And I've already explained to you that the "temple" that the Bible says the Antichrist sits in does not represent his human body. The only bodies who are temples for God are believers who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit and the Antichrist is NOT one of them.
Who is the restrainer?
- Thread starter Lovette
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And I've already explained to you that the "temple" that the Bible says the Antichrist sits in does not represent his human body. The only bodies who are temples for God are believers who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit and the Antichrist is NOT one of them.
And I've already explained to you that this temple will be desacrated by the Antichrist, probably through transhumanism techs. There is no sign of any third temple in Jerusalem.
Then you have to come up with another excuse for the temple described in great detail in Ezekiel, chapters 40 through 48 that don't match the first or second temples.
I've told you a hundred times - that temple is for the future millennial kingdom, after the Lord's return. Until then, the third temple is the Lord's body, which is the church.
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
Here is another data point to consider. In Romans 11, Paul likens the Abrahamic Covenant to a tree with branches. He says that the cultivated branches were broken off, but at the same time, wild olive branches were grafted on. He cautions the Gentile branches, exhorting them to remember that they were grafted on to the tree by faith. If they stop believing they will be cut off the tree. And if Israel should believe, they will be grafted back onto their own tree. I believe that not only is this a logical conclusion, it is prophetic. There will come a time when the Gentiles (generally speaking) will stop believing and at the same time (generally speaking) Israel will begin to believe. When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, the Day of the Lord will begin with the awakening of Israel.
It does to those that listen to Scholars who know how to study the Bible in depth and use exegesis.
I literally mentioned that several times in my post.
Folks in this thread are barking up the wrong tree. As I have been trying to show everyone here, the Restrainer has to do with restraining the womb. The Restrainer is the one preventing the Man of Sin from being born.
For those of you who are reading this, do yourself a favor and go to 58:00 in this video and listen...
Study this verse:
| Isaiah 66:9 - Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. |
Look at the word 'shut':
It is a word for 'restraining'... restraining the womb.
Maybe it's not Apollyon, but it definitely is some entity that has the Key of the Womb, i.e., the Pit.
It does to those that listen to Scholars who know how to study the Bible in depth and use exegesis.
I literally mentioned that several times in my post.
Folks in this thread are barking up the wrong tree. As I have been trying to show everyone here, the Restrainer has to do with restraining the womb. The Restrainer is the one preventing the Man of Sin from being born.
For those of you who are reading this, do yourself a favor and go to 58:00 in this video and listen...
Study this verse:
Isaiah 66:9 - Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Look at the word 'shut':
It is a word for 'restraining'... restraining the womb.
Maybe it's not Apollyon, but it definitely is some entity that has the Key of the Womb, i.e., the Pit.
Have you never looked up the interpretation of Isaiah 66:9 before?
Isaiah 66:9 is a declaration of God’s sovereignty and unwavering faithfulness to complete the redemptive work He initiates. Using the metaphor of childbirth, God poses rhetorical questions—"Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? Shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb?"—to emphatically affirm that He will not abandon His plans or hinder the fulfillment of His promises.
This verse serves as a divine assurance following the prophecy in Isaiah 66:8 of Zion’s sudden, miraculous restoration. It teaches that just as a mother cannot go into labor and not deliver a child, God is both the initiator and the finisher of all things, whether in the historical restoration of Israel, the spiritual renewal of individuals, or the ultimate establishment of the new heavens and new earth. The intimate address, "says your God," underscores a personal covenant relationship, assuring believers that His purposes are guaranteed by His character, not human performance.
I touched on it in post #138 "The restrainer is God’s sovereign timing,"
The clearest evidence that God is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2 is that Paul describes a force powerful enough to hold back Satan’s lawless one, continuous enough to restrain “now,” sovereign enough to be “taken out of the way,” and decisive enough that the moment the restraint ends, the man of lawlessness appears instantly—conditions no human, church, government, or angel can meet.
Scripture consistently teaches that God restrains evil (Gen 20:6; Ps 76:10; Job 1:12; 2:6), sets limits on Satan (Luke 22:31; Rev 20:1–3), and controls the timing of judgment (Acts 17:31).
Paul’s grammar shows the restrainer is not defeated or overpowered but removed by God’s own decision, meaning the restrainer must be God’s sovereign act of restraining. Every alternative collapses under the text; only God fits Paul’s description of the one who restrains evil until the appointed moment.
I personally side with the 7000 year theory. God's sovereign timing is the 5996th year since the creation week. Nobody knows exactly when that is, though, it's impossible to know.
Usually, when I am asked about a scriptural text, I do not rely on what I thought it meant last time I read it. I go back to the Greek or Hebrew text and interpret it from first principles of grammar, syntax and context.
Here is what I saw in 1 Thess. 2 today -
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(So, in Paul’s day, the day of Jesus’ return was not expected to be imminent.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(So, before that day there will a lot of Christians falling away from the Gospel and their allegiance to the Lord Jesus. And a sinful man will make himself known publicly.)
2Th 2:4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called a god, or that is worshipped; so that he as a god (hOs theon) is sitting in the divine temple (ton naon theou), showing himself that he is a god (theos).
(This sinful man will declare himself to be a god. "The divine temple”(definite article) probably refers to the church, the body of those professing belief in Christ. So, it sounds like he will declare himself to the church to be a god.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
("These things" would be what Paul has said in verses 1-4.)
2Th 2:6 And now ye know the one/the thing restraining (to katechon) for him/it to be revealed (eis auton apokalupthEnai) in his/its time.
(Who is the referent for auton? It could be the man of sin of v. 3 and 4, who will “be revealed" and "show himself"; or Christ of v. 1, whose coming is expected or Christ; or it could be the day of Christ of v. 2, which is being delayed and is “not at hand”. "The thing restraining” is doing so in order that “auton" be revealed in his/its time. If “auton” is Christ, or the day of Christ, something is delaying Jesus' coming back.
(To be continued)
Here is what I saw in 1 Thess. 2 today -
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(So, in Paul’s day, the day of Jesus’ return was not expected to be imminent.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(So, before that day there will a lot of Christians falling away from the Gospel and their allegiance to the Lord Jesus. And a sinful man will make himself known publicly.)
2Th 2:4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called a god, or that is worshipped; so that he as a god (hOs theon) is sitting in the divine temple (ton naon theou), showing himself that he is a god (theos).
(This sinful man will declare himself to be a god. "The divine temple”(definite article) probably refers to the church, the body of those professing belief in Christ. So, it sounds like he will declare himself to the church to be a god.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
("These things" would be what Paul has said in verses 1-4.)
2Th 2:6 And now ye know the one/the thing restraining (to katechon) for him/it to be revealed (eis auton apokalupthEnai) in his/its time.
(Who is the referent for auton? It could be the man of sin of v. 3 and 4, who will “be revealed" and "show himself"; or Christ of v. 1, whose coming is expected or Christ; or it could be the day of Christ of v. 2, which is being delayed and is “not at hand”. "The thing restraining” is doing so in order that “auton" be revealed in his/its time. If “auton” is Christ, or the day of Christ, something is delaying Jesus' coming back.
(To be continued)
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity (to mustErion anomias) is already working: only now restraining (kateChOn), until he/it be taken (heOs genEtai, aorist middle/deponent singular) out of the midst (ek mesou) .
(The mystery of lawlessness is already working within the church, restraining the day of Christ until the mystery of lawlessness is taken out of the midst of the church.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(The Lord’s coming is being delayed by the mystery of lawlessness at work in the church., slowing down the preaching of the gospel to every nation, which needs to happen before Jesus returns. The mystery of lawlessness will exit the church when the Wicked one is revealed or reveals himself. After the wicked one reveals himself, the Lord will destroy him at His coming, which must therefore be during that man of sin’s life-time.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(The man of sin reveals himself with power, signs and lying wonders. )
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(He will draw a large following, even attracting many to forsake Christ and the church. This sounds like the tares, planted by the devil in the Master’s field, being collected and bound together to be burned before the Lord of the Harvest gathers in the mature wheat from His field. They did nor receive the love of the truth so that they would be saved from this wicked one’s deception.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie (tOi pseudei):
(The lie is the wicked one’s doctrine that “If you live according to the flesh, you shall not surely die.”
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(Those church-goers who prefer the pleasures of the flesh rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to work through them to show Christ’s agapE love to mankind, will reject the truthful warnings of the two prophesying witnesses, and will turn on the straight-laced Jesus freaks and abandon the faithful believers to follow the son of lawlessness, and will find themselves barred from admission into the millennial age.
(The mystery of lawlessness is already working within the church, restraining the day of Christ until the mystery of lawlessness is taken out of the midst of the church.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(The Lord’s coming is being delayed by the mystery of lawlessness at work in the church., slowing down the preaching of the gospel to every nation, which needs to happen before Jesus returns. The mystery of lawlessness will exit the church when the Wicked one is revealed or reveals himself. After the wicked one reveals himself, the Lord will destroy him at His coming, which must therefore be during that man of sin’s life-time.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(The man of sin reveals himself with power, signs and lying wonders. )
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(He will draw a large following, even attracting many to forsake Christ and the church. This sounds like the tares, planted by the devil in the Master’s field, being collected and bound together to be burned before the Lord of the Harvest gathers in the mature wheat from His field. They did nor receive the love of the truth so that they would be saved from this wicked one’s deception.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie (tOi pseudei):
(The lie is the wicked one’s doctrine that “If you live according to the flesh, you shall not surely die.”
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(Those church-goers who prefer the pleasures of the flesh rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to work through them to show Christ’s agapE love to mankind, will reject the truthful warnings of the two prophesying witnesses, and will turn on the straight-laced Jesus freaks and abandon the faithful believers to follow the son of lawlessness, and will find themselves barred from admission into the millennial age.
May I engage with you on your interpretations? I am hoping if I ask I won't get slapped so hard.
With so many different interpretations of scripture and systems being imposed on it, it’s easy to see Christians falling away from the truth or twisting it, turning truth into a lie and lies into truth.