Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Beekeeper]

There is going to be a New Heaven and a New Earth.

For what reason?

Israel's everlasting home will be the New Earth.
The Bride of Christ's home will be the New Heaven!

The Church....

In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places; but if not,
I would have told you, because I am going away to prepare a place
for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again
and receive you to myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

John 14:2-3

You seem to have accidentally forgotten something here.
The "first heaven and the first earth were passed away" (Rev 21:1) at the time of the new earth.
Peter tells us more about that:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Any non heavenly hopes we might have in the face of an event like that would be proven futile, and that would include "millennial" hopes.
A literal 1000 years is a vastly different thing than "everlasting".

During the Tribulation there will be The Antichrist.

Today? Many.

Those who persist in teaching and promoting false doctrine are antichrists.

Keep in mind.
Jesus is called the Word of God.
Antichrists do what?
They distort Jesus Christ when they promote false doctrine.

John 1:1-2​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ​

He was with God in the beginning.​

​

John 1:14​

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, ​

the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.​

​

​

. . .. .. ...​

I am assuming that by "the Tribulation" you mean the "little season" in Revelations 20:3 where it says Satan will be loosed.
I see that there is a discussion of that season in Revelations 20:7-9 where Satan deceives the nations and gathers them for battle.
I find no specific mention of "The Antichrist" in that passage, so I am assuming that you assume that Satan will do his work through one man, bearing the capitol "T" and the capital "A".

The first mention of somebody who could possibly bear that title is in 1 John:

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

So I follow the logic that he was yet to come at the time that John wrote that, meaning that I should look for him in the book of Revelation, also written by John.
If he is there he will not be going by the name "T. A." because such a name can not be found in the book.

The most popular candidate I know of for the title is the beast that comes from the sea (Revelation 13:1-10).
This guy is bad as it gets, and a real attention grabber.
The problem is that it is not just one guy, but a whole power structure, i.e. the heads, the horns, and the crowns, all deriving their power from the dragon which is Satan.

We could try to make this easier by just taking the specific beast mentioned in vs. 5-7, but we have to be very careful here.
Essentially what we are doing is picking up this beast and dropping him into the little season of Rev 20, but who told us to do that?
The Pastor?
How do we know that this beast belongs in that time?
How do we even know that we got the right beast?

There is also another candidate in Revelation 13:11 "beast coming up out of the earth".
This one tends to get less attention, but on closer inspection his implications are enormous.
He is a religious leader with a mild "lamb" appearance also referred to as a "false prophet" (Rev 16:13, 19:20 and 20:10),
and having the same "dragon" voice that gives power to the sea beast.

Very important for us to recognize that tyranny and idolatry always work together in this way.
This applies as much to your futuristic interpretation of this beast as to my first century one.

Did you notice in Revelation 13:13 and 14 that the earth beast does literal signs, wonders and miracles?
Is this not very much like the "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Consider 2 Thessalonians 2:9, "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders"

I personally think that the earth beast is very likely the one who John was referring to in 1John 2:8.
The only problem I have is the view that he should be given the capital "T.A." title and re-positioned into the little season of Rev 20.
I would also note that he is 2 persons, i.e. "two horns" not one.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Your love for Scripture shows, and I respect the decades you’ve spent in it, but the point I’m making isn’t that the Bible is unclear — it’s that the language of judgment in Isaiah, Peter, and Revelation is describing the end of the old order, not the annihilation of the created world itself.
When Isaiah says the earth “falls and will not rise again,” he’s talking about the collapse of the world’s corrupt system under covenant curse, the same way the flood “destroyed” the world without erasing the planet; when Peter says the “elements melt” and “the earth and its works are burned up,” he’s using prophetic fire‑imagery for purification and exposure, not cosmic non‑existence — which is why he immediately says we look for a new heavens and new earth where righteousness dwells, not a replacement universe created from nothing.
Revelation’s “heaven and earth fled away” is apocalyptic language for the old order passing, just like “the first things have passed away” in Revelation 21:4; it’s the end of sin, curse, death, rebellion, and corruption — not the end of creation itself.
The Bible is consistent: God judges the old world‑order, removes everything corrupted, and brings forth a renewed creation the way resurrection brings forth a renewed body — continuity of creation, discontinuity of corruption.
Im an old man too, and when i first saw this back in collage, i brought it up to my professor and you know what he told me?
" They will laugh you out of the academic world if you try to bring that out. There is a mainstream theology that's widely accepted, I suggest you stay in it".
I buried myself in the scriptures ever since. I am willing to debate, I prefer to discuss, any of this. Because my education don't mean squat compared to scripture, so let's let it talk.

“it’s that the language of judgment in Isaiah, Peter, and Revelation is describing the end of the old order, not the annihilation of the created world itself.”

Yes brother I understood your interpretation I don’t hold the same interpretation of “ what the language means “ I see it differently . But again there’s no harm in having different opinions in a discussion


“When Isaiah says the earth “falls and will not rise again,” he’s talking about the collapse of the world’s corrupt system under covenant curse,“

yes brother I understand your method it’s not one I hold

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I simply don’t interpret like you do I read that verse very differently given the rest of the biblical narrative up to and then beyond that point …..


can I ask you do you do that wo th everything ? For instance is the resurrection language also different from what it says and explains ?

for instance if I quote this

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-36, 42, 44, 49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Can you tell me how you read that ? What you gather from it ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You’re right that Jesus speaks about John in very strong terms, but the key is seeing how He uses two ideas at once.

In Matthew 11, Jesus says John is the Elijah “if you are willing to accept it,” meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner — preparing the people, calling them to repentance, and announcing the Messiah — just as Luke 1 describes at John’s birth.
Then in Matthew 17, Jesus adds that Elijah will come and restore all things, but also says Elijah has already come in the sense that John suffered rejection like Elijah did.
He’s not saying Elijah comes twice; He’s showing that John fulfills the suffering‑forerunner role, while the restoration part is still future.
Malachi’s prophecy includes both — turning hearts and preparing for the Day of the Lord — and Jesus separates them so people won’t confuse John’s ministry with God’s final restoration.
So yes, John is the Elijah who was to come in preparing the way, but the full restoration Malachi spoke of is still ahead.
This doesn’t deny the new covenant; it just keeps the roles clear, as Jesus explains.

“In Matthew 11, Jesus says John is the Elijah “if you are willing to accept it,” meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner


…… what !? how does that calculation work your saying this “if you are willing to accept it,” means this ? meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner?
John is the forerunner for the messiah he’s the fulfillment of that prophecy …….
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ( John )

and the Lord, ( Jesus ) whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this also is about John

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judæa, and saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


just like this is about John the end of the prophets and what Israel’s hopes we’re waiting for

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why im saying that

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure the reasoning to dispute what’s there what tells us “ John really isn’t Elijah who was said to come … that will happen later “ it seems almost like we’re just not willing to hear it

 

[Beekeeper]

You’re right that Jesus speaks about John in very strong terms, but the key is seeing how He uses two ideas at once.

“In Matthew 11, Jesus says John is the Elijah “if you are willing to accept it,” meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner


…… what !? how does that calculation work your saying this “if you are willing to accept it,” means this ? meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner?
John is the forerunner for the messiah he’s the fulfillment of that prophecy …….
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ( John )

and the Lord, ( Jesus ) whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this also is about John

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judæa, and saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


just like this is about John the end of the prophets and what Israel’s hopes we’re waiting for

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why im saying that

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure the reasoning to dispute what’s there what tells us “ John really isn’t Elijah who was said to come … that will happen later “ it seems almost like we’re just not willing to hear it

The reason people throughout the ages have not been willing to hear the words of Jesus concerning John (Mathew 11:3-5) has nothing to do with lack of clear explanation by Jesus.
Jesus in no way failed to restore His kingdom at the time either, so not accepting His words on that basis is also unreasonable.
The problem is that people are earthly minded,
and they can not accept that the hope of Israel is to be fulfilled in a kingdom that is not earthly.

 

[Beekeeper]

No, but by John's clearly described eschatology (not theology ROFL).

And that of Christ Jesus, Paul, and Peter.
BTW, Paul NEVER, not at any time, declared that he, or any other believer, would be going thru the 70th week tribulation.

BTW, the name of the book is Revelation. Not as you invariably say: Revelation"S".....

And it is perfect well understood by all legit scholars to have been written in the early 90's AD.

But as for YOU, by all means suffer in abject horror thru what is coming upon the world if that is what you desire.

And so it goes for the deniers of grace. They get what they ask for and the wages so earned.

Did I mention that the clock is rapidly ticking towards midnight? Eschatologically, this is the "darkness", the "night" of the tribulation judgements coming upon the WHOLE EARTH.

Of course these prescient keywords are meaningless to you. But don't think for a moment that others share your stygian ignorance.

Luk 21:35 - For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Yes, ἀποκάλυψις not ἀποκαλύψεις no problem I accept.

Paul and Peter did not say any unbeliever was going to go through Daniels 70th week either, so I guess I am safe there.

In regards to that "little season" of Revelations 20, I just figured that I could die before I get here or even during it.
For all they say it could not turn out that bad after all.
Maybe at least there are set hours and coffee breaks.
Sure, there would be head-choppers getting around, but I have seen people go through illnesses that would make beheading seem like a cup of tea.

If I miss the next boat and go to hell I figured that I could have a lot of fun there mucking up the atmosphere by praising Jesus.

Regarding the rapidly ticking clock, I hope these thoughts do not cause you to abandon ordinary compassion and respect for others, or to abandon the younger generation.
Remember that Jesus asked us to be salt and light in this world.

Ever since the Titanic people have been declaring the pre trib rapture to be imminent in response to every exciting news story, always quoting the same prophesies.
That would be fine if the rapture happened when they said, but the problem is that they just forget everything they have said after it does not, and pretend that is ok.
It is important to know that bearing false witness in the name of God is offensive to Him.

Please, if it so happens that the rapture does not come as quickly as you tell others, have the decency to apologize for your mistake.
If it does, of course you are exonerated.

Have you ever thought about how good it would be if we all had absolutely no idea when the end would come?
The great news is that we don't!
Mathew 24:24.

 

[OMC]

“it’s that the language of judgment in Isaiah, Peter, and Revelation is describing the end of the old order, not the annihilation of the created world itself.”

Yes brother I understood your interpretation I don’t hold the same interpretation of “ what the language means “ I see it differently . But again there’s no harm in having different opinions in a discussion


“When Isaiah says the earth “falls and will not rise again,” he’s talking about the collapse of the world’s corrupt system under covenant curse,“

yes brother I understand your method it’s not one I hold

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I simply don’t interpret like you do I read that verse very differently given the rest of the biblical narrative up to and then beyond that point …..


can I ask you do you do that wo th everything ? For instance is the resurrection language also different from what it says and explains ?

for instance if I quote this

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-36, 42, 44, 49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Can you tell me how you read that ? What you gather from it ?

Honestly, if you're willing to ignore the basic principles of the Greek language, there's really no point in continuing. I understand your stance, but it's like saying you don't believe in the grammar of English. There is nothing to share after that point as you are set in your way and no one is going to change that.

 

[HeIsHere]

I stated people using it and don't list it as AI and try and pass it off as their own writings. My frustration is conversing with an AI and not an actual person. But in this scenario, I stated I was using it so maybe they'd understand my point better since I couldn't figure out another way to explain it.

I understand your view better and agree.
Using AI to support explain one's view is one thing but to make it your voice in a discussion defeats the whole purpose of human "discussion!"

 

[Ceph]

Malachi 4:8
“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”
Luke 1:13But the angel said to him, “Don’t be afraid, Zacharias, because your request has been heard. Your wife, Elizabeth, will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. ... 17He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to prepare a people prepared for the Lord.”

Since our Lord the Christ has risen from the grave and the word of God has been widely proclaimed throughout the earth, the earth has not been cursed to the degree it is now, since the people in it have forgotten God. Faith in Jesus has been on the decline, and the leaders of the nations are plotting to overthrow it entirely.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The reason people throughout the ages have not been willing to hear the words of Jesus concerning John (Mathew 11:3-5) has nothing to do with lack of clear explanation by Jesus.
Jesus in no way failed to restore His kingdom at the time either, so not accepting His words on that basis is also unreasonable.
The problem is that people are earthly minded,
and they can not accept that the hope of Israel is to be fulfilled in a kingdom that is not earthly.

Amen well said ..it’s the lack of people even wanting to hear what he had to say and accepting it as clear . Surely he spoke in parables often but they should be clear lessons the apostles also became much more clear and descriptive of Jesus teachings . But often there are factors regarding israel because of Gods frustration with them rebelling in the ot and what he had said to them

have you even read this and then studied it’s roots in prophecy ?

“And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest at any time they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And should understand with their heart, And should be converted, and I should heal them.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They were made so that they wouldn’t understand and perceive when the messiah came … so he would be rejected by them and sent to all humanity them included . It’s a great study nt and old

“For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain. And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes have they closed; Lest they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should be converted, And I should heal them.

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:20, 23-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can find this factor a lot in the prophets even indirectly in other prophetic visions dreams and writings in the ot the factor of israel
Not being able to hear

“Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭5:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But also the prophecy being referred to directly

“And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, and the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed ( the original body of Christ we read about ) shall be the substance thereof.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6:9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The remnant are the Israelites who accepted him remember alot of isralites did believe and became the early church and then carried the same message to the gentiles through the great commission

It really becomes clear as it’s studied

“And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them. For thou art not sent to a people of a strange speech and of an hard language, but to the house of Israel; ( Jesus was sent only to them forst ) not to many people of a strange speech and of an hard language, whose words thou canst not understand. Surely, had I sent thee to them, they would have hearkened unto thee. But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭3:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Just a couple places there but There’s reasons israel couldn’t hear him but a select remnant did it’s laid in the prophets.

But remember if israel had accepted the messiah they wouldn’t have caused him to be crucified they would have all believed and followed him and he wouldn’t have been sent to the world with salvstion

The operation of things happen y the design of God in his foreknowledge not personal responsability but I’m speaking of the overall plan and the steps he took to redeem mankind through Christs sacrifice and what he’s still doing and will do in bringing his glorious promises to pass

the lack of being willing to hear and accept what he’s saying as truth and light and life like he says it is , really is an issue it’s never been what Jesus or the apostles wrote or taught it’s what the Hester is willing to accept as the truth

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Honestly, if you're willing to ignore the basic principles of the Greek language, there's really no point in continuing. I understand your stance, but it's like saying you don't believe in the grammar of English. There is nothing to share after that point as you are set in your way and no one is going to change that.

there's really no point in continuing.

 

[cv5]

I have said it, not just 2 group, but 4 and more groups.
Bride
Guests
Servant
Lamb
Shepherd
.....

1) Feast of Trumpets - regathering of ISRAEL, and heralding of the approaching Day of the Lord

2) Day of Atonement - repentance of ISRAEL, that which triggers the Second Coming for ISRAEL

3) Feast of Tabernacles - Christ Jesus TABERNACLING with men, ISRAEL recommissioned, JERUSALEM being the headquarters of the new age government dispensation.

All of these are COMING ATTRACTIONS so noted here and in innumerable other citations.

Act 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

[cv5]

Malachi 4:8
“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”
Luke 1:13But the angel said to him, “Don’t be afraid, Zacharias, because your request has been heard. Your wife, Elizabeth, will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. ... 17He will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to prepare a people prepared for the Lord.”

Since our Lord the Christ has risen from the grave and the word of God has been widely proclaimed throughout the earth, the earth has not been cursed to the degree it is now, since the people in it have forgotten God. Faith in Jesus has been on the decline, and the leaders of the nations are plotting to overthrow it entirely.

We futurist dispensationalists have zero problems concatenating these two concepts.
Simple as pie really.......

Jhn 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Mar 9:12
And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

 

[cv5]

Yes, ἀποκάλυψις not ἀποκαλύψεις no problem I accept.

Paul and Peter did not say any unbeliever was going to go through Daniels 70th week either, so I guess I am safe there.

In regards to that "little season" of Revelations 20, I just figured that I could die before I get here or even during it.
For all they say it could not turn out that bad after all.
Maybe at least there are set hours and coffee breaks.
Sure, there would be head-choppers getting around, but I have seen people go through illnesses that would make beheading seem like a cup of tea.

If I miss the next boat and go to hell I figured that I could have a lot of fun there mucking up the atmosphere by praising Jesus.

Regarding the rapidly ticking clock, I hope these thoughts do not cause you to abandon ordinary compassion and respect for others, or to abandon the younger generation.
Remember that Jesus asked us to be salt and light in this world.

Ever since the Titanic people have been declaring the pre trib rapture to be imminent in response to every exciting news story, always quoting the same prophesies.
That would be fine if the rapture happened when they said, but the problem is that they just forget everything they have said after it does not, and pretend that is ok.
It is important to know that bearing false witness in the name of God is offensive to Him.

Please, if it so happens that the rapture does not come as quickly as you tell others, have the decency to apologize for your mistake.
If it does, of course you are exonerated.

Have you ever thought about how good it would be if we all had absolutely no idea when the end would come?
The great news is that we don't!
Mathew 24:24.

"declaring the pre trib rapture to be imminent in response to every exciting news story"

Such as the return of the Nation Israel on May, 14th 1948?
Yes, this news is definitely exciting. And truly seismic and should be a wake up call to everyone on planet earth.

Moreso the Church who has been blindsided with bogus eschatology for millennia.

 

[Beekeeper]

We futurist dispensationalists have zero problems concatenating these two concepts.
Simple as pie really.......

Jhn 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Mar 9:12
And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mark 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Futurist dispensationalists have zero problems changing the meaning of anything to suit themselves.
Simple as pie for them.

 

[Beekeeper]

"declaring the pre trib rapture to be imminent in response to every exciting news story"

Such as the return of the Nation Israel on May, 14th 1948?
Yes, this news is definitely exciting. And truly seismic and should be a wake up call to everyone on planet earth.

Moreso the Church who has been blindsided with bogus eschatology for millennia.

Yes, the church has been particularly blindsided with bogus eschatology since May, 14th 1948.
Yet the only Biblical earthly nation of Israel existed under the Mosaic covenant.
Which Biblical covenant was this one founded under?
By what authority do they commit genocide?
Clearly a political move done by the will of man.

 

[Beekeeper]

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

John was not a reincarnation of Elijah, so what did he have in common?
The "spirit and power" (Luke 1:17) of Elijah.

 

[cv5]

Mark 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Futurist dispensationalists have zero problems changing the meaning of anything to suit themselves.
Simple as pie for them.

Welp. Somebody is confused and in denial. Or vice versa.
In fact John the Baptist had already been beheaded by the time Christ spoke Matthew 17.....

Of course we futurist dispensationalists have all of this harmonized to impeccable perfection.
We sleep well at night too.

[Mat 17:2-3, 10-12 KJV]
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. ...
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Jhn 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Luk 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Rev 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

[Churchgoer]

Mark 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Futurist dispensationalists have zero problems changing the meaning of anything to suit themselves.
Simple as pie for them.

Yes, they changed everything. But no worries, their twist won't last long.

Such a simple biblical message centered around God, they made it centered around a secular ethnic group. Really ridiculous, and blasphemous.

But their choice.

 

[Aaron56]

You’re right that Jesus speaks about John in very strong terms, but the key is seeing how He uses two ideas at once.

“In Matthew 11, Jesus says John is the Elijah “if you are willing to accept it,” meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner


…… what !? how does that calculation work your saying this “if you are willing to accept it,” means this ? meaning John takes on the role of the forerunner?
John is the forerunner for the messiah he’s the fulfillment of that prophecy …….
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ( John )

and the Lord, ( Jesus ) whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this also is about John

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judæa, and saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


just like this is about John the end of the prophets and what Israel’s hopes we’re waiting for

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why im saying that

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure the reasoning to dispute what’s there what tells us “ John really isn’t Elijah who was said to come … that will happen later “ it seems almost like we’re just not willing to hear it

I mean, yeah. It's right there.

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he (John the Baptist) is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

Who in their right mind would say otherwise?

 

[Aaron56]

Yes, they changed everything. But no worries, their twist won't last long.

Such a simple biblical message centered around God, they made it centered around a secular ethnic group. Really ridiculous, and blasphemous.

But their choice.

I agree with you.

But their choice is not neutral.

Wait until they ascribe the title "enemy" to anyone who doesn't agree with them (it's already happening). Look at what they currently label "acceptable" by the hands of Israelis because "they are God's chosen people". "What's a little killing when God likes you better than most?"!

Their consciences are already seared.