How do we testify to this word of the Lord?

[Godsgood]

But that is not what Jesus said to Thomas. He didn't say, "Because you have seen My power you have believed," but "Because you have seen Me you have believed."

Certainly when we come to Jesus we must do so humbly. We must recognise, as Thomas did, that He is Lord and God.

But nobody alive today has seen Jesus Christ physically. He is in heaven, seated at the right hand of His Father.

But nobody alive today has seen Jesus Christ physically. He is in heaven, seated at the right hand of His Father.

This is clear evidence that your understanding of God’s Word is limited to the literal and physical sense. Therefore, your understanding does not correspond to the truth.

Even based only on what you have read, that the Lord Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, you would already ask for mercy because your understanding conflicts with what the apostle John saw: that there is only one throne in heaven, not two.
REVELATION 4:2
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

 

[OMC]

But nobody alive today has seen Jesus Christ physically. He is in heaven, seated at the right hand of His Father.

This is clear evidence that your understanding of God’s Word is limited to the literal and physical sense. Therefore, your understanding does not correspond to the truth.

Even based only on what you have read, that the Lord Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, you would already ask for mercy because your understanding conflicts with what the apostle John saw: that there is only one throne in heaven, not two.
REVELATION 4:2
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The whole point of the conversation is those who believe in Jesus the why Thomas does without having had seen the physical appearance or the miracles he performed are blessed. To believe in something that eyes have not seen is faith indeed.

 

[Godsgood]

I would believe what God says rather than what other people say. How does your post answer mine? God's word, not other people, tells us that Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen Me you have believed." God's word does not say that Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen My power you have believed."

God's word, not other people, informs us where Jesus Christ is now:

NKJV Rom 8:34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

If Jesus is back in heaven, at the right hand of God, nobody alive today has seen Him physically.

I would believe what God says rather than what other people say. How does your post answer mine? God's word, not other people, tells us that Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen Me you have believed." God's word does not say that Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen My power you have believed."

What you are saying—that you would believe God—is not necessarily what is truly in your heart. The belief of the people described in John 20:29 is also similar to the belief you are expressing. That is also the understanding I hear being preached to people.

 

[DavidLamb]

But nobody alive today has seen Jesus Christ physically. He is in heaven, seated at the right hand of His Father.

This is clear evidence that your understanding of God’s Word is limited to the literal and physical sense. Therefore, your understanding does not correspond to the truth.

Even based only on what you have read, that the Lord Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, you would already ask for mercy because your understanding conflicts with what the apostle John saw: that there is only one throne in heaven, not two.
REVELATION 4:2
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

I ask you again, as I have several times, are you really trying to tell me that absolutely no part of God's word is literal truth? When the Bible says that Jesus ascended into heaven, and that He is now seated at His Father's right hand, do you believe that it really means something else?

Revelation 4:2 does not say that there are two thrones. It says that a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on it. So my understanding does not conflict with what the apostle John saw.

 

[Godsgood]

The whole point of the conversation is those who believe in Jesus the why Thomas does without having had seen the physical appearance or the miracles he performed are blessed. To believe in something that eyes have not seen is faith indeed.

Regarding Jesus, let us not forget that there are two Jesus figures: the true Jesus and the false Jesus.

The question is, which of these two Jesus figures did the people recognize that made them claim to be more blessed than Thomas? Whereas Thomas recognized the true Jesus.

 

[DavidLamb]

What you are saying—that you would believe God—is not necessarily what is truly in your heart. The belief of the people described in John 20:29 is also similar to the belief you are expressing. That is also the understanding I hear being preached to people.

So are you accusing me of lying now, posting things that are not really in my heart? Also, who do you mean by "he people described in John 20:29?" Only two people are mentioned in that verse, Jesus and Thomas:

NKJV Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I am pleased to say that my belief is indeed the same as that expressed by Thomas, when he called Jesus "my Lord and my God."

 

[Godsgood]

I ask you again, as I have several times, are you really trying to tell me that absolutely no part of God's word is literal truth? When the Bible says that Jesus ascended into heaven, and that He is now seated at His Father's right hand, do you believe that it really means something else?

Revelation 4:2 does not say that there are two thrones. It says that a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on it. So my understanding does not conflict with what the apostle John saw.

f God the Father is seated on the throne in heaven, and the Lord Jesus is also seated at the right hand of the Father, wouldn’t that mean there are two seats or thrones? Wouldn’t that contradict what the apostle John saw, that there was only one throne?

 

[OMC]

Regarding Jesus, let us not forget that there are two Jesus figures: the true Jesus and the false Jesus.

The question is, which of these two Jesus figures did the people recognize that made them claim to be more blessed than Thomas? Whereas Thomas recognized the true Jesus.

You’re creating a distinction Jesus never made. John 20:29 is not about “two Jesus figures” or about Thomas recognizing a “true Jesus” while others supposedly recognize a false one. The text is about how people come to faith — Thomas demanded physical sight, while Jesus blesses those who believe through the apostolic witness without seeing. Nothing in the passage introduces a “false Jesus,” and nothing suggests that believers who trust Christ without physical sight are following anyone other than the same risen Lord Thomas touched. You’re importing categories the Scripture doesn’t mention; Jesus is praising faith without sight, not dividing believers into two groups following two different Jesuses.

 

[DavidLamb]

f God the Father is seated on the throne in heaven, and the Lord Jesus is also seated at the right hand of the Father, wouldn’t that mean there are two seats or thrones? Wouldn’t that contradict what the apostle John saw, that there was only one throne?

God the Father is spirit - He does not literally "sit" anywhere. Most of Revelation is a vision given by Jesus to John. There are no contradictions in God's word, so when that word says that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, it cannot and does not contradict Revelation 4:2.

 

[Godsgood]

So are you accusing me of lying now, posting things that are not really in my heart? Also, who do you mean by "he people described in John 20:29?" Only two people are mentioned in that verse, Jesus and Thomas:

NKJV Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I am pleased to say that my belief is indeed the same as that expressed by Thomas, when he called Jesus "my Lord and my God."

NKJV Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

It really appears that your understanding of God’s Word is limited to the literal meaning.
If God used the name Thomas, it does not necessarily mean that He was referring only to Thomas himself.
Rather, there may be a spiritual message conveyed through the name Thomas.

Perhaps if you were in the position of the rich man who died at the same time as the poor man Lazarus, and you asked Abraham to send Lazarus back to earth to warn your brothers, you would not believe Abraham when he said that there was no need for Lazarus to return to earth because Moses was already there.

But how could Moses still be on earth when he had already been dead as well as all prophets for a long time, especially since this event took place during the New Testament period?
LUKE 16:
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

That is why Abraham used the name Moses. It does not necessarily mean Moses who lived in the Old Testament and delivered God’s Ten Commandments. Rather, there is a spiritual message from God behind the reason why the name Moses was used.

 

[Godsgood]

God the Father is spirit - He does not literally "sit" anywhere. Most of Revelation is a vision given by Jesus to John. There are no contradictions in God's word, so when that word says that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, it cannot and does not contradict Revelation 4:2.

If that is your understanding, then my question is: Why does it say that Jesus sat at the right hand of the Father? What, then, is the position of the Father?

 

[OMC]

NKJV Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

It really appears that your understanding of God’s Word is limited to the literal meaning.
If God used the name Thomas, it does not necessarily mean that He was referring only to Thomas himself.
Rather, there may be a spiritual message conveyed through the name Thomas.

Perhaps if you were in the position of the rich man who died at the same time as the poor man Lazarus, and you asked Abraham to send Lazarus back to earth to warn your brothers, you would not believe Abraham when he said that there was no need for Lazarus to return to earth because Moses was already there.

But how could Moses still be on earth when he had already been dead as well as all prophets for a long time, especially since this event took place during the New Testament period?
LUKE 16:
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

That is why Abraham used the name Moses. It does not necessarily mean Moses who lived in the Old Testament and delivered God’s Ten Commandments. Rather, there is a spiritual message from God behind the reason why the name Moses was used.

You’re treating “Thomas” and “Moses” as if God secretly meant something other than the actual historical men named in the text, but nothing in Scripture supports that method. In John 20:29 Jesus is speaking to Thomas, about Thomas’s response, contrasting his demand for sight with the blessedness of those who believe without seeing. There is no hidden “spiritual meaning” behind Thomas’s name; the point is his behavior, not his name. And in Luke 16, when Abraham says, “They have Moses and the prophets,” he is not claiming Moses is physically alive on earth — he is referring to the written Scriptures, the Law and the Prophets, which were already in their hands. Abraham uses Moses’s name because Moses is the authoritative voice of the Law, not because God is secretly encoding a mystical meaning behind the name. You’re replacing the plain sense of the passage with symbolic interpretations the text never gives. Jesus meant Thomas. Abraham meant Moses. The message is clear without inventing hidden layers: faith rests on God’s Word, not on physical appearances or resurrected messengers. It really appears that your understanding of God’s Word is limited period.

 

[Godsgood]

So are you accusing me of lying now, posting things that are not really in my heart? Also, who do you mean by "he people described in John 20:29?" Only two people are mentioned in that verse, Jesus and Thomas:

NKJV Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I am pleased to say that my belief is indeed the same as that expressed by Thomas, when he called Jesus "my Lord and my God."

I am pleased to say that my belief is indeed the same as that expressed by Thomas, when he called Jesus "my Lord and my God."

Human belief can never be used as the basis for salvation, because the heart is deceitful above all things, and no one can fully know it, as stated in Jeremiah 17:9

If human belief could be relied upon as the basis for salvation, then God would not have needed to give us this warning.
PROVERBS 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

The belief a person must have for salvation should be the result of the faith that God grants.
EPHESIANS 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And the faith that comes from God is granted only to those who humble themselves, which is why they come to know the one true God.

 

[OMC]

I am pleased to say that my belief is indeed the same as that expressed by Thomas, when he called Jesus "my Lord and my God."

Human belief can never be used as the basis for salvation, because the heart is deceitful above all things, and no one can fully know it, as stated in Jeremiah 17:9

If human belief could be relied upon as the basis for salvation, then God would not have needed to give us this warning.
PROVERBS 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

The belief a person must have for salvation should be the result of the faith that God grants.
EPHESIANS 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And the faith that comes from God is granted only to those who humble themselves, which is why they come to know the one true God

You’re building your argument on a false premise — that human belief cannot be the basis for salvation because the heart is deceitful. But Scripture never says “belief is unreliable”; it says unbelief is deadly. The very passages you quoted do not teach what you claim. Jeremiah 17:9 describes the unregenerate heart, not the believing heart made new (Ezek 36:26). Proverbs 14:12 warns against self‑chosen paths, not against believing God’s Word. And Ephesians 2:8–9 does not say faith is the gift — the pronoun τοῦτο (“that”) is neuter, while πίστις (“faith”) is feminine, meaning Paul is calling salvation the gift, not faith. The NT repeatedly commands people to believe (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Rom 10:9–10), and God never commands what He secretly prevents. The faith that saves is not a mystical implant given only to the humble — it is the human response to God’s revealed truth, enabled by His grace but genuinely exercised by the person. Thomas’s confession “My Lord and my God” is exactly the kind of belief Jesus blesses in John 20:29 — belief grounded in the apostolic witness, not in secret spiritual meanings behind names. You’re replacing clear Scripture with theological deductions the text does not support

 

[DavidLamb]

NKJV Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

It really appears that your understanding of God’s Word is limited to the literal meaning.
If God used the name Thomas, it does not necessarily mean that He was referring only to Thomas himself.
Rather, there may be a spiritual message conveyed through the name Thomas.

That just does not make sense. All 11 disciples (no Judas Iscariot of course) were there in the room with Jesus. Jesus addresses Thomas, and the words He says fit specifically with what had happened as far as Thomas was concerned. Thomas had been told by the other disciples that Jesus had risen and was alive. He would not believe. Now Jesus has appeared again, and this time, Thomas is there. Why complicate matters by trying to tell us that Jesus was not really speaking to Thomas, but conveying a spiritual message through the name "Thomas"? (I understand that the name "Thomas" means "twin", but that doesn't get us very far spiritually).

Perhaps if you were in the position of the rich man who died at the same time as the poor man Lazarus, and you asked Abraham to send Lazarus back to earth to warn your brothers, you would not believe Abraham when he said that there was no need for Lazarus to return to earth because Moses was already there.

Abraham did not say that Moses was already there. He said, "They have Moses and the prophets," which was a way of referring to the Old Testament. It's similar to what Jesus said to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus:

NKJV Luk 24:44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
Luk 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

But how could Moses still be on earth when he had already been dead as well as all prophets for a long time, especially since this event took place during the New Testament period?
LUKE 16:
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

That is why Abraham used the name Moses. It does not necessarily mean Moses who lived in the Old Testament and delivered God’s Ten Commandments. Rather, there is a spiritual message from God behind the reason why the name Moses was used.

No. As I said above, he meant that they had, in the Old Testament, the writings of Moses and the prophets.

 

[Godsgood]

You’re treating “Thomas” and “Moses” as if God secretly meant something other than the actual historical men named in the text, but nothing in Scripture supports that method. In John 20:29 Jesus is speaking to Thomas, about Thomas’s response, contrasting his demand for sight with the blessedness of those who believe without seeing. There is no hidden “spiritual meaning” behind Thomas’s name; the point is his behavior, not his name. And in Luke 16, when Abraham says, “They have Moses and the prophets,” he is not claiming Moses is physically alive on earth — he is referring to the written Scriptures, the Law and the Prophets, which were already in their hands. Abraham uses Moses’s name because Moses is the authoritative voice of the Law, not because God is secretly encoding a mystical meaning behind the name. You’re replacing the plain sense of the passage with symbolic interpretations the text never gives. Jesus meant Thomas. Abraham meant Moses. The message is clear without inventing hidden layers: faith rests on God’s Word, not on physical appearances or resurrected messengers. It really appears that your understanding of God’s Word is limited period.

What is written in the literal text of Scripture is not yet the truth. The spiritual message of God contained in His words is what is called the truth.

Just as something spiritual is described as something that cannot be seen with the physical eyes, the spiritual message of God in His words likewise cannot be seen with the physical eyes.

I will repeat: if the literal text of Scripture were sufficient to reveal the truth, then those who have studied Scripture for five to ten years should have arrived at the same understanding. They should have seen the truth.

And according to the Lord Jesus, no matter how much they study the Scriptures, they will not find the truth.
2 TIMOTHY 3:7
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[DavidLamb]

If that is your understanding, then my question is: Why does it say that Jesus sat at the right hand of the Father? What, then, is the position of the Father?

The Father is often spoken of in a pictorial way. Think of how the Children of Israel were told that God had brought them out of Egypt with a mighty hand. Yet as a spirit, God does not have hands. Similarly here in Revelation. God the Father, being spirit, does not physically sit anywhere.

 

[OMC]

What is written in the literal text of Scripture is not yet the truth. The spiritual message of God contained in His words is what is called the truth.

Just as something spiritual is described as something that cannot be seen with the physical eyes, the spiritual message of God in His words likewise cannot be seen with the physical eyes.

I will repeat: if the literal text of Scripture were sufficient to reveal the truth, then those who have studied Scripture for five to ten years should have arrived at the same understanding. They should have seen the truth.

And according to the Lord Jesus, no matter how much they study the Scriptures, they will not find the truth.
2 TIMOTHY 3:7
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

You’re asserting a principle Scripture never teaches — that “the literal text is not the truth” and only a hidden spiritual meaning is the real truth. Jesus and the apostles never speak this way. The Lord repeatedly says “It is written” (Matt 4:4), not “It is written, but the literal meaning is not the truth.” The psalmist says “The entrance of Thy words giveth light” (Ps 119:130), not “the entrance of hidden meanings.” Paul says “All Scripture is God‑breathed” (2 Tim 3:16), not “the literal Scripture is insufficient.” When you quote 2 Timothy 3:7 (“ever learning, never able to come to the knowledge of the truth”), Paul is describing false teachers, not sincere believers reading the plain text. Their problem is moral rebellion, not lack of mystical interpretation. And Jesus explicitly rebukes the idea that truth is hidden behind symbolic names — He says “Search the Scriptures… they testify of Me” (John 5:39). The Scriptures testify of Christ in their plain meaning, not in secret allegories behind names like Thomas or Moses. Abraham’s statement “They have Moses and the prophets” simply means they have the written Scriptures, not that “Moses” is a spiritual code word. Your method replaces God’s Word with private interpretations the text never gives. The truth is not hidden behind the literal text — the truth is the literal text rightly understood.

 

[Godsgood]

That just does not make sense. All 11 disciples (no Judas Iscariot of course) were there in the room with Jesus. Jesus addresses Thomas, and the words He says fit specifically with what had happened as far as Thomas was concerned. Thomas had been told by the other disciples that Jesus had risen and was alive. He would not believe. Now Jesus has appeared again, and this time, Thomas is there. Why complicate matters by trying to tell us that Jesus was not really speaking to Thomas, but conveying a spiritual message through the name "Thomas"? (I understand that the name "Thomas" means "twin", but that doesn't get us very far spiritually).

Abraham did not say that Moses was already there. He said, "They have Moses and the prophets," which was a way of referring to the Old Testament. It's similar to what Jesus said to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus:

NKJV Luk 24:44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
Luk 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.


No. As I said above, he meant that they had, in the Old Testament, the writings of Moses and the prophets.

It is enough that I have shared the truth from the Word of God.
This is only for the lost sheep, not for everyone.

You may continue with your beliefs and with what you clearly understand from the Word of God.

Perhaps you are not among those whom I am seeking.

 

[DavidLamb]

It is enough that I have shared the truth from the Word of God.
This is only for the lost sheep, not for everyone.

You may continue with your beliefs and with what you clearly understand from the Word of God.

Perhaps you are not among those whom I am seeking.

No, praise God, I am a found sheep. I fear for any lost sheep who read your confusing and unbiblical posts.