End of Days

[Revelation1v8]

According to Scripture, the millennium cannot be a post‑return era with mortal survivors, because every passage describing Christ’s return places resurrection, final judgment, and the destruction of death at His coming (1 Cor 15:23–26; Matt 25:31–46; Rev 20:11–15), leaving no category of humans who continue dying and repopulating afterward; and the “new heavens and new earth” cannot be a replacement planet, because the Bible consistently describes renewal, not annihilation — creation is “set free” (Rom 8:21), the world is purified as in the Flood (2 Pet 3:6–7), and the “passing away” of the first earth is the passing of the old order, not the destruction of the material world (Rev 21:1). The New Jerusalem’s cube shape is temple imagery, not planetary geometry, showing God’s presence filling creation, not replacing it. So the scriptural sequence is: Christ returns → resurrection → final judgment → death destroyed → new creation revealed, with no thousand‑year gap of mortal life in between, and no cosmic swap‑out of the planet.

Except I already showed you where the Bible says there will be people who survive the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21-22.

Matthew 24:21-22

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Once Jesus returns, he'll take the survivors and put them through the Sheep & Goat Judgement in order to be able to enter His earthly Millennial Kingdom. Revelation 20 shows you that no one is judged at the Great White Throne Judgement, including Satan, until after the 1,000 years of peace are over.

 

[OMC]

Except I already showed you where the Bible says there will be people who survive the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21-22.

Matthew 24:21-22

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Once Jesus returns, he'll take the survivors and put them through the Sheep & Goat Judgement in order to be able to enter His earthly Millennial Kingdom. Revelation 20 shows you that no one is judged, including Satan, until after the 1,000 years of peace are over.

Matthew 24:22 does not say “mortals survive after Christ returns”; it says the Tribulation is cut short so that the elect are not wiped out before Christ returns, which is why the very next verses describe the coming of the Son of Man, the angels gathering the elect, and the cosmic collapse that ends history — not a thousand‑year era of continued childbirth and death. “No flesh would be saved” means no one would remain alive to be rescued if God did not shorten the days, not that those survivors continue living normal mortal lives after the return. Once Christ appears, every passage describing His coming places resurrection, final judgment, and the destruction of death at that moment (1 Cor 15:23–26; Matt 25:31–46; Rev 20:11–15), which leaves no category for a population that keeps dying and repopulating afterward. Matthew 24:22 describes preservation until the return, not life after the return.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Matthew 24:22 does not say “mortals survive after Christ returns”; it says the Tribulation is cut short so that the elect are not wiped out before Christ returns, which is why the very next verses describe the coming of the Son of Man, the angels gathering the elect, and the cosmic collapse that ends history — not a thousand‑year era of continued childbirth and death. “No flesh would be saved” means no one would remain alive to be rescued if God did not shorten the days, not that those survivors continue living normal mortal lives after the return. Once Christ appears, every passage describing His coming places resurrection, final judgment, and the destruction of death at that moment (1 Cor 15:23–26; Matt 25:31–46; Rev 20:11–15), which leaves no category for a population that keeps dying and repopulating afterward. Matthew 24:22 describes preservation until the return, not life after the return.

There you go being disingenuous again. Those verses in Matthew 24:21-22 do not say that "no flesh would be saved". It says that no flesh would be saved IF Jesus didn't cut the Great Tribulation short, but He does.

And again, Revelation 20 shows you that the Great White Throne Judgement doesn't happen until the 1,000 year reign of Jesus in peace on earth are over. The whole point of Jesus reigning for 1,000 years on earth is so that ethnic Israel can repopulate and increase the number of Abraham's ethnic seed that populate the earthly and heavenly kingdoms.

 

[OMC]

There you go being disingenuous again. Those verses in Matthew 24:21-22 do not say that "no flesh would be saved". It says that no flesh would be saved IF Jesus didn't cut the Great Tribulation short, but He does.

And again, Revelation 20 shows you that the Great White Throne Judgement doesn't happen until the 1,000 year reign of Jesus in peace on earth are over. The whole point of Jesus reigning for 1,000 years on earth is so that ethnic Israel can repopulate and increase the number of Abraham's ethnic seed that populate the earthly and heavenly kingdoms.

Matthew 24:21–22 really does say what you’re pointing out: if those days weren’t shortened, no one would survive—but God does shorten them “for the sake of the elect.” That means there will still be people alive when Jesus returns.

Where we differ is what happens next.

In the same chapter, right after that, Jesus describes His coming, the angels gathering His people, and the end of the present age—not a long, peaceful era that continues with normal birth and death.
When you go to 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says that when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, all rule and authority are put down, and death itself is destroyed.
That doesn’t leave room for a thousand more years of people dying.
Revelation 20 does show a “thousand years” and then the Great White Throne, but it doesn’t say that the purpose of that period is for ethnic Israel to repopulate; that idea is coming from a system, not from the text itself.
The New Testament consistently ties the final coming of Jesus to resurrection, judgment, and the end of death, and that’s why I’m saying there’s no clear biblical category for a post‑return world where people keep living, dying, and repopulating for a thousand years.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Matthew 24:21–22 really does say what you’re pointing out: if those days weren’t shortened, no one would survive—but God does shorten them “for the sake of the elect.” That means there will still be people alive when Jesus returns.

Where we differ is what happens next.

In the same chapter, right after that, Jesus describes His coming, the angels gathering His people, and the end of the present age—not a long, peaceful era that continues with normal birth and death.
When you go to 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says that when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, all rule and authority are put down, and death itself is destroyed.
That doesn’t leave room for a thousand more years of people dying.
Revelation 20 does show a “thousand years” and then the Great White Throne, but it doesn’t say that the purpose of that period is for ethnic Israel to repopulate; that idea is coming from a system, not from the text itself.
The New Testament consistently ties the final coming of Jesus to resurrection, judgment, and the end of death, and that’s why I’m saying there’s no clear biblical category for a post‑return world where people keep living, dying, and repopulating for a thousand years.

There is no point in locking Satan into the Abyss for 1,000 years if he's immediately judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the time of Jesus' return. What's become clear to me is that the Bible's mention of the seed of Abraham was supposed to be both literal and spiritual. When Jesus spoke of tribulation at all, it was all directed toward the House of Israel. It was never meant for Gentile believers. While all believers who have already passed on will return with Jesus upon His second coming to reign with Jesus and play the role of kings, priests, and judges, none of that is needed in Heaven. We already know who the King, High Priest, and the Judge of all authority is. No one will be questioning that when we get to Heaven. There will no longer be a need for the 12 Disciples to judge over the 12 tribes of Israel because there will be no need to determine Jews from Gentiles any longer when we get to Heaven. Some of this just requires some common sense thinking.

 

[Revelation1v8]

There is no point in locking Satan into the Abyss for 1,000 years if he's immediately judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the time of Jesus' return. What's become clear to me is that the Bible's mention of the seed of Abraham was supposed to be both literal and spiritual. When Jesus spoke of tribulation at all, it was all directed toward the House of Israel. It was never meant for Gentile believers. While all believers who have already passed on will return with Jesus upon His second coming to reign with Jesus and play the role of kings, priests, and judges, none of that is needed in Heaven. We already know who the King, High Priest, and the Judge of all authority is. No one will be questioning that when we get to Heaven. There will no longer be a need for the 12 Disciples to judge over the 12 tribes of Israel because there will be no need to determine Jews from Gentiles any longer when we get to Heaven. Some of this just requires some common sense thinking.

Note to add: Since there will be no laws written in heaven because God's laws will already be written on our hearts and we will have already put on incorruption, there will be no more need for judges. Period.

 

[OMC]

There is no point in locking Satan into the Abyss for 1,000 years if he's immediately judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire at the time of Jesus' return. What's become clear to me is that the Bible's mention of the seed of Abraham was supposed to be both literal and spiritual. When Jesus spoke of tribulation at all, it was all directed toward the House of Israel. It was never meant for Gentile believers. While all believers who have already passed on will return with Jesus upon His second coming to reign with Jesus and play the role of kings, priests, and judges, none of that is needed in Heaven. We already know who the King, High Priest, and the Judge of all authority is. No one will be questioning that when we get to Heaven. There will no longer be a need for the 12 Disciples to judge over the 12 tribes of Israel because there will be no need to determine Jews from Gentiles any longer when we get to Heaven. Some of this just requires some common sense thinking.

The key is noticing how the New Testament ties all the major events together.
Jesus says the Tribulation is shortened so people are still alive when He returns — that part is true.
The question is what happens once He appears.
In Matthew 24, right after the Tribulation is shortened, Jesus describes His coming, the angels gathering His people, and the end of the present age.
Paul says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 15: when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, every enemy is put down, and death itself is destroyed.
That’s why it’s hard to fit a thousand more years of ordinary life, birth, and death after Jesus returns — the New Testament keeps saying His coming is the moment when death ends, not when it pauses.

About Satan being locked away: Revelation 20 does show a “thousand years,” but it never says the purpose is for ethnic Israel to repopulate.
That idea comes from a theological system, not from the text itself.
The Bible’s promise to Abraham includes both spiritual and physical descendants, but the New Testament keeps saying the true children of Abraham are those who belong to Christ.
And when Jesus talks about His people reigning with Him, He ties that to the resurrection, not to a long earthly era before the final judgment.
Revelation places the Great White Throne after the thousand years, but it also shows that the thousand years belong to the souls who were raised, not to a surviving mortal population.
I’m saying the New Testament keeps pulling all the big events — Christ’s return, resurrection, judgment, and the end of death — into one moment, not two. That’s why many Christians see the “thousand years” as describing Christ’s reign from heaven until His return, rather than a future earthly era of repopulation.

 

[Revelation1v8]

The key is noticing how the New Testament ties all the major events together.
Jesus says the Tribulation is shortened so people are still alive when He returns — that part is true.
The question is what happens once He appears.
In Matthew 24, right after the Tribulation is shortened, Jesus describes His coming, the angels gathering His people, and the end of the present age.
Paul says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 15: when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, every enemy is put down, and death itself is destroyed.
That’s why it’s hard to fit a thousand more years of ordinary life, birth, and death after Jesus returns — the New Testament keeps saying His coming is the moment when death ends, not when it pauses.

About Satan being locked away: Revelation 20 does show a “thousand years,” but it never says the purpose is for ethnic Israel to repopulate.
That idea comes from a theological system, not from the text itself.
The Bible’s promise to Abraham includes both spiritual and physical descendants, but the New Testament keeps saying the true children of Abraham are those who belong to Christ.
And when Jesus talks about His people reigning with Him, He ties that to the resurrection, not to a long earthly era before the final judgment.
Revelation places the Great White Throne after the thousand years, but it also shows that the thousand years belong to the souls who were raised, not to a surviving mortal population.
I’m saying the New Testament keeps pulling all the big events — Christ’s return, resurrection, judgment, and the end of death — into one moment, not two. That’s why many Christians see the “thousand years” as describing Christ’s reign from heaven until His return, rather than a future earthly era of repopulation.

Help me to understand why you object to the Old Testament so much when it says that during the time of peace (which we know as the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ) will include people continuing to live, die, and repopulate? Is all of your theological study on the New Testament only?

I know you're a fan of A.I., so why aren't you using it to show you the scriptures that speak about it? I'll show you what it says:

Christian theology identifies the Millennial Kingdom as a future, literal 1,000-year reign of Jesus Christ on earth, supported by specific biblical prophecies that indicate mortality, procreation, and continued human existence.

Biblical Evidence for Mortality and Long Life

• Isaiah 65:20 explicitly states that death will still occur but will be considered a youthful demise, noting that "he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."
• Zechariah 14:16 describes survivors of the final battle who will go up from year to year to worship the King, indicating a living, breathing population remaining on earth.
• Isaiah 65:21–23 mentions people building houses, planting vineyards, and enjoying long lives "as the days of a tree," confirming continued earthly existence.

Evidence for Repopulation and Procreation

• Isaiah 65:23 and Matthew 19:28 imply that the kingdom will involve "regeneration" or repopulation, with believers producing children who will grow up to choose faith.
• Revelation 20:7–9 describes Satan being released at the end of the millennium to deceive the nations, which requires a new generation of humans who were born during the thousand-year reign.
• Matthew 25:31–46 (the Sheep and Goats judgment) indicates that those who survive the tribulation will enter the kingdom in their natural, mortal bodies to inherit the earth.

Theological Conclusion
The combination of these texts supports the view that the millennium is a transitional, physical kingdom where resurrected saints rule alongside mortal believers who repopulate the earth, experience extended lifespans, and still face the possibility of death until the final judgment.

If you want to know more about what happens during this 1,000 years, you should also read the books and chapters I've cut and pasted below:

 

[OMC]

Help me to understand why you object to the Old Testament so much when it says that during the time of peace (which we know as the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ) will include people continuing to live, die, and repopulate? Is all of your theological study on the New Testament only?

I know you're a fan of A.I., so why aren't you using it to show you the scriptures that speak about it? I'll show you what it says:

Christian theology identifies the Millennial Kingdom as a future, literal 1,000-year reign of Jesus Christ on earth, supported by specific biblical prophecies that indicate mortality, procreation, and continued human existence.

Biblical Evidence for Mortality and Long Life

• Isaiah 65:20 explicitly states that death will still occur but will be considered a youthful demise, noting that "he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."
• Zechariah 14:16 describes survivors of the final battle who will go up from year to year to worship the King, indicating a living, breathing population remaining on earth.
• Isaiah 65:21–23 mentions people building houses, planting vineyards, and enjoying long lives "as the days of a tree," confirming continued earthly existence.

Evidence for Repopulation and Procreation

• Isaiah 65:23 and Matthew 19:28 imply that the kingdom will involve "regeneration" or repopulation, with believers producing children who will grow up to choose faith.
• Revelation 20:7–9 describes Satan being released at the end of the millennium to deceive the nations, which requires a new generation of humans who were born during the thousand-year reign.
• Matthew 25:31–46 (the Sheep and Goats judgment) indicates that those who survive the tribulation will enter the kingdom in their natural, mortal bodies to inherit the earth.

Theological Conclusion
The combination of these texts supports the view that the millennium is a transitional, physical kingdom where resurrected saints rule alongside mortal believers who repopulate the earth, experience extended lifespans, and still face the possibility of death until the final judgment.

If you want to know more about what happens during this 1,000 years, you should also read the books and chapters I've cut and pasted below:

View attachment 295554

I feel you brother, and I get why the Old Testament passages feel so straightforward: Isaiah 65 talks about long life, building houses, planting vineyards, and people dying at a hundred; Zechariah 14 talks about survivors coming up to worship; Revelation 20 talks about nations being deceived after the thousand years. On the surface, that really does sound like a world where mortal people keep living under Christ’s rule. I’m not “objecting to the Old Testament” I’m trying to read those passages the way the New Testament teaches us to read them — as prophetic pictures of peace, restoration, and blessing, not as a timeline that overrides what Jesus and Paul say about His return.
Isaiah’s language is poetic and symbolic, the same way earlier chapters describe wolves and lambs lying down together; it’s painting a picture of the world made right, not giving a calendar of mortal life after the resurrection.
And Zechariah’s “survivors” language is the same prophetic style — nations restored to worship, not a literal census of who lives after the Second Coming.
When Jesus explains the end of the age in Matthew 24, He puts His return, the gathering of His people, and the closing of the present world all together.
Paul does the same in 1 Corinthians 15: when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, every enemy is defeated, and death itself is destroyed.
That’s why I keep saying it’s hard to place a thousand‑year era of normal birth and death after Jesus returns — the New Testament keeps pulling all the big events into one moment, not two. Revelation 20’s thousand years is real, but John says it belongs to the souls who were raised, not to a population of mortals who keep dying.
So I’m not ignoring the Old Testament; I’m reading it through the lens Jesus and the apostles give us.
The OT gives us the imagery of peace, restoration, and blessing; the NT tells us when and how those promises land.

 

[Revelation1v8]

I feel you brother, and I get why the Old Testament passages feel so straightforward: Isaiah 65 talks about long life, building houses, planting vineyards, and people dying at a hundred; Zechariah 14 talks about survivors coming up to worship; Revelation 20 talks about nations being deceived after the thousand years. On the surface, that really does sound like a world where mortal people keep living under Christ’s rule. I’m not “objecting to the Old Testament” I’m trying to read those passages the way the New Testament teaches us to read them — as prophetic pictures of peace, restoration, and blessing, not as a timeline that overrides what Jesus and Paul say about His return.
Isaiah’s language is poetic and symbolic, the same way earlier chapters describe wolves and lambs lying down together; it’s painting a picture of the world made right, not giving a calendar of mortal life after the resurrection.
And Zechariah’s “survivors” language is the same prophetic style — nations restored to worship, not a literal census of who lives after the Second Coming.
When Jesus explains the end of the age in Matthew 24, He puts His return, the gathering of His people, and the closing of the present world all together.
Paul does the same in 1 Corinthians 15: when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, every enemy is defeated, and death itself is destroyed.
That’s why I keep saying it’s hard to place a thousand‑year era of normal birth and death after Jesus returns — the New Testament keeps pulling all the big events into one moment, not two. Revelation 20’s thousand years is real, but John says it belongs to the souls who were raised, not to a population of mortals who keep dying.
So I’m not ignoring the Old Testament; I’m reading it through the lens Jesus and the apostles give us.
The OT gives us the imagery of peace, restoration, and blessing; the NT tells us when and how those promises land.

You still can't explain why if everyone has already been judged and in heaven why Satan would need to spend 1,000 years in the Abyss and then set free to try and deceive all of the nations all over again. If everyone has already been judged and sitting in heaven or hell, there's no reason for Satan to try and deceive anyone any more after the 1,000 years are over. This is one area that you've never given a true explanation for.

Plus, Paul never puts a timeline on all of the events mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15 as happening at once, you are.

For someone who understands that the Bible uses "Prophetic Telescoping", you don't seem to be able to mentally piece together or understand exactly how that works.

 

[OMC]

You still can't explain why if everyone has already been judged and in heaven why Satan would need to spend 1,000 years in the Abyss and then set free to try and deceive all of the nations all over again. If everyone has already been judged and sitting in heaven or hell, there's no reason for Satan to try and deceive anyone any more after the 1,000 years are over. This is one area that you've never given a true explanation for.

Plus, Paul never puts a timeline on all of the events mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15 as happening at once, you are.

For someone who understands that the Bible uses "Prophetic Telescoping", you don't seem to be able to mentally piece together or understand exactly how that works.

I completely understand why this feels like a contradiction. If everyone is already in heaven or hell, why bind Satan at all? Why release him later? Who is he deceiving?

The key is this:

Revelation 20 never says the 1,000 years happen after the final judgment.
It says the 1,000 years happen before the final judgment.

That alone changes the whole picture.

Here’s the simple flow Revelation actually gives:
Satan is bound
The souls (not mortals) reign with Christ
The 1,000 years end
Satan is released
Satan deceives the nations
Final judgment happens
New creation arrives

Notice what’s missing:
No mention of mortals living normal lives
No mention of childbirth
No mention of people dying at 100
No mention of Israel repopulating
No mention of earthly kingdoms continuing

The only people reigning during the 1,000 years are “the souls of those who were beheaded” (Rev 20:4).
That’s not a description of mortal life on earth — it’s a description of resurrected martyrs reigning with Christ in heaven.

So why bind Satan?

Because Revelation 20 is showing a symbolic picture of Christ’s victory over Satan during the church age, not a future earthly era.
Satan is “bound” in the sense that he cannot stop the gospel from spreading to the nations (Matt 12:29; Luke 10:18; John 12:31).

Why release him?

Because Scripture teaches a final period of deception and rebellion before Christ returns (2 Thess 2:3–10).Revelation 20 is describing that final outbreak of evil — not a rebellion of mortals who lived under Jesus for 1,000 years.

So the binding and releasing make perfect sense before the final judgment.
They make no sense after the final judgment — which is exactly why Revelation does not place them after.

You’re right that Paul doesn’t say “all of this happens in five minutes.”
But he does say it all happens at Christ’s coming.

Here’s Paul’s order:
Christ returns
The resurrection happens
Every enemy is destroyed
Death is abolished
The kingdom is handed to the Father

If death is abolished at Christ’s coming, then:
No more dying
No more childbirth
No more mortal life
No more “people who die at 100”
No more nations to deceive

That’s why the NT doesn’t leave room for a mortal millennium after Jesus returns.

You’re right that prophetic telescoping exists — but telescoping never contradicts the explicit sequence given by Jesus and Paul.

Why Isaiah 65 and Zechariah 14 don’t describe a post‑return millennium.
This is the part that feels hardest, so let’s slow it down.

Isaiah 65 describes:
long life
building houses
planting vineyards
dying at 100
childbirth
normal human society

But Isaiah also says:

wolves and lambs lie down together
serpents eat dust
Jerusalem is eternal
no more weeping
no more crying

Isaiah is painting a poetic picture of restoration, not giving a literal timeline of events after the Second Coming.

The NT tells us how to read Isaiah:
Jesus says His return ends the present age (Matt 24:29–31).
Paul says His return destroys death (1 Cor 15:23–26).
Peter says His return melts the old world and reveals the new (2 Pet 3:10–13).
John says the new creation has no death at all (Rev 21:4).

So Isaiah’s imagery must be describing the world made right, not a temporary era before the world is made right.
Zechariah works the same way — prophetic imagery pointing to final restoration, not a literal calendar of mortal life after Jesus returns.

You’re reading Revelation 20 through the lens of Isaiah 65.

I’m reading Isaiah 65 through the lens of Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John.

Both approaches feel natural — but only one keeps the NT’s explicit timeline intact.

The NT says:

• Christ returns
• The resurrection happens
• Death ends
• Judgment happens
• New creation begins

There’s no space in that sequence for:

• mortal survivors
• childbirth
• death at 100
• nations repopulating
• Satan deceiving mortals after Jesus has been visibly ruling them for 1,000 years

That’s why I keep saying the NT pulls all the big events into one moment, not two.

 

[Revelation1v8]

I feel you brother, and I get why the Old Testament passages feel so straightforward: Isaiah 65 talks about long life, building houses, planting vineyards, and people dying at a hundred; Zechariah 14 talks about survivors coming up to worship; Revelation 20 talks about nations being deceived after the thousand years. On the surface, that really does sound like a world where mortal people keep living under Christ’s rule. I’m not “objecting to the Old Testament” I’m trying to read those passages the way the New Testament teaches us to read them — as prophetic pictures of peace, restoration, and blessing, not as a timeline that overrides what Jesus and Paul say about His return.
Isaiah’s language is poetic and symbolic, the same way earlier chapters describe wolves and lambs lying down together; it’s painting a picture of the world made right, not giving a calendar of mortal life after the resurrection.
And Zechariah’s “survivors” language is the same prophetic style — nations restored to worship, not a literal census of who lives after the Second Coming.
When Jesus explains the end of the age in Matthew 24, He puts His return, the gathering of His people, and the closing of the present world all together.
Paul does the same in 1 Corinthians 15: when Christ comes, the resurrection happens, every enemy is defeated, and death itself is destroyed.
That’s why I keep saying it’s hard to place a thousand‑year era of normal birth and death after Jesus returns — the New Testament keeps pulling all the big events into one moment, not two. Revelation 20’s thousand years is real, but John says it belongs to the souls who were raised, not to a population of mortals who keep dying.
So I’m not ignoring the Old Testament; I’m reading it through the lens Jesus and the apostles give us.
The OT gives us the imagery of peace, restoration, and blessing; the NT tells us when and how those promises land.

Just so you know, I had a hard time wrapping my head around this at first too. I kept asking myself, why in the world would God save me from this sinful world just to put me back in it again to live with mortals, and some who were sinning? I kept thinking to myself, maybe the new heaven and new earth were separate and that all believers before Jesus' second coming would just sit in heaven and wait until the 1,000 years on earth were finished and then we would all be joined together when the New Jerusalem came down to join it to create the combined heaven/earth. I couldn't understand why the gates of Heaven were left open unless people from the new earth were somehow traveling back and forth between it. I even wondered if the new earth was specifically for the House of Israel forever, but we know there isn't going to be any difference between Jews & Gentiles in Heaven, so i had to rule that out. The truth is, some things we'll never have the answers for until we're in God's presence to know and understand everything.

 

[Revelation1v8]

I completely understand why this feels like a contradiction. If everyone is already in heaven or hell, why bind Satan at all? Why release him later? Who is he deceiving?

The key is this:

Revelation 20 never says the 1,000 years happen after the final judgment.
It says the 1,000 years happen before the final judgment.

That alone changes the whole picture.

Here’s the simple flow Revelation actually gives:
Satan is bound
The souls (not mortals) reign with Christ
The 1,000 years end
Satan is released
Satan deceives the nations
Final judgment happens
New creation arrives

Notice what’s missing:
No mention of mortals living normal lives
No mention of childbirth
No mention of people dying at 100
No mention of Israel repopulating
No mention of earthly kingdoms continuing

The only people reigning during the 1,000 years are “the souls of those who were beheaded” (Rev 20:4).
That’s not a description of mortal life on earth — it’s a description of resurrected martyrs reigning with Christ in heaven.

So why bind Satan?

Because Revelation 20 is showing a symbolic picture of Christ’s victory over Satan during the church age, not a future earthly era.
Satan is “bound” in the sense that he cannot stop the gospel from spreading to the nations (Matt 12:29; Luke 10:18; John 12:31).

Why release him?

Because Scripture teaches a final period of deception and rebellion before Christ returns (2 Thess 2:3–10).Revelation 20 is describing that final outbreak of evil — not a rebellion of mortals who lived under Jesus for 1,000 years.

So the binding and releasing make perfect sense before the final judgment.
They make no sense after the final judgment — which is exactly why Revelation does not place them after.

You’re right that Paul doesn’t say “all of this happens in five minutes.”
But he does say it all happens at Christ’s coming.

Here’s Paul’s order:
Christ returns
The resurrection happens
Every enemy is destroyed
Death is abolished
The kingdom is handed to the Father

If death is abolished at Christ’s coming, then:
No more dying
No more childbirth
No more mortal life
No more “people who die at 100”
No more nations to deceive

That’s why the NT doesn’t leave room for a mortal millennium after Jesus returns.

You’re right that prophetic telescoping exists — but telescoping never contradicts the explicit sequence given by Jesus and Paul.

Why Isaiah 65 and Zechariah 14 don’t describe a post‑return millennium.
This is the part that feels hardest, so let’s slow it down.

Isaiah 65 describes:
long life
building houses
planting vineyards
dying at 100
childbirth
normal human society

But Isaiah also says:

wolves and lambs lie down together
serpents eat dust
Jerusalem is eternal
no more weeping
no more crying

Isaiah is painting a poetic picture of restoration, not giving a literal timeline of events after the Second Coming.

The NT tells us how to read Isaiah:
Jesus says His return ends the present age (Matt 24:29–31).
Paul says His return destroys death (1 Cor 15:23–26).
Peter says His return melts the old world and reveals the new (2 Pet 3:10–13).
John says the new creation has no death at all (Rev 21:4).

So Isaiah’s imagery must be describing the world made right, not a temporary era before the world is made right.
Zechariah works the same way — prophetic imagery pointing to final restoration, not a literal calendar of mortal life after Jesus returns.

You’re reading Revelation 20 through the lens of Isaiah 65.

I’m reading Isaiah 65 through the lens of Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John.

Both approaches feel natural — but only one keeps the NT’s explicit timeline intact.

The NT says:

• Christ returns
• The resurrection happens
• Death ends
• Judgment happens
• New creation begins

There’s no space in that sequence for:

• mortal survivors
• childbirth
• death at 100
• nations repopulating
• Satan deceiving mortals after Jesus has been visibly ruling them for 1,000 years

That’s why I keep saying the NT pulls all the big events into one moment, not two.

LOL! I think we're getting tired because now you're repeating back to me what I've already told you about Revelation 20. I've also told you that Revelation 20 is the only place in the New Testament that specifically talks about the Millennial Kingdom outside of the Old Testament. Satan, Hell, and Death aren't thrown into the Lake of Fire until AFTER the 1,000 years are over, so there will be life going on until everyone is judged at the FINAL Great White Throne Judgement.

There is no clue from the Old Testament that the 1,000 years of peace on earth happens BEFORE His second coming, so that doesn't make any sense. Do you really think as bad as life is in the world today that there's going to be a 1,000 year period of peace where everyone knows who Jesus is BEFORE the Great Tribulation?! I think that's very unlikely.

But we should pick this up again tomorrow when we're fresh. Sleep well and I look forward to talking to you later!!

 

[OMC]

There is no clue from the Old Testament that the 1,000 years of peace on earth happens BEFORE His second coming, so that doesn't make any sense. Do you really think as bad as life is in the world today that it's there's going to be a 1,000 year period of peace BEFORE the Great Tribulation?! I think that's very unlikely.

You’re absolutely right:The Old Testament never uses the phrase “1,000 years,” and it never says that a 1,000‑year era happens before Jesus returns.

But it also never says:

• Jesus returns before Isaiah 65’s long‑life era
• Jesus returns after Isaiah 65’s long‑life era
• Jesus returns during Isaiah 65’s long‑life era

The OT simply paints pictures of restoration, not timelines.

That’s why Christians have always needed the New Testament to explain when those pictures land.

 

[Revelation1v8]

You’re absolutely right:The Old Testament never uses the phrase “1,000 years,” and it never says that a 1,000‑year era happens before Jesus returns.

But it also never says:

• Jesus returns before Isaiah 65’s long‑life era
• Jesus returns after Isaiah 65’s long‑life era
• Jesus returns during Isaiah 65’s long‑life era

The OT simply paints pictures of restoration, not timelines.

That’s why Christians have always needed the New Testament to explain when those pictures land.

Well, we know for sure that Isaiah 65 tells us that people who die at 100 years of age are considered accursed and that they will live as long as a tree, plus we know that everyone will absolutely already know who Jesus is during that whole time.

Here's what Isaiah says about it:

According to the search context, Isaiah 65 describes a future era (often interpreted as the Millennial Kingdom or the New Creation) where:

• Believers will know Jesus: Those who are believers in Christ will live in this kingdom, and God’s presence will be fully restored (Isaiah 65:24).
• Unbelievers will still be present: The text indicates that people who do not know Jesus will still exist during this time. Isaiah 65:20 states that those who do not know Jesus will be "accursed" if they reach the age of one hundred, implying they are alive but not saved.
• Rejection remains: The chapter begins by contrasting God’s grace to those who did not seek Him (interpreted by Paul in Romans 10:20 as the Gentiles) with His judgment on an "obstinate" and "rebellious" people (Isaiah 65:2-3), suggesting that not all will accept or know Him.

Scholars note that while a portion of Jews will accept Jesus as the Messiah at a future appointed time (Romans 11:25-27), the context of Isaiah 65 includes both the saved and the unsaved coexisting, with the unsaved facing judgment even in this blessed state.

 

[OMC]

Well, we know for sure that Isaiah 65 tells us that people who die at 100 years of age are considered accursed and that they will live as long as a tree, plus we know that everyone will absolutely already know who Jesus is during that whole time.

Here's what Isaiah says about it:

According to the search context, Isaiah 65 describes a future era (often interpreted as the Millennial Kingdom or the New Creation) where:

• Believers will know Jesus: Those who are believers in Christ will live in this kingdom, and God’s presence will be fully restored (Isaiah 65:24).
• Unbelievers will still be present: The text indicates that people who do not know Jesus will still exist during this time. Isaiah 65:20 states that those who do not know Jesus will be "accursed" if they reach the age of one hundred, implying they are alive but not saved.
• Rejection remains: The chapter begins by contrasting God’s grace to those who did not seek Him (interpreted by Paul in Romans 10:20 as the Gentiles) with His judgment on an "obstinate" and "rebellious" people (Isaiah 65:2-3), suggesting that not all will accept or know Him.

Scholars note that while a portion of Jews will accept Jesus as the Messiah at a future appointed time (Romans 11:25-27), the context of Isaiah 65 includes both the saved and the unsaved coexisting, with the unsaved facing judgment even in this blessed state.

The Pattern of Events (New Testament Order)

• The present age continues Evil still exists, the gospel spreads, nations are discipled, and Satan’s influence is limited but real.(Jesus calls this “the present age.”)
• A final period of deception and rebellion rises Scripture calls this “the man of lawlessness,” “the falling away,” and “the great tribulation.”(Matt 24; 2 Thess 2)
• The Tribulation is cut short so people survive Jesus says if God didn’t shorten it, no flesh would survive — but He does shorten it.(Matt 24:22)
• Christ returns visibly and gloriously This is the moment everything changes.(Matt 24:29–31)
• The resurrection happens at His coming The dead in Christ rise; the living are transformed.(1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 4:16–17)
• Every enemy is destroyed — including death Paul says death is abolished at Christ’s coming, not later.(1 Cor 15:24–26)
• Final judgment happens Sheep and goats, great white throne — all wrapped into the return event.(Matt 25:31–46; Rev 20:11–15)
• The old creation passes away Not annihilated — but the old order of sin, curse, and death is gone.(Rev 21:1)
• The new creation begins No more death, no more mourning, no more pain.(Rev 21:4)

Where the “1,000 years” fits in this pattern
Revelation 20 places the “1,000 years” before the final judgment, not after the Second Coming. So it must be during the Present age, and the final period of deception and rebellion, and the tribulation cut short, time periods

And during the 1,000 years, John says only:

• “the souls of those who were beheaded” reign the faithful dead who are alive with Christ in the intermediate state. Their reign happens before the resurrection of the body.
• Satan is bound from deceiving the nations
• Satan is released at the end
• The final judgment follows

There is no mention of:

• mortal survivors
• childbirth
• people dying at 100
• Israel repopulating
• Jesus physically ruling mortals
• nations living in peace under Christ

Those ideas come from reading Isaiah’s imagery as literal timelines, not from Revelation’s sequence.
John is giving a heaven‑side view of the church age: Christ reigns, His martyrs reign with Him, Satan’s power is limited, and at the end of the age Satan is released for a final rebellion before Christ returns, raises the dead, judges the world, and brings the new creation.

 

[OMC]

Revelation 20 places the “1,000 years” before the final judgment, not after the Second Coming. So it must be during the Present age, and the final period of deception and rebellion, and the tribulation cut short, time periods

Revelation 20 places the “1,000 years” before the final judgment, not after the Second Coming. So it must be during the Present age, and the final period of deception and rebellion, and the tribulation cut short, time periods? No

Sorry, I cut myself off there, lol

 

[Revelation1v8]

The Pattern of Events (New Testament Order)

• The present age continues Evil still exists, the gospel spreads, nations are discipled, and Satan’s influence is limited but real.(Jesus calls this “the present age.”)
• A final period of deception and rebellion rises Scripture calls this “the man of lawlessness,” “the falling away,” and “the great tribulation.”(Matt 24; 2 Thess 2)
• The Tribulation is cut short so people survive Jesus says if God didn’t shorten it, no flesh would survive — but He does shorten it.(Matt 24:22)
• Christ returns visibly and gloriously This is the moment everything changes.(Matt 24:29–31)
• The resurrection happens at His coming The dead in Christ rise; the living are transformed.(1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 4:16–17)
• Every enemy is destroyed — including death Paul says death is abolished at Christ’s coming, not later.(1 Cor 15:24–26)
• Final judgment happens Sheep and goats, great white throne — all wrapped into the return event.(Matt 25:31–46; Rev 20:11–15)
• The old creation passes away Not annihilated — but the old order of sin, curse, and death is gone.(Rev 21:1)
• The new creation begins No more death, no more mourning, no more pain.(Rev 21:4)

Where the “1,000 years” fits in this pattern
Revelation 20 places the “1,000 years” before the final judgment, not after the Second Coming. So it must be during the Present age, and the final period of deception and rebellion, and the tribulation cut short, time periods

And during the 1,000 years, John says only:

• “the souls of those who were beheaded” reign the faithful dead who are alive with Christ in the intermediate state. Their reign happens before the resurrection of the body.
• Satan is bound from deceiving the nations
• Satan is released at the end
• The final judgment follows

There is no mention of:

• mortal survivors
• childbirth
• people dying at 100
• Israel repopulating
• Jesus physically ruling mortals
• nations living in peace under Christ

Those ideas come from reading Isaiah’s imagery as literal timelines, not from Revelation’s sequence.
John is giving a heaven‑side view of the church age: Christ reigns, His martyrs reign with Him, Satan’s power is limited, and at the end of the age Satan is released for a final rebellion before Christ returns, raises the dead, judges the world, and brings the new creation.

Unfortunately, you've contradicted yourself here. You just said that the 1,000 years of peace fits in before the Second Coming and then immediately turned around and contradicted yourself by saying that during the 1,000 years those who were beheaded during the Great Tribulation would be reigning with Christ. So, how do people reign with Christ for 1,000 years before He even comes? Do you understand what I'm getting at now?

 

[OMC]

Unfortunately, you've contradicted yourself here. You just said that the 1,000 years of peace fits in before the Second Coming and then immediately turned around and contradicted yourself by saying that during the 1,000 years those who were beheaded during the Great Tribulation would be reigning with Christ. So, how do people reign with Christ for 1,000 years before He even comes? Do you understand what I'm getting at now?

John is giving a heaven‑side view of the church age: Christ reigns, His martyrs reign with Him, Satan’s power is limited, and at the end of the age Satan is released for a final rebellion before Christ returns, raises the dead, judges the world, and brings the new creation.
the top one is what is happening
Revelation 20 places the “1,000 years” before the final judgment, not after the Second Coming. So it must be during the Present age, and the final period of deception and rebellion, and the tribulation cut short, time periods? No here i cut it off so you need to see my last post stating that.

 

[Psalm1]

“assuming He only comes twice” doesn’t actually address the biblical data — it just introduces a claim Scripture never makes.
The New Testament consistently speaks of Christ’s first coming (incarnation, cross, resurrection) and His second coming (appearing, return, judgment, resurrection of the dead).
Hebrews 9:28 explicitly says He “will appear a second time,” and that’s not my assumption — that’s the inspired writer’s language.
There is no third, fourth, or cyclical coming anywhere in the text.
So when I say the last days begin with His first coming and end with His second, I’m not imposing a limit; I’m simply following the pattern Scripture itself gives. If someone wants to argue for more than two comings, the burden isn’t on me — the burden is on them to show it from the text, because the text only speaks of two.

In the virgins parable the groom does not advance all the way to the brides house.
In rev 14;14 Jesus gathers from the sky.

In 1 thess 4 Jesus stops in the sky and we meet him there.
In rev 19, now we finally see a coming to earth.

3 separate vivid events.