Replacement theology? Yes or No.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I mean, yeah. It's right there.

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he (John the Baptist) is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

Who in their right mind would say otherwise?
They want to twist everything. Go figure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aaron56
I agree with you.

But their choice is not neutral.

Wait until they ascribe the title "enemy" to anyone who doesn't agree with them (it's already happening). Look at what they currently label "acceptable" by the hands of Israelis because "they are God's chosen people". "What's a little killing when God likes you better than most?"!

Their consciences are already seared.
All under God's sovereign plan. Joseph s brothers meant it evil, but God meant it good. God have big plan. We just want to make sure we obey God.
 
I understand your view better and agree.
Using AI to support explain one's view is one thing but to make it your voice in a discussion defeats the whole purpose of human "discussion!"
I think a lot of people have AI fatigue.There's a bunch of christian AI channels that popped up during the Ai boom and they would pump out videos with scripture errors, or have AI testimonies that would mix the God of the bible with another god or some other type of error, and they didn't care cause they only wanted to get the next video out asap.Ai as gotten a lot better now and it's starting to get harder to spot some AI channels.
It comes off as soulless to me even though I would probably use some AI for help as well.
It just got me thinking recently if some people even bother to read a reply, or do they just copy paste it into chatgpt and ask for "errors" based on what they told chat gpt how they view scripture.
Is that even possible?Can you prompt your views on scripture to AI and ask it to correct a copy paste?
I also believe that they will use AI at some point if it's not already happening to use on Christians and make them not grow spiritually.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere and oldman
I mean, yeah. It's right there.

"For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he (John the Baptist) is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

Who in their right mind would say otherwise?
Always good to see your active and read your usually deep and informative posts brother


I think it’s just through interpreting based on what view we already hold . Sometimes we can all do that well I mean I don’t know everyone lol but sometimes we see things different because we already have differing conclusions in some areas even while agreeing on Jesus dying and being raised being the lord and savior ect

Bit over time we spend in church he’s and in studies with others or even alone with the lord we develope convictions aboit certain things whatever they may be , and then this effects how we view even obvious scriptire that would correct our view but instead we explain why it doesn’t mean what it says

i think tbat can happen I know it has to me over the years more than once . I was in my early 20s a grace alone nothin g else can ever apply believer like sometimes I vehemently disagree with now in my 70s . Now days some of the things I believed then aren’t at all what I do now after prayer and study and time passing it’s changed alot from then …… but often what view I held would sort of dictate how I would “ interpret everything that I read about whatever the subject was

I’ve probably posted a ramble to confuse here but lol brother you know me

good to speak God sure does love you
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aaron56
All under God's sovereign plan. Joseph s brothers meant it evil, but God meant it good. God have big plan. We just want to make sure we obey God.
I like this a lot

“We just want to make sure we obey God.”

thats our role and the right mind to have but even moreso tbrough learning and obeying His ways in the gospel we are becoming more like him so it becomes not “ obeying a command “ but becomes part of a new nature he’s developing in us as we begin to participate actively and apply our hearts and minds and lives because of his amazing promise to us

Through obedience we become more like we are meant to be ourselves and eventually we feel the changes and see the evidence in our actions and lives
 
  • Like
Reactions: Churchgoer
Yes, they changed everything. But no worries, their twist won't last long.

Such a simple biblical message centered around God, they made it centered around a secular ethnic group. Really ridiculous, and blasphemous.

But their choice.
Actually, the biblical message of God is fundamentally one of salvation and redemption.

Jesus’ very name means “YHWH saves”—salvation.

And that message of salvation is extended also, and quite explicitly, to His brethren according to the flesh—the sons of Jacob.

Furthermore, God’s future extension of grace to Israel is so thoroughly embedded in biblical prophecy that the text is virtually saturated with promises of their eventual repentance, restoration, grace, and supplication. Zechariah 12:10 could hardly be clearer: God will pour upon the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem “the spirit of grace and of supplications,” and they will look upon the One whom they pierced. Paul likewise declares that Israel remains beloved because of the fathers and that “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Rom. 11:28–29).

This is not making the Bible “centered around a secular ethnic group.” It is recognizing that the God-centered biblical message includes God's sovereign faithfulness to the unconditional promises He Himself made to the descendants of Jacob.

Why, then, kick against the goads regarding Israel in particular, when Scripture goes to such extraordinary lengths to establish God's future grace toward them?
 
Actually, the biblical message of God is fundamentally one of salvation and redemption.

Jesus’ very name means “YHWH saves”—salvation.

And that message of salvation is extended also, and quite explicitly, to His brethren according to the flesh—the sons of Jacob.

Furthermore, God’s future extension of grace to Israel is so thoroughly embedded in biblical prophecy that the text is virtually saturated with promises of their eventual repentance, restoration, grace, and supplication. Zechariah 12:10 could hardly be clearer: God will pour upon the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem “the spirit of grace and of supplications,” and they will look upon the One whom they pierced. Paul likewise declares that Israel remains beloved because of the fathers and that “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Rom. 11:28–29).

This is not making the Bible “centered around a secular ethnic group.” It is recognizing that the God-centered biblical message includes God's sovereign faithfulness to the unconditional promises He Himself made to the descendants of Jacob.

Why, then, kick against the goads regarding Israel in particular, when Scripture goes to such extraordinary lengths to establish God's future grace toward them?
All you trying to prove is to support secular Israel state, support their bombing, robbery, murdering.

No one is denying ethnic Israel s salvation, from Peter Paul Mary till now, all have chance to return to God.

Are you saying right now we should support murdering, sexual immorality.... as a good Christian?
 
All you trying to prove is to support secular Israel state, support their bombing, robbery, murdering.

No one is denying ethnic Israel s salvation, from Peter Paul Mary till now, all have chance to return to God.

Are you saying right now we should support murdering, sexual immorality.... as a good Christian?
Are you saying that the mission field needs to be abandoned?
Well, you may do so. But God will not as regards His people Israel.
 
Are you saying that the mission field needs to be abandoned?
Well, you may do so. But God will not as regards His people Israel.
Mission field is to spread gospel, not immorality.
Joseph s brothers meant it evil, but God meant it good.
The jew leaders and crowd put Jesus on cross meant it evil, but God meant it good.
God do not call you to be Joseph s brother, nor the jew leaders to crucify Jesus.

Paul didn't go to Greece, Italy to cheer on murdering, sexual immorality, and call that mission field.
 
Are you saying that the mission field needs to be abandoned?
Well, you may do so. But God will not as regards His people Israel.
God s people is whoever in the blood covenant with Jesus, from ot to nt. Not by any other blood, only Jesus Blood!!!
If you can't even get this right, then don't call yourself Christian.
 
Welp. Somebody is confused and in denial. Or vice versa.
In fact John the Baptist had already been beheaded by the time Christ spoke Matthew 17.....

Of course we futurist dispensationalists have all of this harmonized to impeccable perfection.
We sleep well at night too.

[Mat 17:2-3, 10-12 KJV]
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. ...
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Jhn 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

Luk 1:17
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Rev 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

It seems that reincarnation back into earthly flesh is foreign to the ways of God.
How did you get from Elijah to the two witnesses of Revelations 11:3?
As far as I know the Bible has not told us their names.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrimshope
Mission field is to spread gospel, not immorality.
Joseph s brothers meant it evil, but God meant it good.
The jew leaders and crowd put Jesus on cross meant it evil, but God meant it good.
God do not call you to be Joseph s brother, nor the jew leaders to crucify Jesus.

Paul didn't go to Greece, Italy to cheer on murdering, sexual immorality, and call that mission field.

Good example.
The Romans lives under tyranny and committed heinous acts of slaughter.
Paul knew that God desired their salvation and did not hold back from telling them the truth.
 
It seems that reincarnation back into earthly flesh is foreign to the ways of God.
How did you get from Elijah to the two witnesses of Revelations 11:3?
As far as I know the Bible has not told us their names.
If you look at the verse here

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses,

and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, ( 3.5 years ) clothed in sackcloth.

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:

and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Revelation” in the actual title is “ apacalypse “ when we see this imagery we’re supposed to know scripture beforehand so for instance

“These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. “

john is referring to this prophetic imagery developed in zechariah

“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. ….

…….And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:2-3, 12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you see the lord of the earth in his glory with two others standing by him in the gospel elijah and Moses

“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So then you have these segments of the verses there in johns apacalypse

a thousand two hundred and threescore days, ( 3.5 years”

This verse” fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:”

and this verse . power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: “


elijah . who during his ministry caused it not to rain for three and a half years while he prophecied and he also spoke and called down fire from heaven to devour gods enemies at the altar of thier false gods.

these are identifiers for understanding the apacalyptic form of johns visions which became his writings . Moses is also identified here

“power over waters to turn them to blood,

and to smite the earth with all plagues,”


Moses turned water to blood during his ministry and called down many plagues upon the people.

more is that Elijah is sort of king of the prophets before God, and Moses gave the law. Which are two witnesses of Jesus Christ and the gospel

“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. …., which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18, 21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Revelation is probably the most interpreted book in the Bible which comes to different conclusions and theories this is just one but I feel it’s pretty weighty with the scripture or…..a coincidence but what if we could do that same thing ( find in the ot and gospel the imagery shown in johns vision ) with the entire book of revelation ? Then coincidence would be hard to argue

just some thoughts there to consider
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beekeeper
God s people is whoever in the blood covenant with Jesus, from ot to nt. Not by any other blood, only Jesus Blood!!!
If you can't even get this right, then don't call yourself Christian.
That is exactly how the Nation Israel will be saved.

How could you dare think otherwise?
 
Mission field is to spread gospel, not immorality.
Joseph s brothers meant it evil, but God meant it good.
The jew leaders and crowd put Jesus on cross meant it evil, but God meant it good.
God do not call you to be Joseph s brother, nor the jew leaders to crucify Jesus.

Paul didn't go to Greece, Italy to cheer on murdering, sexual immorality, and call that mission field.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We know this.

So why do you choose to single out the Jews declaring them unredeemable?
When the Biblical fact is that prophecy is inerrant when it says that their salvation is certain and inevitable?
 
God s people is whoever in the blood covenant with Jesus, from ot to nt. Not by any other blood, only Jesus Blood!!!
If you can't even get this right, then don't call yourself Christian.
Are you aware of the certain fact that the Nation Israel will only come to repentance after the Church Age has ended?

And that their repentance is the trigger for the Second Coming?

And that the primary PURPOSE of Second Coming is to DELIVER the Jews from extermination at the hands of the armies of the beast?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LTTexan
If you look at the verse here

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses,

and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, ( 3.5 years ) clothed in sackcloth.

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:

and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Revelation” in the actual title is “ apacalypse “ when we see this imagery we’re supposed to know scripture beforehand so for instance

“These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. “

john is referring to this prophetic imagery developed in zechariah

“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. ….

…….And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:2-3, 12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then you see the lord of the earth in his glory with two others standing by him in the gospel elijah and Moses

“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So then you have these segments of the verses there in johns apacalypse

a thousand two hundred and threescore days, ( 3.5 years”

This verse” fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies:”

and this verse . power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: “


elijah . who during his ministry caused it not to rain for three and a half years while he prophecied and he also spoke and called down fire from heaven to devour gods enemies at the altar of thier false gods.

these are identifiers for understanding the apacalyptic form of johns visions which became his writings . Moses is also identified here

“power over waters to turn them to blood,

and to smite the earth with all plagues,”


Moses turned water to blood during his ministry and called down many plagues upon the people.

more is that Elijah is sort of king of the prophets before God, and Moses gave the law. Which are two witnesses of Jesus Christ and the gospel

“And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. …., which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18, 21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Revelation is probably the most interpreted book in the Bible which comes to different conclusions and theories this is just one but I feel it’s pretty weighty with the scripture or…..a coincidence but what if we could do that same thing ( find in the ot and gospel the imagery shown in johns vision ) with the entire book of revelation ? Then coincidence would be hard to argue

just some thoughts there to consider

Thank you for that.
You have established at least there is a connection between Moses and Elijah in the signs that they performed and the things that they did.
That does not tell me however that they were Moses and Elijah in the flesh.
The Moses connection is interesting, because Jerusalem in Revelation 11:8 is "spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt".

Deuteronomy 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

This is just a small sample of the multitude of comparisons between apostate Israel and Egypt in the Bible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrimshope
Thank you for that.
You have established at least there is a connection between Moses and Elijah in the signs that they performed and the things that they did.
That does not tell me however that they were Moses and Elijah in the flesh.
The Moses connection is interesting, because Jerusalem in Revelation 11:8 is "spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt".

Deuteronomy 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

This is just a small sample of the multitude of comparisons between apostate Israel and Egypt in the Bible.

“That does not tell me however that they were Moses and Elijah in the flesh.”

Yes it wasn’t my argument I was just showing you how people come to that conclusion . That it’s Elijah ……. My position isn’t that eLohan returns in the end in the flesh with Moses or anything . I believe johns coming fulfilled the prophecy of Elijah coming

I think my view might be that Elijah represents the prophets , and Moses represents the law which are two witnesses of Jesus Christ but it’s not a conviction
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beekeeper
He doesn't like to receive correction and probably missed this verse in his Bible Study:

Proverbs 29:11 A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise person quietly holds it back."

So everyone has stepped back to let him make a fool of himself. :)


🕊️
Do you think you sound charitable there in that last comment?

"So everyone has stepped back to let him make a fool of himself. "

And then you :) ?