The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.
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Very good examples: Lot was safe as the city was destroyed; and no matter the voracity of Herrod, baby Jesus remained alive. In both instances the people who were saved were led by the Spirit of God in the earth.
If I'm still alive when it happens I'll check this website (if possible). Send me a PM and I'll see if I can help you through your panic.
But, I'll advise you to start preparing now, not as a "prepper", but as someone who relies on the Lord in all things. It would help to submit yourself to a mature believer, an elder, who understands these things.
The best time for preparing for a house fire is not when you smell the smoke...
The Church has been in the Great Tribulation since the death of Jesus. He was the first martyr. The Church will be in the Great Tribulation until the Second coming of Jesus Christ.
La la la
Just pretend they stayed, as you dishonestly depicted.
We all could be rounded up pretrib into some massive out door detentions.
Then when we go up right in front of you in the pretrib rapture, you will continue your rejection of Gods word, in some spiteful hollering, "ha ha ha...that is not the rapture"
You got it wrong.
But to claim Lot, and Jesus, stayed, in those verses, is outright rebellion against Gods word.
We must be cautious about what version of the end times we have been taught. Many prominent and faithful Bible teachers have taught us that the Great Tribulation is 3-1/2 years long, and though I believed this for a long time, once I read and studied the passage for myself, I realized that what they told me was a mistake.
So let's return to the passage to see the timeline that Jesus laid out.
Here is a crisp, teaching‑ready paragraph that summarizes Matthew 24:15 in terms of the Great Tribulation exactly as you’ve framed it—anchored in Jesus’ own chronology, not later systems:
In Matthew 24:15, Jesus identifies the beginning point of the Great Tribulation: the moment when Jerusalem is invaded and the Temple is desecrated and destroyed. He is not describing a distant, future seven‑year period but the concrete historical crisis that would fall upon the city. When the “abomination of desolation” stands in the holy place—language pointing to the assault on Jerusalem and the ruin of the Temple—Jesus says that this is the signal that the Great Tribulation has begun. In other words, the Tribulation is not triggered by a future Antichrist but by the catastrophic judgment that befell Jerusalem in the first century, initiating the long era of suffering and upheaval that continues until His return.
In Matthew 24:29–31, Jesus explains exactly how the Great Tribulation will end. After the long period of suffering that began with Jerusalem’s fall, Jesus says the Tribulation reaches its climax “immediately after” those days when the celestial signs appear—the darkened sun, the failing moon, and the shaking of the powers of heaven. These cosmic disturbances announce the Second Coming of Christ, when the Son of Man appears in glory and sends out His angels to gather His elect “from the four winds.” This gathering is not the church being raptured but the restoration of Israel, the regathering of the scattered Jewish people into their land as the prophets promised. In Jesus’ own timeline, the Great Tribulation begins with Jerusalem’s destruction and ends with Israel’s return and the visible coming of the Messiah.
Mat 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Your House is left unto you desolate.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Your House is left unto you desolate.
I'm not sure you specifically answered Psalm1's question. Are you just generally saying that Israel should be considered under "Great Tribulation" until Jesus returns to earth, including the seal and bowl judgements in the future? Do you acknowledge that seal and bowl judgements are future events?
I have never associated the Seal and Bowl Judgments with the Great Tribulation. Maybe I should. I am certain that I understand what Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse concerning the Great Tribulation: that it would begin with the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem, and it would end at the Second Coming of Jesus.
That said, I believe the Scroll and the Seals symbolically describe what took place during the Roman-Jewish wars of AD70. I also believe that the Trumpets are currently happening today.
I need further study on the subject because I should go back through the book of Revelation and sort out when God is actually judging and when man or Satan is oppressing.
It seems to me that Evangelical Christians have mistakenly associated the Great Tribulation with the activities described in Revelation chapters 11 through 14. Perhaps this is where they got the idea that the GT would be 42 months in duration.
The debate over pre- post- Tribulation is centered on those passages, I think. (I could be wrong) The book of Revelation is hard to understand.
The reason the prophetic books are so hard to decipher is because all of them speak of near future and events and far future events all in the same chapter. It's called "prophetic telescoping". Many prophecies have a double fulfillment where history will repeat itself, but on a much larger scale the second time around.
While the seal and bowl judgements are similar to the 10 plagues inflicted on Egypt at the time of the Exodus, there are only 7 seal and bowl judgements that will take place at the end of the age, when indeed, there will be an Anti-Christ coming to deceive the world on a much larger scale than we've ever seen before, including the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.
No.
It begins at the seals.
Daniel said it was 7 years.
The trib is Jacob's trouble.
It is not churches trouble.
The Church is gathered up at the start of the trib.
ALL RAPTURE VERSES are normal life and commerce.
Your model is opposite.
Check your facts.
Daniel does not say that the GT will be 7 years.
Revelation 7 says that the GT involves the church.
Jacob's trouble is The Day of the Lord, which is not the GT.
Jesus says that the GT begins at the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem
Revelation 14: The Rapture takes place around the time of the Day of the Lord.
It is a 7 yr time period.
In the middle is the AOD.
Call it anything you like.
But it begins as the AC arrives.
Hi @Roger316 . I believe the Time of Jacob's Trouble was the 70 AD event. I found it interesting that you said it's the Day of the Lord. Is this something you are firm on? If you have some verses to share, I would love to see them. Thanks.
Wow. No one has ever asked me this question before. I wish I could take you through my thought process.
After several long discussions about the Day of the Lord with believers online, I decided I needed to learn more about it. I did a deep-dive study on the subject; I learned a lot, and I created several YouTube Videos.It was during my study of the book of Isaiah, Joel and Malachi that I came to the conclusion that Jesus addresses two distinct moments in Israel's future when Israel will be required to flee out of danger: 1) Leave the city of Jerusalem and 2) Return to the city of Jerusalem.
I decided that since Jesus Second Coming and the Day of the Lord is associated with Celestial Signs, Matthew 24:29–30, Mark 13:24–26, Luke 21:25–27, Revelation 6:12–17, Joel 2:30–31 That the Day of the Lord has not taken place yet.
That's a real rough summary.
When I talked about "facts" earlier I was talking about what the text presents to the reader. This is different that what we think the text means. We won't always agree on what the text means but can't we agree on what the text says? Daniel 9 doesn't talk about a tribulation of any kind. Daniel 9:27 talks about destruction, not tribulation.
Tribulation and destruction aren’t the same thing in Scripture, and keeping them distinct helps clarify passages like Daniel 9:27. Tribulation refers to pressure, distress, and suffering experienced by God’s people, while destruction refers to the ruin or desolation poured out in judgment. Daniel 9:27 is not describing tribulation but the decreed destruction of Jerusalem—its desolations, its collapse, its ruin. Tribulation is what the righteous endure; destruction is what falls on the wicked or on a city under judgment. Confusing these categories leads to misreading the text, but distinguishing them makes Daniel’s meaning far more precise.