20 : Another angel harvesting over-ripe grapes (the unrepentant and those who take the mark) for wrath judgements.

Rev 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev 14:20
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Those of verse 20 are the armies of the son of perdition, the anti-christ who are marching on Jerusalem.

We will have to disagree

 

[Musicmaster]

just don't rely on it, it does make a lot of mistakes and does not and cannot understand spiritual matters

Oh, don't worry, my friend. I'm well aware of all search tools and the errors they make. That's why I selectively choose which references it brings up as to relevance. I don't trust commentaries of any sort either. Everything I post or publish I comb through as to what is consistent with scripture and what's doctrinally coherent in relation to scripture rather than traditions.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

No. All those who receive the Lord Jesus for remission of sins during the Age of Grace, the Church age (both those who have already died and those still alive) are REMOVED from the earth by means of the harpazo BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes to pass.

The Day of the Lord commences........precisely at this point in time:

Actually, that's questionable. In your thinking, what would downplay the potential for there being a gap of day, weeks, months or even years before the man of sin is revealed? We can't point to anything so far as I know that gives to us an absolute beginning in relation to the harpadzo. What are you thinking about this?

Rev 5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

And behold the now raptured Church proclaiming glory due the Redeemer.

How does that equate to the immediacy in this realm of time?

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

In my decades of studying and teaching theology, I have not ever run across any measure for the measure of time between the writing of something definite and the following "...and then..."

Thoughts?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I based that statement from 1 Cor 5 which stated in Paul's day that the man would be saved in the Day of the Lord.

4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Not many of my students have ever focused in on that particular context in 1 Cor. 5 in their homework nor their thesis. Glad to see you've taken on this task given that most don't. It speaks loud volumes about everlasting salvation from the point of faith-onward, but I never assigned this context in their studies because I wanted them all to accept the simpler, more profoundly obvious elements I want them to rely upon without having to dig too deeply to find and understand it. Plus, this offends many who like to think that my ancestors in ancient Israel, under the Mosaic Law, had no such enduring assurances under the Law. Many Gentiles today have not one clue as to how blessed we all are today in our being dead to that Law.

MM

 

[Churchgoer]

the only gentile today are the ones that reject Jesus!!!!

followers of Jesus are not gentiles.

Pagan means the ones that reject Jesus. They worship other gods.

 

[Musicmaster]

just don't rely on it, it does make a lot of mistakes and does not and cannot understand spiritual matters

Additionally, I continue to hear many talk about how AI is "getting smarter," which is just another deceptive lie among so many the world parades around as sound fact. It cannot and never will be able to reason apart from the governing mathematical equations that control the choice processes for information selection.

For example, I once tested a very large AI system for economic solutions to modern problems, and it pointed to socialistic moorings at every point, glamorizing complex, socialistic solutions for its answers to the economic woes in modern times from corporate and governmental greed.

AI is so stupid because the algorithms never include the fallenness of human nature. Mathematics simply cannot be constructed in such a way as to mimic true, genuine reasoning because it cannot include emotions as a part of the guiding thought paths for decision-making. It also cannot work from any basis of the spiritual. Again, mathematic algorithms simply have no way of expressing such depths of God's creations within us...obviously.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

the only gentile today are the ones that reject Jesus!!!!

followers of Jesus are not gentiles.

Pagan means the ones that reject Jesus. They worship other gods.

That's like saying there are also no males nor females today in this world. This sentiment is rooted in replacement theology, which is antisemitic at its very root.

Sorry, but your conclusion along this line is grossly flawed from the perspective of scripture. In this world, the distinctions still exist, although in Christ, for salvation, there are no distinctions given that His salvation is available to all irrespective of the existing distinctions.

MM