Replacement theology? Yes or No.
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It is always amazing (and shocking) to me to hear the preterists, post-tribbers, mid-tribbers and historicists prattle on, all the while being biblically illiterate. Are they wrong? Yep, they are definitely wrong.
And the dispensationalist futurist premillennialists are always right.
And I can see how @OMC has not matriculated beyond mere words on paper to rightly understand the essential BIBLICAL PATTERNS that permeate Scripture, and how these PATTERNS must be first understood before one can rightly HARMONIZE the entire Bible cover to cover.....
Removal / Translation Types
Enoch
Taken by God before the Flood; clear picture of removal prior to judgment.
Elijah
Caught up into heaven without death; another strong translation type.
Daniel
Not present in Daniel 3; absent while the fiery judgment takes place.
Rahab
Identified beforehand and preserved when Jericho falls; distinguished from those under wrath.
Asenath
Gentile bride given to Joseph before the famine; union before global distress.
Ruth
Redeemed and brought into covenant blessing prior to kingdom establishment.
Rebekah
Called out and united with Isaac before covenant continuation unfolds.
Zipporah
Joined to Moses before the judgments on Egypt.
Abigail
Aligns with David before he assumes kingship and executes judgment.
Joseph
Elevated before the famine; placed above and ahead of the coming crisis.
Esther
Installed as queen prior to the destruction decree; positioned for deliverance.
John the Apostle
“Come up here” (Rev 4:1) before the main sequence of judgments; often seen as a type of upward call before wrath unfolds.
Mary
Chosen vessel prior to the unfolding of redemption; set apart in advance.
Tight Summary
This refined list highlights four consistent “no-wrath” patterns:
Removed beforehand → Enoch, Elijah
Absent from the scene → Daniel
Marked and spared → Rahab
United to the redeemer before crisis → Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail
Positioned in advance → Joseph, Esther
Called upward before judgment → John
So in other words, it all depends on imaginative embellishments that do not respect the text.
Revelation 4:1 is a classical example.
Obviously nothing to do with "rapture" or resurrection.
John is taken to see a prophetic vision in heaven, and is able to write it down afterward.
This speaks of absolute desperation to force a particular model onto scripture, and an absence of reverence for scripture itself.
It reminds me of the attitude of people who are able to accept the Daniel 9 "gap" theory.
Your constant self promotion does very little to dispel these negative suspicions that I have about you.
It often seems that you are asking people to just trust you.
Spiritually minded people never put their trust in man
Jeremiah 17: 5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
Revelation 4:1 should be sufficient to show you that pretrib rapture is nuts, a spiritual vision of heaven is not teleportation into heaven, John wasn't going anywhere, he was stuck on the island of Patmos the whoel time.
The pre-trib rapture is undoubtedly one of the most well developed doctrines in all of the New Testament.
Biblically its boilerplate. Debunking the detractors is......effortless. They have no answer.
Rev 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Time? Your God is stuck somewhere in "time"? And cannot reveal to His servants thing that "must shortly come to pass"?
Rev 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
By the sounds of this, its a bummer to be you! And I won the wisdom and knowledge lottery.
Rev 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
This is sufficient to demonstrate that some people around here are in a lot of very deeeeep trouble.
Rev 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear (G191) the words of this prophecy, and keep (G5083) those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
The KJV translates Strong's G191 in the following manner: hear (418x), hearken (6x), give audience (3x), hearer (2x), miscellaneous (8x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
- to hear
- to attend to, consider what is or has been said
- to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
- to hear something
- to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
- to get by hearing learn
- a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
- to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
- to comprehend, to understand
The KJV translates Strong's G5083 in the following manner: keep (57x), reserve (8x), observe (4x), watch (2x), preserve (2x), keeper (1x), hold fast (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- to attend to carefully, take care of
- to guard
- metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is
- to observe
- to reserve: to undergo something
The calling card of the rapture deniers: abject failure to grasp the intended flow time predicated upon how the relevant passages are fitted into the context of the chapters.
Of course John 4:1 is NOT a bodily rapture event per se. Of course it is a vision of things that are soon coming to pass.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
However it is TYPOLOGICAL and SYMBOLIC of the essential ***TIMING*** of the rapture framed by the CONTEXT.
See below how this time flow within the framework of the context is codified:
Chapters 2 and 3 - the Church Age.
Chapter 4 - Church Age has ended, rapture has now occurred (John 4:1 being the TIME marker), redeemed are now in heaven exalting their Lord and Savior.
Chapter 5 - post Church age, God the Son takes the scroll from the Father, the DOTL begins.
Chapter 6 thru 18 - the 70th week of Daniel tribulation sequence.
*********************************************************
One can only conclude that the pre-trib rapture deniers are not to be trusted to guard and reverence the truth of the Biblical account.
And what is worse, when sound exegesis is offered, they consistently repudiate it with extreme prejudice.
My dear, you are, simply stated, wrong. Biblically illiterate. In denial.
The truth is that the pre-trib rapture is impeccable doctrine, and no Scripture anywhere conflicts with this doctrine.
Nor does Rev. 7:14, 12:17.
You have an uphill battle. Or maybe not. Depending on your willingness to apprehend the truth.
No willingness no truth.
Both of these passages refer to the POST-RAPTURE environment, and these are TRIBULATION SAINT BELIEVERS (both Jew and gentile) who COME TO BELIEF as a result of the witnesses that God prepares and sends forth during this 70th week of Daniel tribulation phase.
Rev 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
************************************************************************************
And amazingly, demon armies from the pit are not enough to convince the majority to repent.
Worse, they actually worship the very demons that are destroying them.
Rev 9:18
By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
Rev 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.
Rev 9:20
But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk
I don’t believe the pre‑trib rapture is flawless doctrine, since Revelation’s tribulation saints don’t prove the church was taken away beforehand—they simply show believers enduring the very judgments Christ said His elect would face until He returns “after the tribulation.” That makes your view more of an assumption placed on the text than a truth drawn from it.
The mystery Bride Church is long gone, they have already been raptured before the Chapter 6 tribulation sequence commences.
And BEHOLD there they are, gathered around the throne in Chapter 5.
Rev 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
********************************************************************
Like I said: You are in willful denial of what God is clearly saying.
I disagree with the claim that the church is “long gone” in Revelation 5, as I believe those around the throne are the heavenly host praising the Lamb before any seal is opened, not a raptured church taken from the earth. I also reject the accusation of willful denial, since the pre‑trib framework is being applied to the text rather than derived from what John actually wrote.
Thats too bad. As your faith is so be it unto you.
Enjoy the trib.
As for me, I know without the slightest shadow of a doubt that I am exempt from THE 70th week of Daniel eschatology tribulation.
Lucky me huh?
Not by me. So speak for yourself.
Oh and BTW, I find it amazing (not really) that those who deny the impeccable certainty of latter day redemption of the Nation Israel are commonly the same ones who deny the impeccable certainty of the pre-trib harpazo.
A grim diagnosis to be sure....
Perhaps you need to review the 12 step Hebrew betrothal pattern that I earlier posted? You do realize that Jesus was intentionally following this pattern to perfection.....right?
And then Paul and John provide the finishing details of the final phases.
Or deny and ignore it. Your call....
Let the record show that @OMC
has denied the Biblically impeccable pre-trib rapture doctrine.
Rev 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Perhaps you need to review the 12 step Hebrew betrothal pattern that I earlier posted? You do realize that Jesus was intentionally following this pattern to perfection.....right?
And then Paul and John provide the finishing details of the final phases.
Or deny and ignore it. Your call....
The Hebrew betrothal pattern is fascinating, and I agree that Jesus clearly reflects the ancient Jewish marriage customs—the covenant, the bride price, the Father’s house being prepared, the Bridegroom’s arrival, and the final marriage feast.
These are rich with meaning, but I don’t think this typology sets the timeline for Revelation 4–6.
Typology serves as an illustration, not direct exposition, and John never uses the betrothal pattern to explain the throne room vision.
I can see how the pattern explains why Christ returns for His bride, but it doesn’t reveal when in relation to the seals this happens.
In Revelation 5, we see the Lamb receiving the scroll, the heavenly host praising Him, the elders representing the redeemed, and countless angels.
Still, there’s no statement that the whole church is raptured, that it’s in heaven, or that the seals follow the bride’s removal—those ideas come from the betrothal pattern, not the text itself.
I affirm Jesus perfectly fulfills the marriage imagery, but I deny it determines Revelation’s sequence, holding that doctrine must rest on explicit Scripture rather than patterns layered onto it.
I acknowledge that you’ve noted my rejection of the pre‑trib rapture, but I disagree that the verses you reference prove the church is already raptured in Revelation 5.
I see Revelation 1:6 as describing believers still on earth,
Revelation 3:10 as promising protection rather than removal, and
Revelation 5:9–10 as showing the heavenly host praising the Lamb before the seals are opened, not a church already taken from the earth.