I agree that there are verses that establish the time frame for the onset of the last days. But none you shared definitely give an end to the period or establishes what last days refers to.
Good to see you on the site again. Hope you are well.
End of Days
- Thread starter OMC
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Good to see you on the site again. Hope you are well.
Yes, God has given progressive revelation — later books clarify, expand, and illuminate earlier ones — but progressive revelation never means earlier revelation was “less true,” only that it was less complete. The danger comes when people use progressive revelation to override or reinterpret earlier texts in ways the later revelation never actually authorizes. The New Testament fulfills the Old; it does not cancel it. The prophets anticipated realities that Christ and the apostles later explained, but the earlier words remain binding in their meaning because, as you rightly quoted, the Lord’s words do not pass away. Progressive revelation means God unfolds truth across history; it does not mean later revelation erases earlier promises, covenants, or prophecies.
All I'm saying is that while you have established a time frame for the onset of last days, you haven't shown from scripture it's ending. You quoted a verse that informs concerning how God and time are related, but not tied that principle to last days with scripture. I have shown from scripture that Jesus did return 1st century.
You’re right that I have shown from Scripture when the last days begin — the apostles place themselves inside that era — but the ending is not left open; Jesus Himself ties the end of the last days to His visible return, not to a hidden, first‑century event. Your assertion that “Jesus did return in the first century” is not demonstrated by the passages you’ve cited; it is asserted and then used to reinterpret every coming‑of‑Christ text through that lens. The apostles describe cosmic signs, global mourning, resurrection, trumpet, angels, gathering of the elect, destruction of the man of sin, and the appearing of the glory of the great God — none of which occurred in the first century. So the ending of the last days is not vague: it is the public, bodily, world‑shaking return of Christ, the one Jesus places after the tribulation and Paul places at the resurrection. Your system requires a first‑century ending; Scripture does not.
Your claim about Revelation 1:7 is bold but it simply does not match what the verse actually says.
Revelation 1:7 declares a public, global, visible appearing of Christ — “every eye shall see Him,” including “they which pierced Him,” and “all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.”
Nothing in the first century remotely fits that description: no global visibility, no worldwide mourning, no resurrection, no cosmic signs, no gathering of the elect, no destruction of the man of sin.
You are treating Revelation 1:7 as if it says “Jesus returned secretly in the first century,” but the verse says the exact opposite — it describes the open, universal, final appearing of Christ. The text itself denies the very interpretation you’re trying to defend.
You presume it didn't happen because you place restrictions on it. You say it must be universal. The verse doesn't state that. If I say that an event occurred and everyone saw it, do I mean everyone to the last person saw it? Or everyone there witnessed it? The verse doesn't say it is a final return. You impose this upon the text. The reverse does say open. You say it didn't occur because you know of no such event. Yet scripture says it was going to occur, and in the 1st century.
You have a choice: you can accept the testimony of scripture, or your own logic.
Your objection sounds forceful but it collapses the very thing Revelation 1:7 is describing.
You say I “presume it didn’t happen” because I “place restrictions on it,” but I’m not imposing anything — I’m reading the text you quoted.
The verse says “every eye shall see Him” and “all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.”
That is not “everyone present at a local event”; that is a stock prophetic formula for global visibility and worldwide response — the same language used in Zechariah 12, Matthew 24, and Revelation 6.
You say “the verse doesn’t say it’s final,” but it uses the same cosmic, universal, judgment‑day vocabulary that every other return passage uses.
You say “Scripture says it was going to occur in the 1st century,” but no first‑century event matches the description: no global mourning, no universal visibility, no cosmic signs, no resurrection, no trumpet, no angels, no gathering of the elect.
You’re not accepting Scripture’s testimony; you’re shrinking the scope of the words so they fit a first‑century fulfillment.
The choice isn’t between Scripture and logic — it’s between letting the text mean what it says or redefining its terms to fit a system.
Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus Christ as He judges His covenant people, confronts the nations, destroys all evil powers, vindicates His saints, and brings the story of Scripture to its climax by establishing His kingdom and ushering in the new creation.
Thanks. This is your mindset as you consider scripture concerning end times. You have come to this conclusion so any discussion concerning end times and last days will inevitably come from this perspective.
From my perspective, the book of Revelation concerns itself with the ending of a covenant, covenant sanctions being exercised on those who failed to meet the requirements of the covenant, and a new covenant put in place to move forward.
You’ve actually named the right category — covenant — but then you shrink Revelation into a covenant‑termination document instead of letting the text show you the full covenant drama.
Yes, Revelation is saturated with covenant structure: blessings and curses (Deut 28), witnesses (Deut 19), lawsuit imagery (Isa 1), plagues (Exod 7–12), temple scenes, martyr‑testimony, and covenant sanctions.
But the book is not merely “the ending of a covenant”; it is the unveiling of Jesus as He judges covenant breakers, vindicates covenant keepers, confronts the nations, destroys evil powers, and inaugurates the new creation.
The old covenant’s collapse is one layer (Rev 2–3, 11), but the book moves far beyond that: global judgment (Rev 6), cosmic conflict (Rev 12–14), the fall of world‑Babylon (Rev 17–18), the visible return of Christ (Rev 19), final judgment (Rev 20), and the new heavens and new earth (Rev 21–22).
Your perspective catches the covenant frame but misses the scale — Revelation is not just covenant termination; it is covenant consummation, covenant judgment, covenant renewal, and covenant kingdom.
I’ve had to outline all 66 books of the Bible throughout my education, but I’ve only been here for about a week, I think.